Hi

I am thinking of buying Humax Freesat HD PVR today but I read some boxes had problem tuning in CH4 HD as it is on EB1 not on Astra.

So I have been trying to add CH4 HD, (12607 V 27500 3/4), on Sky HD box to test the signal before buying Humax but Sky HD box says No Signal Found for CH4 HD.

I have tried to add channels option and even went into installer menu on Sky HD box for manual tuning but still no luck!

CHD is on Sky HD Epg and perfect picture! but I can't find or add it manually to make sure Foxsat will tune it in.

I have just tried CBS Reality on installer menu which is also on EB1 and found it with 30%signal strenth 95% signal quality.

Any advice how I can check Signal Strenth/quality for CH4 HD before buying Humax PVR?

Thanks.

If the dish is aligned, it will find it, sound like your dish is slightly out of alignment.

thanks but what I don't understand is how I can watch CH4 HD & other SD channels that's on Eurobird 1 & but can't tune in CH4 HD

Very strange indeed. I guess I shouldn't buy the freesat PVR until CH4 HD moves to the new satellite & transponder.

Strange thing is I just connected the old Sky box, no pvr - no hd, basic box and on channel 140 it says call 08442 xxx to receive this HD Channel.

Then I tried to tune in on this box ((12607 V 27500 3/4), still no joy. No signal found!

Theres 2 satellites that freesat gets its channels from, the dish should be pointed between them to pick up both. However if its not pointing there, you have have perfect reception from one satellite but not get anything from the other one.

Its not freesat, its your dish direction that is the problem. You can get astra but not eurobird.

A strange one this, you could try 11224V SR27500 FEC2/3 on the Sky HD box for NHK World TV HD from the same Eurobird satellite.
This is a DVB-S1 transmission and should come in fine, I'm not sure whether it's possible to manually tune a DVB-S2 transmission on a Sky HD box.
The old Sky SD box will not tune to Channel 4HD manually because the transmission is in DVB-S2 which the SD box is incompatible with and will not see it as a signal.

To clear up some of these misconceptions; Sky HD STB's won't manually tune in to S2 modulated TP's via the 'Add Channels' so regardless of signal level incoming to the Sky Rx you won't see it. If your getting 4HD ok on your Sky Rx generally I'd say you'll be fine on a Foxsat. Expect 4hd to move to 1N once it's launched which will deliver a whopping field strength, probably stronger than 2D's so won't be an issue anyway.

I seem to get other channels from Eurobird.


I can confirm I get NHK World HD without any problem. The problem seems to be CH4 HD, actually it is the best HD picture I have ever seen.

I can watch CH4 HD but I can't tune & find any signal on Sky HD box.

by the way what is a DVB-S2 transmission please?

Standard definition?


Do you know when we should expect 4HD to move to 1N?

Other thing is when I had Humax Freeview PVR, it had sensetive tuners, Do you know if Foxsat PVR also have sensetive tuners?

What seems to be strange is that I can watch CH4 HD but can't find a signal to add manually!

DVB-S2 is an improved efficiency way of transmitting the signal (Digital Video Broascasting - Satellte Version 2). It allows more channels or better quality within the available bandwidth. Freesat HD boxes are DVB-S2 capable. The BBC recently changed it's HD channels to S2 just prior to Wimbledon.

SD sat boxes only support the older DVB-S standard.

A similar standard is used for Freeview HD (DVB-T2) The T stands for terrestrial.

CH4-HD caused a few problems for some at launch

See here

http://www.stevelarkins.freeuk.com/c...-no-signal.htm

Thanks for the link, clearly I am not the only one who can't find the C4 HD signal!

It is bizarre that Sky box displays C4 HD on EPG & on screen but can’t find the signal. C4 should move its HD channel to Astra where the signal is much stronger than Eurobird.

There's no space on Astra 2D hence the use of EB1. Because the epg comes from a different transponder (and may be satellite) because the programme data is there does not mean you can watch the actual transmissions. If you have a properly aligned dish in the UK there's no problem in viewing CH$-HD

The programme data & EPG is there and I can watch CH4 HD on channel 140. The problem seems to be that Sky HD box can't tune & find CH4 HD when I try to add it.

It says no signal found even though I can watch actual transmission on channel 140

This has already been answered further up the thread by M60 and grahamlthompson. YOU CANNOT MANUALLY ADD C4HD OR EITHER OF THE BBC HD CHANNELS ON A SKY HD BOX as the "Other Channels" option only works with DVB-S mode transmissions and even then only at two fixed symbol rates. However, when watching programming via the EPG the hardware and software of even the oldest Sky HD boxes (Thomson branded) are perfectly happy with the more recent and efficient DVB-S2 transmission standard and can tune to symbol rates that differ to the two fixed rates available via "Other Channels".

Channel 4 and also the two BBC HD channels transmit using DVB-S2 so there is no way you can manually tune into these transmissions via "Other Channels" as the software does not permit this. Please give up now as you will waste more of your time. If you are going to buy a Humax and your dish, LNB & cables are capable of delivering a good signal (which it seems they can as your Sky box gets it) then you will be able to watch C4HD with no problems.


To summarise, although the Sky HD units are capable of tuning into these transmissions the "Other Channels" options are deliberately crippled in the software and there is nothing you or anyone else can do about it.

From the research I have done on this interweb thingy a Sky HD box cannot manually tune into a DVB-S2 transmission, which is what C4HD and many (all?) of the other HD channels use.

It can only do it via the EPG. So even though you can receive C4HD perfectly well via the EPG the box cannot add the channel manually.

Not entirely sure why that is but that appears to be how it works.

Oppps many thanks I read what M60 said again and got it now

what M60 said was;


When I read it I thought, because I tried tuning in even Sky SD box for signal check, he meant Sky SD boxes won't tune into HD channels that makes sense.

But I now realize that even Sky HD box won't add CH4 HD manually, so my only option is to risk and hope that Humax will receive CH4 HD as my Sky HD box or just wait until CH4 HD moves to Astra N1.

It is very strange that Sky HD boxes are deliberately crippled in the software to stop adding CH4 HD manually.

There's no risk, if you can view it on a Sky-HD box via the epg there's no reason why you won't be able to view it on a Freesat-HD box unless you buy one of the Harvard boxes that don't work properly with DVB-S2. Unlike the Sky box, if you mean the Foxsat-hdr you can watch it in freesat mode from the epg and in non-freesat and record it without encryption as well in fta mode.

YES (Which is not long enough for the 5 character minimum!)

There is only one C4HD signal. As grahamlthompson correctly states above if your Sky HD box can reliably receive C4HD a Humax HDR will do too. Just make sure you heed Graham's advice and avoid the crappy older Harvard boxes (Grundig, Bush, Goodmans etc) as a good many of these were incorrectly made on the cheap and are not DVB-S2 compliant.

Sky don't want you watching stuff that is not on their EPG and make it as hard as possible for you to attempt to do so.

Thanks and yes I meant the Foxsat HDR, not Harvard boxes.



Thanks (which is just long enough )



Oppss I bet my friend is not a happy bunny then! I gave him my Bush HD box for him to watch World Cup in HD last year when I upgraded to Sky HD but what you are saying is he can’t receive CH4 HD then.

I’ll ask him next time I see him if he is still using the Bush HD box. I have some more questions for you experts please;

I checked some channels last night and most displayed between 30% to 50% signal strength but nearly 95% signal quality. CH4 HD was the worst, only one bar or two, 20% 25%?, signal strength but again nearly 95% signal quality on input 2.

Input 1 always showed higher signal strength than Input 2 so;

1) What is the difference between Signal Strength and Signal quality?

2)Do I need to worry about low signal strength even if the signal quality is nearly 95%?

3)Does Humax HDR show HD programmes in colour on the EPG? (I think Sky highlighting HD programmes in orange is very good idea)

Thanks

Care to elaborate? CH4 HD working fine on my Bush HD box (spare) when I last checked it in June.

You can't relate the signal strengths directly between boxes althought the quality readings ought to be similar as the same signal gives different readings.. Yours are very low though suggesting your dish alignment needs looking at. Sigal strength is obvious, quality is a measure of the amount of error correction required to recover the digital data. The nearer 100% the better. Looking at your figures what happens in heavy rain ?. It looks likely you will get signal breakup. The Foxsat-hdr has very sensitive tuners so will work where some others wont. Best to install the box and look at the foxsat's signal diagnostics.

Some Harvard boxes will get DVB-S2 channels, the main problem is you can't record them with the pvrs.

HD programmes are the same colour in the Foxsat-hdrs epg.

When you have the box installed download this .htm file and open it in your browswer. Tune to one channel from each transponder in turn and press info. Look at the signal and quality bargraphs bottom right. If any are not firmly in the green use Menu/System/Diagnostics to get the actual percentages.

You are looking for a pattern for problem signals.

http://humaxgoodies.weebly.com/frees...ansponder.html

For example a significant difference between horizontal and vertical polarisation channels would most likely be down to the lnb skew needing adjustment.

Thanks graham for detailed info.

We live in a block of flats & share a communal Sky dish. There are 6 flats here. The dish is much bigger than normal Sky dishes, probably anything between 60cm to 80cm dish. So one would expect it is big enough for strong signal strength & quality.


We had Sky+ box when we moved in and True Movies & Tiny Pop channels would suffer from signal break up. I now know those were the channels from Eurobird. I then contacted the builders who put me in contact with the company who installed the communal dish.

The engineer came around checked the communal dish and said everything looked ok!

I then suggested if he could change the LNB to see if it made any difference and he changed the LNB and signal improved on Eurobird and signal break up stopped, later on we realized that some of Disney Channels would sometimes suffer from signal break up which never happened before.

We then upgraded to Sky HD then signal strength reduced on the same set but signal quality increased dramatically with Sky HD box.

Sky+ box had 50% to 60% Signal Strength and about only 70-75% signal quality but since upgrading the Sky HD box, we now get between 30% to 40% signal strength but nearly 95% signal quality.

It is obvious to me that the type of box & its tuners seem to make difference the quality of the signal. The more sensitive the tuner the better the signal strength or quality maybe?

Interestingly, although current signal strength seems to be low, luckily and maybe because of the better signal quality, we don’t seem to get signal breakup.

I’m not sure how the satellite company originally installed the dish and thought 30% to 40% signal strength was good enough! Luckily signal quality with HD box has been higher than previous non-pvr Sky box & Sky+ boxes

I even checked the Sky box with only one tuner on Saturday, although signal strength was much higher than current Sky HD box, Signal quality was nowhere near 95% what we get now. It only got 70% to 75% signal quality.

So I am not sure if I really need to contact the managing agent to contact the satellite company but currently, although with very low signal strength, we can even get signal from Eurobird without any signal break up. That’s why I asked if I need to worry about low signal strength when the signal quality is about 95%

Thanks

60cm is not very big, basically you have a dish feeding a multiswitch which reduces the signal strength by approx 1 dish size compared to direct connection. So a 60cm would be about the same gain as a Sky minidish directly connected.

Best to just wait till you get the new box and do the checks I suggested. If any of the channels break up then it's time to contact the management company.

Ok many thanks, I will do so.