Grime is rubbish. Grimes on the other hand is outstanding.

Grimes named herself after Grime music and is a fan of Dizzee Rascal.

Grimes wouldn't qualify for the Mercury Prize though.

To be fair, I always got the impression The 1975 wouldn't have become successful had their lead singer not been the son of someone famous.

Just like Rixton. Are you seriously telling me they didn't become famous because the lead singer is Shane Richie and Coleen Nolan's son? If the lead singer of Rixton didn't have famous parents, he wouldn't have the luxury of famous contacts either.

Apple Martin. Moses Martin. Cruz Beckham. Harper Seven Beckham. Blue Ivy Carter. Make a note of these names because they'll be the names topping the UK charts in another 10-20 years time either as a solo artist or lead singer in a group. The fact they also have famous parents and contacts with the music industry is just a co-incidence. Same applies to The 1975 and Rixton.


Maybe Grimes will win Best International Female at next years Brit Awards instead.

Rixton were always promoted that way, it didn't come out about The 1975 until they had a hit with 'Chocolate'. I didnt know till then. I loved them from their debut EP when nobody knew who they were, apart from any Loose Women watchers who really paid attention to what indie band her son is in but tbh they are not really their target audience.
I though they were an exciting band who were melding indie, AOR and 80s sounds, and was shocked when they started getting played on the radio as I just found them through listening to new releases they had no real radio play at that point again until 'Chocolate', I think 'Sex' was played by Zane Lowe but that was it.

But of course having family connections help but plenty do and have no real success at all. If you have no success and have famous family connections nobody says anything do they??

The 1975 have definitely become more popular with their second album. I know the snobbish music critics absolutely slated their debut album. That's one of the reasons why I find the video to The Sound quite funny.

It's just that I would prefer to see a band breakthrough and gain fantastic success through pure hard work, determination and the ability to write excellent songs. A band where none of the members have any famous relatives and have build up a loyal following that manages to even appeal to the Spotify generation.

Another Oasis or Arctic Monkeys would shake up the music industry. Problem is, where is that band and which record label would sign them?

A bunch of working class hoodlums like Oasis just wouldn't have an audience anymore. They are too uncouth for the new young fogies generation, even Adele is slammed for being foul mouthed on stage. Your own description above of what might be credible (bands writing and playing their own songs probably on guitars) is a bit old-fashioned.

Grime is a relatively modern genre of music, it makes use of electronics, it's populated by DJs, rappers and associates, it's mainly rooted in Black British culture. Grime is about as street cred as you get these days, and the most likely to shake something up, so far it hasn't.

Since when did street cred mean being babbling incoherently and unable unable to communicate in your native language?

The Mercury Music Prize is a guide to what might be some of the best music of the year in the genres they cover, which is basically BBC 6 Music, Radio 1 and Radio 1Xtra. Any music outside of that is completely ignored, no matter how good it is.

Never used to be the case though? You used to often get the odd Folk or Jazz album thrown in which use to spice it up a bit. Sadly you never see that anymore.

Since abut 1956

Thought the Mercury Award was 'supposed' to be about the quality of the music.Not bigging up artist's / creating buzz / commercial tie-ups.

The Brit Awards are basically financed by the Major Labels therefore the people who get the rewards are their biggest selling artist's or the artist's they are trying to promote by a committee selected from the movers & shakers associated with mainly Major Label artists.The Major Labels expect the promotional value to equate to the $$$$ they put in.

The Mercury Award is not quite as blatantly commercial as The Brits but it seems to be going in that direction.Not sure where Skepta fits into this equation but alot of established Hip Hop / Rap / R&B artist's have been showing support for him for some reason.I'm sure that has something to do with Skepta '4 year album deal' which he apparently has renegaded on / was dropped from / bought himself out of (doubt this one).Perhaps Mercury have got tied into the political shenanigans that seems to be developing between the Music Industry / the battle between the Artists & Major Labels.

If you look back at Skepta you will notice that he has gained popularity since his association with Universal which goes back to 2008? He has been around since 2003 but did not get any general popularity until his link up with Universal.The Grime scene in London (as it was termed ) had gained some popularity just before / around this time.Skepta was late / reluctant to jump onto that bandwagon but eventually did jump on, perhaps after the buzz (of the London Grime scene) had faded.Not sure why Skepta deserves any 'respec!' for this.He may or not be an Independant artIst now.I doubt whether he has completely extrapilated himself out of his '4 album' Universal deal.If he does get success out of this Mercury prize, I'm sure Universal will come knocking on his door or come to a mutual 'resigning' agreement.

Think the Arctic Monkeys / Myspace buzz seems to have been a marketing ploy.Before they signed their Management / Record / Publishing deals their Myspace views weren't that great or this what I have read, anyway.Myspace was a vital 'tool' in Artic Monkeys early promotion after their management contract with Wildlife Entertainment.The basis for their early success & their credibility as 'saviours of rock 'n' roll' .Signing to Domino & EMI publishing further boosted their impact.You cannot use Myspace like that these days now though.Not saying there was a local buzz based around Myspace but their marketing was based around massive Myspace views which wasn't entirely true.
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...t/17/news.arts
http://www.pop-buzz.com/just-music/a...h01iO1ZwxX8.97
http://www.musicbusinessworldwide.co...entertainment/
http://www.saltywaffle.com/making-it...monkeys-story/

There are still plenty of bands out there doing that and who are very successful as well with Top 10 albums and sell out Arena tours.

Don't expect to hear them played on mainstream radio, though.

Young fogies is right. The young generation today (barring the Corbynites) are conservative & convention. It's utterly depressing. I'm hopeful that change in music will come in time, but it doesn't look imminent. Music (well mainstream music) is depressingly boring at the mo.

You could say that about C/W music which has been about for years, that doesn't make it current, relevant or worthy.

Has rock music not become rather conventional? I think that is the point.

Current, relevant or worthy, to whom?

If you go to a festival such as Download you would find over the three days that Rock music is as diverse as it has always been.

IDownload is popular, my daughter goes, but so is the Edinburgh Tattoo. This isn't about mass popularity when it comes to the Mercury it's about trying to encourage originality and a bit of artistic challenge. And yes, it may need a few cultivators of taste to say don't just listen to that , listen to this because most people listen to what they like and stop there. That's why Skepta wins the Mercury prize ahead of any popular rock act, it pushes at the boundaries at least a fraction.

What originality does the Mercury prize encourage.It's like the 6music or BBC 1Xtra of music awards.They are two stations that seem to have an entrenched attitude of what music it should play & both very often predictible in their output.These two stations can be commercially manipulated within the field they represent, instead of representing music at an arms length, impartial way.

Not sure if you know all about how 'indies' work.They are commercial representitives of record labels / management of artists who pitch for artists to get radio airplay (other media coverage).They are not directly employed by them but are basically payed on the amount of media coverage the can get for the artists they represent.Both 6music & BBC 1Xtra basically base their airplay on their negotiations with these 'indies' - both Major Labels & larger Independant labels use 'indies'.This system of getting radio airplay is no different from Radio 1, Radio 2 or other radio stations in the commercial sector.The 'indies' & radio stations just pitch to a different 'perceived' audience that's all.

As you now Major Labels have hundreds of sub-labels, alot of which are still classified as Independant labels.Alot of Indepentant labels also use the Major label distribution / promotional arm if they choose to sign up to those deals.The 'indies' in this case could be indirectly employed by Major Labels even though they could be representing 'so called' Independant artists.

The reason I am writing this.Is to point out that the Music Industry does not like to push boundaries, especially at the moment.Media outlet's like BBC radio 1Xtra / Radio 6music (even though it represents itself as an eclectic music station ) have their own boundaries.Everybody now's that Radio 1 / 2 & other commercial 'hit radio' / adult contemporary radio stations have obvious boundaries.The Mercury prize seems to have set up a boundary within it's niche areas.The BPI https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit...aphic_Industry (who set up the Brit Awards & are also represented on the Mercury Prize panel) seem to have gained a tighter grip over the selection process.The Brit Awards represent the Commercial sector, the Mercury Prize is a way of boosting an artist from a 'niche' market into a more commercially viable market [Elbow sales went up 700% after winning the award].Being nominated for a Mercury Prize probably involves alot of commercial manipulation.Not as much as the Brit Awards but it is still a part of the process of selection.

Not sure how Skepta got 'selected' for this award, but it's not on a purely musical basis.Grime has had alot of commercial backing within the UK, with mixed outcomes.It was 10 years ago that the then niche area of music came to a consensus of the name of this fusion of hip hop & electro music.As there seems to be commercial tie-ups between the highly commercial EDM & Hip hop (mainstream) movements.Perhaps Grime has become overshadowed by it, thus winning the Mercury Prize by one of it's 'lesser' commercially backed artists would be a nice boost to keeping it going (rather than dying a slow death).

The Arctic Monkeys were a genuine local phenomenon way before they were signed. The band themselves didn't use MySpace or upload their songs online. It was done by local fans. I remember seeing them in Sheffield before they were signed and being genuinely taken aback at how many people knew the words to their songs. I recall fans giving out CDs of the band at the gigs themselves. I don't think the band did much at all to boost awareness of their music . Certainly nothing out of the ordinary.

I feel their early success was actually very organic. The people I knew at the time who were into them didn't discover then through MySpace but through CDs that were passed around and copied multiple times

It is the music biz after all, so deconstructing the pop production process which determines what gets heard is fair enough. But when the album is out there, it can be judged against others based on its content and context. I trust the independence of Simon Frith, I've read a lot of his academic work. And some of the albums which have been chosen (the two PJ Harvey albums, Arctic Monkeys (see post above by the way), Pulp, Portishead) are quite excellent whatever means they were brought to our attention.

He has friends in high places. Drake and him are bff's. any connection to him is going to make a label start dreaming about pound signs.

Are you being serious? The 1975 are talented musicians whether you like them or not. Their success is down to being good at what they do. Their debut album was released with little promotion. What contacts do you see on their records? It's Denise Welch we are talking about here. I highly doubt fans of alternative music give 2 hoots about Denise Welch. A lot of bands become famous without any contacts.

My point was that, as Scratchy7929 pointed out, the remit for the Mercury Music Prize has now become very narrow now, basically Radio 1Xtra and 6 Music, and isn't reflective of the originality and talent of musicians outside of the narrow band of genres they cover. As others have said, it didn't used to be like that.

To be honest I struggle to find anything more pretentious than the idea of "a few cultivators of taste to say don't just listen to that , listen to this".

I've listened to 6 Music for years and find myself listening to it less and less these days. Before it was suggested it was closed it was an incredibly diverse radio station where all genres of music sat happily beside each other so there might be a thrash metal track followed by a dance thrak, a folk song, then a classic, etc,. Since it was saved from closure it has become "indie lite" with a bit of 1Xtra thrown in.

It is a pale shadow of the music station it once was, and that is reflected in the Mercury Music Prize.

Yes, 100% agree with all this. I suppose you would have had to live in Sheffield at the time to fully appreciate how it happened for them (I did) no matter how many articles Scratchy dredges up about it not being like it actually happened lol.

Yeah I am from Sheffield too and was young enough to see with my own eyes the phenomenon they were for a good while before anyone even spoke of Myspace and whatever. I was never a huge fan to be honest but the whole thing surrounding them was as exciting as anything I have witnessed personally