[Thine Wonk]

No doubt it's an issue, just like other networks have issues with 3G coverage and tiny data allowances etc. You have to decide what is more important. How often do you need the network support or is the price, coverage, speeds, allowances etc that is more important.

The customer numbers between networks seem to suggest the latter is more important to people moving networks at the moment.

[wavejockglw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

No doubt it's an issue, just like other networks have issues with 3G coverage and tiny data allowances etc. You have to decide what is more important. How often do you need the network support or is the coverage, speeds, allowances and caps more important.

The customer numbers seem to suggest the latter is more important to people moving networks at the moment.

Aye right...... 02 with the least 3G and the highest number of customers (for a single network) also have the least complaints Data allowances have not put folks off using 02 and they are not the cheapest option either. Proof that good customer care and reliability of basic services works. 02 have 900/1800/2100Mhz available and are speedily rolling out 900Mhz 3G which will be the most robust high speed mobile data available until 850Mhz is lauched after 2015.

Poor reliabilty and dreadful customer service makes unlimited data and statistical coverage irrelevant. A bargain is not a bargain if you can't use it! First and foremost a mobile phone is for making voice calls and 900/1800/2100Mhz seamless coverage beats 2100Mhz alone any day. Most users don't rack up huge data amounts monthly, just as most users did not consume anything like the amounts of minutes 3 provided cheaply in the early days. It's a marketing ploy that looks like good value but for most voice contact will be the primary reason to buy a mobile phone and 3 has the least robust technology for that purpose.

[Thine Wonk]

Many others disagree with you Wavejockgwl, but hey. If it's what you think then fine.

[prking]

I don't think anyone has done research into why people move to 3 or leave 3. I'd be interested to see some. Certainly the press seems to think its because of price and low credit threshold . Statements from three say its success is because the network is built for smartphones. I don't really know what to think; indoor coverage and customer service would explain the reported poor churn rate , but who knows.

It would be useful to see other operating figures which most of the other networks release but Three don't seem to. (For example, conversion rate of Pay and Go to contract, average revenue per customer etc).

[alanwarwic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

It's a marketing ploy that looks like good value but for most voice contact will be the primary reason to buy a mobile phone and 3 has the least robust technology for that purpose.

However they do receive and transmit HD Voice if the phone is compatible.

That ploy is true throughout the industry. Its mainly how £500 phones are sold.

[wavejockglw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Many others disagree with you Wavejockgwl, but hey. If it's what you think then fine.

Can't see a lot of evidence of that in this or other threads.

The simple fact is 3 is the most complained about mobile network and the legacy operators have more options to deliver reliable voice and data. Neither of these facts can be denied.

One tends to find that you get lots of something cheap for a reason.

[Thine Wonk]

So you keep saying, and you cherish O2. We get it.

[prking]

Correction to my earlier post, Three do publish average revenue statistics. Apologies.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...y-numbers.html

For the last full year, Three's average revenue per customer fell by 16% compared to the previous year. This would seem to support the idea that price was the key factor in subscriber growth .

[Thine Wonk]

Now try and get a more updated figure prking.

Quote:

http://www.telecompaper.com/news/sma...-by-2015-study

Smartphones will make up two-thirds of the UK mobile market by 2015, Mobile Today reported, citing research from Business Monitor International (BMI). The total number of subscribers will reach 84 million, with 53.5 million on 3G contracts, BMI said in its UK telecommunications market report for Q3 2011.

BMI said the market would to continue to grow but decelerate as market penetration increased. It forecast continuing strong growth in 3G subscriptions, which would steadily become the norm. BMI said the basis for competition and new revenue were becoming more important than subscription growth for mobile operators. The contraction in the fixed-line market will also continue at a slower rate as operators increase bundled services. BMI expected average revenues per user (ARPU) to level off despite a growth in data traffic.

In Q2, all network operators except 3 UK reported lower ARPUs, for the second quarter in a row, mainly due to operators fighting over postpaid subscriptions and trying to switch prepaid subscribers to postpaid. BT continued to lead the broadband market. It reported a retail broadband base of 5.7 million and wholesale broadband customer base of 8.1 million. O2 UK and Orange UK both reported strong uptakes of their broadband services, as did satellite broadcaster BSkyB. TalkTalk migrated Tiscali subscribers onto its own network, but was hit with a GBP 3 million fine by Ofcom for poor customer service. Cable operator Virgin Media reported positive Q1 2011 results following a strong 2010. The launch of 100Mbps broadband and a new set-top box to rival Sky+ will likely give the MVNO another positive year in 2012, BMI said.

Every UK network reported lower ARPUs except H3G, most of the 5 networks LOST around 200,000 customers each.

H3G added 1.1 million new customers. Three UK is the 5th fastest growing network in the whole of Eurpoe, that's well over 100 networks. Annual revenue per user increasing when every other UK network decreased.

£11.6bn -the cost of building Three’s high-speed mobile network. O2 was boasting about spending 1 Million a day. What 3G coverage have O2 added since 2008? 4%.

Once again it doesn't fit with wavey's way of looking at things, but that won't deter him!

He'll ignore all this and go on his own rant anyway so let it be.

[legends wear 7]

http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/News/12..._MTR_cuts.aspx

So basically the massive churn rates in the majory networks are distorted as they churn their own prepay bases to contract

And this tells us everything about three, low margin low value customers. I still believe they are balance sheet building ready to be offloaded.

Quote:

Anecdotal evidence suggests that Three is picking up customers from all the big networks – especially while O2 keeps out of the market for the short-term –thanks to its ‘all-you-can-eat’ data proposition. The consensus view is that Three seems to be doing well in the £25-£35 per month tier.

and the big networks have not lost the 200k customers you say

Vodafone and Everything Everywhere have certainly looked to move customers onto contracts. Everything Everywhere had a particularly good quarter, adding 236,000, while Vodafone signed up 206,000. O2, meanwhile, produced its worst result for many years with just 24,700.

On Prepay Both Vodafone and EE have been aggressive in reducing box breaking so it makes sense they would lose share. But their lower share will produce better margin

[wavejockglw]

Hutchison Whampoa's own Annual Report for 2010 (the latest available) reported a 16% drop in ARPU at 3 UK from the 2009 results.

As these are the parent company's audited accounts they are more reliable evidence compared with an unreferenced comment in a telecoms publication.

Page 7 http://202.66.146.82/listco/hk/hutch...10/telecom.pdf

It'll be interesting seeing how Li Ka Shing gets £11+ billion back from the 3 UK folly. At it's present performance it'll take a century to pay for it's build cost alone!

[Thine Wonk]

About Telecompaper
We have been keeping professionals in the telecoms industry up-to-date since 2000. Telecompaper is a well respected, independent research and publishing company focussed on the telecommunications industry. Telecompaper employs 15 staff at its headquarters in Houten, the Netherlands, and also employs correspondents in various countries who track their local telecom market. Telecompaper provides international customers with research and advisory services, breaking news, digests, expert analyses, company profiles and research reports.


Research
Our expert researchers are continuously monitoring the telecom industry with a focus on the Western European market. They offer answers to ad-hoc questions and compile reports, research briefs, quarterly reports on the mobile and broadband industry, competitive updates, promotions updates and regularly updated company profiles. Please contact our research department for more information.

Customers
Customers for our news, research and advisory services include major telecom operators, manufacturers, retailers, research- and consultancy firms, regulators and other government agencies, as well as PR firms and investment companies.

Oh I think they have accurate information, but ok we'll wait for the annual report.

Whatever you say wavejock

[legends wear 7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

About Telecompaper
We have been keeping professionals in the telecoms industry up-to-date since 2000. Telecompaper is a well respected, independent research and publishing company focussed on the telecommunications industry. Telecompaper employs 15 staff at its headquarters in Houten, the Netherlands, and also employs correspondents in various countries who track their local telecom market. Telecompaper provides international customers with research and advisory services, breaking news, digests, expert analyses, company profiles and research reports.


Research
Our expert researchers are continuously monitoring the telecom industry with a focus on the Western European market. They offer answers to ad-hoc questions and compile reports, research briefs, quarterly reports on the mobile and broadband industry, competitive updates, promotions updates and regularly updated company profiles. Please contact our research department for more information.

Customers
Customers for our news, research and advisory services include major telecom operators, manufacturers, retailers, research- and consultancy firms, regulators and other government agencies, as well as PR firms and investment companies.

Oh I think they have accurate information, but ok we'll wait for the annual report.

Whatever you say wavejock Anything positive goes through the rigorous wavejock 'filter' and anything negative get immediately accepted without question.

I'm not biting any more it's a waste of time, like banging your head against a brick wall.

Dont care what your source, if the annual report has not been released yet, you've no idea what the result will read. Unless you are Three CEO/CFO in which case your breaking the law right now

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by legends wear 7

Dont care what your source, if the annual report has not been released yet, you've no idea what the result will read. Unless you are Three CEO/CFO in which case your breaking the law right now

It wouldn't matter to you two anyway! no minds will change even if the annual report came out tomorrow with those figures. Which are from a very reputable source anyway.

[QTC13]

Someone has to be top of the complaints list and someone has to be bottom.

At the end of the day, it's a personal choice. A one size fits all policy with regard to networks cannot be applied.

There are happy customers for all the networks and equally unhappy ones.

I'm with 3 and I am a happy customer. Yes their call centre is diabolical. But, 9/10 problems can be resolved via online forums. So I'm happy with that 10th time to deal with people in a foreign call centre and put up with it.

ETA no need for people to get aggressive with each other for having different opinions.

[wavejockglw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Which are from a very reputable source anyway.

That did not quote a reference to the information presented as factual in it's article.

Not a reputable practice.

[mjdj1689]

Has anyone on here looked on 3s facebook page, there is a guy on there called liam Jame and he on there on every thread, day and night, now he is a 3 lover.

Have a look and you will see what I mean.

[Martin Phillp]

Three's social media team who operate the blog, FB and Twitter (the latter now has a CS account at @ThreeUKSupport) to deal with customer queries which has improved a lot this year. Yet I still wouldn't feel comfortable taking a contract with them and only use the phone CS as a last resort.

[ShaunIOW]

I'm with 3 and have been a few years, and yes CS is a pain - mainly because I can barely understand what they're saying, but the actual quality of sorting issues is no better or worse than others (and I've tried all of them) and at least 3 don't expect me to phone a mobile number from a landline to contact CS (if the mobile isn't available) nor keep me on hold for up to 2 hours then cut me off, which has happened with another company.

As for quality of service, 3 are the best for me where I live - I don't get dropped calls, call quality is clear, 3G is normally 4 bars and when I connect a laptop I get max speed no problem wheras dad's on Orange/T-mobile and is always getting dropped calls, poor call quality and no 3G, a friend is on Vodaphone and when they visit me have to go outside for a voice call, yet where I am is supposed to be excellent 2G/3G vodaphone coverage, and I tried an O2 sim and 3G lmao what 3G?

[prking]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Now try and get a more updated figure prking.



Every UK network reported lower ARPUs except H3G, most of the 5 networks LOST around 200,000 customers each.

H3G added 1.1 million new customers. Three UK is the 5th fastest growing network in the whole of Eurpoe, that's well over 100 networks. Annual revenue per user increasing when every other UK network decreased.

£11.6bn -the cost of building Three’s high-speed mobile network. O2 was boasting about spending 1 Million a day. What 3G coverage have O2 added since 2008? 4%.

Once again it doesn't fit with wavey's way of looking at things, but that won't deter him!

He'll ignore all this and go on his own rant anyway so let it be.

ARPU has nothing to do with how many customers a network has. So your first sentence is bizarre and I don't think 200,000 is correct.

After dropping 16% last year it would have been disastrous of the trend continued, so good for Three if they have stemmed the fall. They must be charging customers more.

[kev]

I'm not surprised - trying to hear the customer services (baring in mind this is for a brand new business account with there accounts team wanting to confirm the order before processing!) is right mare - you can here about ten people talking at once such is the level of background noise! Oh well, at least they are only data contracts!

Compared to T-Mobile (business) where my calls are always answered by one of the same five people and are always helpful, knowledgeable and always return calls as promised, the contrast so far is stark!

To a certain degree an excellent customer services team can wipe any other problems with the company into insignificance, an awful team (or once you can't hear properly) can make an otherwise good company seam like they are completely rubbish.

[davethorp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by prking

Its not 0.14% its 0.14 complaints per 1000 customers.

So 0.014% then

It's likely 3's results were slightly skewed by their decision to charge for SMS delivery reports. I seem to remember a lot of people complaining about that wanting to use it as an exit reason with many referring complaints off to either OFCOM or the dispute resolution service that 3 use

That said, my experience with 3's customer service has been a bit hit and miss with my most recent call being handled well and efficiently even by India but on one occasion a few months ago Indian customer services lied to me in a bid to stop me from cancelling a mobile broadband sim which ended up being dealt with by 3's twitter and the executive office

[prking]

My point about the percentage is that figures get quoted randomly which are wrong or unsubstantiated or out of context. Why does this happen, is it to obscure the issue as a bizarre defense of a favoured provider?

Unfortunately, it gives the impression of someone trying to spin Three's profile. Of course, it actually ends up doing the opposite. We can all quite figures to make a point, stringing along the thread.

The figures actually only represent just over a thousand complaints to Ofcom, and the thread would probably have died out pretty quickly if Three's knight hadn't stepped in to defend them. Albeit in a rather clumsy way.

As you say their customer service IS hit and miss but so are many other companies.

[mikey86uk]

i think we can all agree, that they all suck

[ram jam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

First and foremost a mobile phone is for making voice calls and 900/1800/2100Mhz seamless coverage beats 2100Mhz alone any day .

could not agree more