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Techika T835 firmware |
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#51 |
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I've bought another T835 from Tesco's to replace the one I returned last week. The "new" one is a 320GB version and has software version 1.9. It's physically in very good condition but is obviously not new as it has two recordings on it dated Aug 2010 which I assume were made by the previous owner.
Things did not start well when I first powered it on. It booted to the First Time Installation menu and I performed an Automatic Channel Scan. All MUXs appeared to tune satisfactorily and when the Scan completed the unit displayed a "live" BBC1 Channel as indicated by the Info banner, However there was no sound or vision. Display of A//V was possible as I was able to playback the existing recordings in the Library. Setting in and out of standby had no effect. Looking at the Manual Tune screen displayed zero signal level for all channels. Doing a power-cycle restored normal operation. Doing several Low Power Standby re-boots and power-cycles since has not produced the original condition. Any thoughts on what caused the initial issue? Not done much yet except set up a full schedule of Series Record events equal to the total I have on my other currently connected PVRs comprising 76 events in total. Immediately after completing the setting it took 24s to access the Timers list which is not dissimilar to what I got on my T825 with a similar number of Timer events. Having completed nine recordings this evening with the unit powered on since about 3.0pm I accessed the Timers list just now (00.05 am). It took approx 1m 30s before the Timers screen was displayed! From what I remember that was longer than on my T825 under similar conditions. I've just (at 00.15am) accessed the Timers list a second time and it took approx 2m this time. Accessing the Guide is taking about 4s and stepping through the days in the Guide 5s per day. So for me I'm not getting any improvement in response time compared with my T825, A third access of the Timers list again took 2m. Colin Edit: At 00:45am I've just completed a Low Power Standby cycle and immediately accessed the Timers list which took 5s. Response on the EPG is also restored to optimum. As I've said before, v3.4 should bring a speed improvement since Vestel specifically worked on improving this, although the result does not totally meet my approval. Still, using LPM is advisable to keep EPG slowdown in check. I can't say I've ever noticed timer list slowdown as extreme as you have - although I currently have around 40 timers and probably I never tested it with as many as 76. |
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#52 |
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Join Date: May 2005
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After scanning channels, did you try changing channels before switching off? Occasionally, I get a blank screen after turning on, but changing channels remedies this. I'd tend to say what you experienced once just a glitch - it certainly shouldn't be a regular occurance.
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As I've said before, v3.4 should bring a speed improvement since Vestel specifically worked on improving this, although the result does not totally meet my approval. Still, using LPM is advisable to keep EPG slowdown in check. I can't say I've ever noticed timer list slowdown as extreme as you have - although I currently have around 40 timers and probably I never tested it with as many as 76. Colin |
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#53 |
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I think the first thing I did after scanning was completed and finding the blank screen, was to set to standby and on again (not allowing sufficient time for the LPM to be activated).That had no effect. I can't be certain but I think the next thing I did was change channels. From what I remember my train of thought was that I changed channels using the PR+ button to see if other MUX's were affected. This showed to be the case. I then further investigated the blank screen issue, eventually power cycling which cured it..I've found previously on my T825s that 40 channels does not have serious effects on response provided the unit is rebooted every day or so. It's around the 70 mark when it gets very troublesome and above 100 the unit is virtually unusable. Mind you, unless your are a TV addict 100 recordings is an awful lot to watch each week.
It will be interesting to see if the timer list response time improves after you've now set them all up, since I recall sometimes having strange problems immediately after a rescan and having to set all my timers up. It seems the software can get into a bit of a state after setting up lots of timers in one go initially. After a reboot, things return to "normal". |
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#54 |
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Join Date: May 2005
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Thinking back, I have on occasion experienced what you saw with the zero reading on the signal meter, as if the unit is picking up no signal. This might have been what you saw, and if so it's not an indication of a faulty unit - just glitchy software, maybe.
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It will be interesting to see if the timer list response time improves after you've now set them all up, since I recall sometimes having strange problems immediately after a rescan and having to set all my timers up. It seems the software can get into a bit of a state after setting up lots of timers in one go initially. After a reboot, things return to "normal". I've noticed significant stuttering on the first few recordings made yesterday. Others recorded later seem better although I have not watched them all. Colin |
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#55 |
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I forgot to mention that I was convinced that the blank screen was not simply loss of signal was that I went into the Guide and I could see it was being populated with programme data as I viewed it. I think it was at that point that I decided to power cycle and then repeat the tuning process. Of course when I powered back on all was normal.I've continuing to monitor the response each time I come out of LPM in the mornings and I immediately enter the Timers list. This took about 30s to display this morning.
I've noticed significant stuttering on the first few recordings made yesterday. Others recorded later seem better although I have not watched them all. Are most of your timers of a similar type like this test? I don't know why it should be taking 30s for the timer list to appear, although it can take a little longer if you happen to press the button while it is busy updating them (you can hear the HDD when it is). It could be the software version - whereas the T825 software changes were relatively static, there have been lots of changes throughout the T835 software development in regards to timers and the way they work. |
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#56 |
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Hmmm... I now have a v2.6 box working and I have set 141 timers on it - not individual timers, but all series link and on at least 5 times per week. It only takes a second or two for the timers list to pop up. Straight out of low power standby, it's harder to gauge - the timers list pops up instantly, although the box does take a while to boot up fully and produce a display.
Are most of your timers of a similar type like this test? I don't know why it should be taking 30s for the timer list to appear, although it can take a little longer if you happen to press the button while it is busy updating them (you can hear the HDD when it is). It could be the software version - whereas the T825 software changes were relatively static, there have been lots of changes throughout the T835 software development in regards to timers and the way they work. I've also continued to get sound and picture stuttering on many recordings. The unit is installed in the middle of the RF daisy chain in the same position previously occupied by my T825s. Signal strength on all MUXs is between 90 and 95% and all qualities are Very Good. I don't recall having any stuttering on my T825s for years. Another glitch occurred when I pressed Play to restart after Fast Forwarding and there was no response. Thinking I had failed to press the button properly I pressed Play again and when that failed to produce any response I pressed a few other buttons such as REW, Stop and Back. Nothing happened for about 10s and then all the previous commands were performed in rapid succession. I recall having this problem on a previous PVR which may have been one of my old T816s or even an early Technotrend PVR, which was also based on the Cabot middleware. I think I may have had mild repeat of this glitch when it appeared that I had to press Play three times before it responded. My T825s seem generally to be more stable than the two T835s I've had albeit on superseded software and of course they are both Tesco re-furbished units. Colin |
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#57 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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The T835 we acquired from the Tesco Outlet has been working fine. I did upgrade it to v3.4. We have a round 20 timers and not seen any performance issues accessing timer or library lists. On playback, there have been a couple of occasions where it seemed that a few frames of the program were missing. This seems to have been on the first couple of programs we recorded, though not noticed on more recent recordings, though haven't played too many so far. Will continue to monitor and report back. The only other quirk is that there's no ability to sort on the timers screen, so it can be a bit awkward double checking what's set to record.
We use this as a second PVR to capture stuff when we have a capacity clash on our DigitalStream. For £43, it's an absolute bargain and we're very happy with it so far. Definitely worth making up the scart lead and performing the software update. Anybody know what the later firmware versions (3.5, 4.1) do and if there's any chance we might be able to get hold of these somehow? Cheers MarkA |
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#58 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lincolnshire, UK
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...The only other quirk is that there's no ability to sort on the timers screen, so it can be a bit awkward double checking what's set to record...
It should not be beyond the wit of the software developers to reinstate a sensible sort order to the timer list, ideally user-selectable as with the library list. Similarly, while watching live TV or playing back recordings, the T816 would show program info with a second press of the info button. The T835 has removed this functionality, just leaving the "now&next" headings. Info is a really useful feature IMHO as it is handy to get a brief synopsis while channel "surfing" and, for us forgetful ones, while watching a recording. ![]() In other respects we are quite satisfied with our T835, running v3.4 software. However, it would be good if Vestel would take note of user's comments and issue updated software (by OAD) with these niggles removed. |
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#59 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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...I just checked with my ancient original T835 and a newer board, and the result was the same for both. The signal is passed through in low power standby, but attenuated a fair bit (so the signal meter says device attached to RF out). So, it depends how strong the incoming signal to the T835 is - after DSO it's probably ok (no DSO here yet, and still ok!). As you say, unplugging the T835 kills the passthrough dead. And when the T835 is on, there is virtually no signal loss on the passthrough...
I can confirm your findings that LPM does attenuate the RF pass-through signal substantially. Pass-through via my T816 and DVD is identical (good) whether they are in standby or on, as it is with the T835 in "normal" standby or on. In LPM only the stronger multiplexes get through the T835. IMHO this was a really daft design decision as it means the T835 must always be the "end-of-the-line" - an unnecessary restriction if you want the T835 to be the "primary" PVR with the best signal! Quite how you should connect RF to a T835 and a Freeview TV remains a mystery to me at the moment (do such TVs have RF pass-through?). |
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#60 |
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The T816 (v3.7 software) automatically sorts timers by date order, making it very easy to establish if a certain program was set up or not. The T835 has the enhancement of series-link recording but its usefulness is diminished to a certain extent by removing any kind of order from the resulting timer list, which is likely to be extended substantially by series-link entries.
It should not be beyond the wit of the software developers to reinstate a sensible sort order to the timer list, ideally user-selectable as with the library list. Colin |
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#61 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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Although I don't have a standalone RF power meter, I have been experimenting with my RF "daisy chain" connections and have used my T816 and Freeview DVD recorder to check power levels.
I can confirm your findings that LPM does attenuate the RF pass-through signal substantially. Pass-through via my T816 and DVD is identical (good) whether they are in standby or on, as it is with the T835 in "normal" standby or on. In LPM only the stronger multiplexes get through the T835. IMHO this was a really daft design decision as it means the T835 must always be the "end-of-the-line" - an unnecessary restriction if you want the T835 to be the "primary" PVR with the best signal! Quite how you should connect RF to a T835 and a Freeview TV remains a mystery to me at the moment (do such TVs have RF pass-through?). . I would strongly advise running T835 boxes with LPM disabled (which would enable RF loopthrough in standby) because of stability and overheating concerns.
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#62 |
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Using a passive Y-splitter if the source signal is strong enough...
Those with lower signal strengths would need to use a separate "booster" amplifier/splitter which would eliminate any supposed power-savings with the PVR in LPM. With good design, I suggest that the tiny quantity of power required by a unity-gain RF amplifier within a PVR could be virtually negligible. |
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#63 |
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Although I don't have a standalone RF power meter, I have been experimenting with my RF "daisy chain" connections and have used my T816 and Freeview DVD recorder to check power levels.
I can confirm your findings that LPM does attenuate the RF pass-through signal substantially. Pass-through via my T816 and DVD is identical (good) whether they are in standby or on, as it is with the T835 in "normal" standby or on. In LPM only the stronger multiplexes get through the T835. IMHO this was a really daft design decision as it means the T835 must always be the "end-of-the-line" - an unnecessary restriction if you want the T835 to be the "primary" PVR with the best signal! There is the alternative of using a splitter at the RF input of the PVR provided there is adequate signal. Quote:
Quite how you should connect RF to a T835 and a Freeview TV remains a mystery to me at the moment (do such TVs have RF pass-through?). Colin Edit:- Sorry about the duplication. I should have read to the end of the thread before posting.
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#64 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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Like yours, my Timers are mainly Series Record events repeating between 5 and 7 times per week with just 2 programmes broadcast once per week which each contribute 1 or 2 Timer events depending on the day of the week. I've discovered that measuring the Timer list access time is very dependent on actions performed previously. Yesterday, shortly after bringing out of LPM but not immediately (I had checked the Guide and the Library) I accessed the Timers list 5 times in quick succession and the access time increased with each attempt. 24s on the first instance and then 36s, 45s, 57 and finally 66s. So it's tricky to produce consistent results. When I first accessed the Timers list this morning immediately after coming out of LPM I got several Timers list access times in quick succession all between 10s and 12s.
I've also continued to get sound and picture stuttering on many recordings. The unit is installed in the middle of the RF daisy chain in the same position previously occupied by my T825s. Signal strength on all MUXs is between 90 and 95% and all qualities are Very Good. I don't recall having any stuttering on my T825s for years. Another glitch occurred when I pressed Play to restart after Fast Forwarding and there was no response. Thinking I had failed to press the button properly I pressed Play again and when that failed to produce any response I pressed a few other buttons such as REW, Stop and Back. Nothing happened for about 10s and then all the previous commands were performed in rapid succession. I recall having this problem on a previous PVR which may have been one of my old T816s or even an early Technotrend PVR, which was also based on the Cabot middleware. I think I may have had mild repeat of this glitch when it appeared that I had to press Play three times before it responded. My T825s seem generally to be more stable than the two T835s I've had albeit on superseded software and of course they are both Tesco re-furbished units. |
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#65 |
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Have you deleted all unwanted channels? This can have a large impact on performance. I think having so many timers is pushing the aging STi5100 processor to its limits - most likely when the remote does not respond, and suddenly catches up, it was busy processing the EIT and updating timers. This is partly why deleting unused channels can help. I do see this effect occasionally.
Colin |
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#66 |
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Perhaps somebody can help me with a couple of questions... Is the Technika casing matt black or glossy/piano black? It's hard to tell from the photos - my original T835 is matt black, whereas Hitachi models are glossy. Also, what colour is the remote - black or silver? Pondering whether to buy one of the 250Gb models or not, although I'm not really sure why as I happen to now have 5 working Hitachi HDR255 boxes too
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#67 |
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Perhaps somebody can help me with a couple of questions... Is the Technika casing matt black or glossy/piano black? It's hard to tell from the photos - my original T835 is matt black, whereas Hitachi models are glossy. Also, what colour is the remote - black or silver? Pondering whether to buy one of the 250Gb models or not, although I'm not really sure why as I happen to now have 5 working Hitachi HDR255 boxes too
.Colin |
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#68 |
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Perhaps somebody can help me with a couple of questions... Is the Technika casing matt black or glossy/piano black? It's hard to tell from the photos - my original T835 is matt black, whereas Hitachi models are glossy. Also, what colour is the remote - black or silver? Pondering whether to buy one of the 250Gb models or not, although I'm not really sure why as I happen to now have 5 working Hitachi HDR255 boxes too
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#69 |
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futaura!!! Have you a T835 fetish or something?
![]() On to more important matters though, is anybody else affected by the T835 switching the TV to the AV channel for a split second when it enters low power standby (either after finishing a recording or you switching the box off)? If you are watching the TV tuner it is incredibly annoying because once the T835 finishes recording something, the screen goes blank for a second or two before returning to the TV tuner. It may be that it doesn't affect all TVs, but certainly affects Sony ones. I measured the voltage on SCART pin 8 and it's blipping around 3.5V to that switching pin when it shuts down to low power mode causing the TV to switch. I've long since blanked pin 8 on my T835, but didn't want to do this on the parents' box, and instead have modified a SCART lead to reduce the voltage on pin 8 by 20% or so. This works perfectly - widescreen switching is still ok because the voltages are still in the correct ranges, but importantly the blip on shutdown is now a low enough voltage not to trigger the TV to switch. |
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#70 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lincolnshire, UK
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...is anybody else affected by the T835 switching the TV to the AV channel for a split second when it enters low power standby (either after finishing a recording or you switching the box off)? If you are watching the TV tuner it is incredibly annoying because once the T835 finishes recording something, the screen goes blank for a second or two before returning to the TV tuner. It may be that it doesn't affect all TVs, but certainly affects Sony ones...
I guess it is one of these gremlins that will just disappear once the entire country has gone digital - there had to be an upside somewhere.
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#71 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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We use an ancient Sony analogue CRT TV so potentially could have been affected by this. However, as we have now completed DSO we can no longer use the TV tuner so have not experienced the problem.
I guess it is one of these gremlins that will just disappear once the entire country has gone digital - there had to be an upside somewhere. ![]() It looks like different TVs will react differently to a small voltage on pin 8... After trying my modified SCART on my own TV it solved the problem, but didn't on my parents' TV - both Sony Bravias. Then a remembered I had made another custom SCART cable years ago to work around a problem on a Nokia ondigital box which IIRC left pin 8 active when in standby - the cable only enables pin 8 when pin 16 is on (RGB mode on). This fortunately solves the problem with the T835 too, because it doesn't blip pin 16 like it does with pin 8. |
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#72 |
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On to more important matters though, is anybody else affected by the T835 switching the TV to the AV channel for a split second when it enters low power standby (either after finishing a recording or you switching the box off)? If you are watching the TV tuner it is incredibly annoying because once the T835 finishes recording something, the screen goes blank for a second or two before returning to the TV tuner. It may be that it doesn't affect all TVs, but certainly affects Sony ones.
Would your modified SCART lead that dops the voltage on pin 8, or only allows it if RGB is active, fix either/both of these SCART control issues? Would you share the modification details, or post it on your website? Cheers MarkA |
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#73 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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Our recently acquired box does exactly this, it also momentarily asserts control of the SCART as it wakes from low power mode too. Looking through the vent holes on top, looks like we have a 16MB835N-3 board, so I guess this behaviour is standard. So far the only niggles we have with the T835 is this behaviour with the SCART and the inability to sort the timers list. Otherwise it's a cracking box, especially at £43!
Would your modified SCART lead that dops the voltage on pin 8, or only allows it if RGB is active, fix either/both of these SCART control issues? Would you share the modification details, or post it on your website? .Can you see what your board says below 16MB835N-3? There are at least 2 versions of this board - the older ones are marked 280409 and the newer ones 250609 (other than that there are no obvious differences visually). I suspect yours is a 280409 just like my original box - the startup SCART problem is fixed on the 250609 version. Not that it really matters because the shutdown SCART problem affects every board. |
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#74 |
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Would you share the modification details, or post it on your website
Ok, if it's a proper solution that you want, here's the circuit diagram and working simulation which shows the flow of the circuit (corresponding SCART pins: 12V is Pin 8 Input, Output is Pin 8 Output, 3V is Pin 16 and GND is Pin 21). As you can see, the end result is that Pin 8 is ignored unless there is a voltage on Pin 16 (i.e. RGB mode on - obviously, the T835 must have RGB mode enabled in the settings - it doesn't matter if the TV does not support RGB on the SCART as it'll use the CVBS signal which is still present). It essentially makes Pin 16 the switching signal instead of Pin 8, but maintains the widescreen signalling of Pin 8. The circuit is perhaps suboptimal, but at least it works - I'm open to suggestions from any electronics experts out there . I don't remember how I came up with the design, but I suspect the resistors and transistor values are not too important - different values can probably be used, as long as the proportions remain similar. I most likely picked these parts off old PCBs that I had laying around, rather buy new components specifically. The 2 transistors used on mine are a 2SC2001 and a 2SC380.Regarding positioning of the circuit, it will make a SCART lead one way, but can be installed at either end - just make sure the Pin 8 input is from the T835 SCART socket. I guess it could even be put inside the T835 if you want a more permanent solution and are willing to cut Pin 8 inside the T835. Regarding the connections, once the circuit is made (I mounted the components on a 6x6 stripboard), the Pin 16 and Pin 21 connections are in addition to the wires already connected in the SCART plug - do not detach those wires. Only detach the pin 8 wire in the SCART plug, so then the Pin 8 input and outputs from the circuit will then connect to the existing pin 8 wire and the pin 8 connector in the plug (which way around depends on whether you want to add the circuit at the TV or T835 end of the SCART lead). Does that all make sense? When I get the chance and perhaps after somebody has confirmed this works for them, I'll make a webpage for this. |
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#75 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nottingham
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That's great. Does it matter which way round the transistors are used i.e. which transistor in which place, as this isn't noted on the circuit diagram.
Cheers MarkA |
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. I would strongly advise running T835 boxes with LPM disabled (which would enable RF loopthrough in standby) because of stability and overheating concerns.
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