Hello everyone! I was just thinking of a solution to the parallel Universe Cybermen dilema, and created a theory for myself.

Basically, a small group of the cybermen from "Pete's world" who were in "The Next Doctor" survived seperately. Over time, they managed to create ships (and eventually a huge cyber fleet, as seen in AGMGTW). This would explain the Cybusmen design, and also the lack of a Cyber Logo.

I thought that this was the most straight-forward theory, and one which doesn't interfer with the Mondas Cybermen. Any better theories?

Uh, that these are indeed the Mondas Cybermen which is a much more straightforward answer than any theory about Cybus versions somehow surviving... again? Which would also explain why everything we've seen about them regarding conversion since Moffat took over seems to work differently. The skull in the head at Stonehenge, the full body conversion of Craig, both very different from Cybus versions.

I see what you mean, but I just thought that it would be a big coincidence that they share an identical design. Maybe the Cybusmen needed a more efficient way of converting? The one in TPO and tonight's both (suposedly) use the same conversion...

I agree with Smiddlehurst. These are our universe's Cybermen. If there's any connection at all, other than parallel evolution, it's possibly that they've found and appropriated some leftover Cybus tech from somewhere.

Actually, while it IS a coincidence, it makes perfect sense (well, as close as a show with a fast and loose cannon and 50 years of history gets anyway). Pull up a chair oh Shooty one and allow me to explain:

Think back to Rise of the Cybermen, the Tenth Doctor's (and the audience) first experience with the Cybus models. When the Cybermen attack the house at the end of the episode the Doctor sees them coming through the window. He immediately identifies them as Cybermen including the line "I've seen them before".

That, therefore, implies that the Cybus Cybermen design is close enough to the Mondas version for the Doctor to spot them immediately. It's not unreasonable to assume that, given this is a parallel world where everything looks more-or-less as it does in our universe, they are indeed the same basic design. What's different is the mechanisms behind that design, hence the different forms of assimilation.

Everytime (I think) the Cybermen appeared on the classic series they have looked different yet there was never (AFAIK) any reference to the changed look.

So my theory is that while the costumes have changed to us viewers to the Characters the Cybermen have always looked the same.


The Cybusmen had started experimenting with full body conversion towards the end of their Invasion in Army of Ghosts/Doomsday (as seen in TW Cyberwoman) but I do agree that any Cybermen we've seen in Moffat Era Who have been Mondasian.

So, the Cybermen we saw in 'Closing Time' were the last of the Telos (or Mondas) Cybermen in this universe .. or were they?

If it looks, talks and walks like a duck, it's most probably a duck.

I'm a hardcore David Banks Archivist theory (you'd have to read the 80s Cybermen book he did to understand) and in it he talks about divergences and unions of differing Cyberspecies. I wouldn't be surprised if some Cybermen from the battle of Canary Wharf fell through the void and landed in the lap of this universe's Cybermen (circa 27th Century), forming a new species built around this universe's policy of converting whole bodies (something the Cybusmen only did in emergency) and based on the chasis of the Cybusmen. This new species formed an empire deep in space and was invited/forced into helping with the Pandorica situation (using their (stolen?) time-travel technology to travel back in time to the Roman era, or even earlier to the construction of Stonehenge, where one Cybership crashed in the region of what would later be called Colchester).

While I'm on subject, it's worth noting that Mortimus/The Monk/The Time Meddler claimed a hand in building Stonehenge...either he's a liar or the Pandorica conspiracy may go deeper than we thought.

And that's me all geeked-out for the day and it's only breakfast time.
Last edited by Bass_Cadet : 25-09-2011 at 07:47

I'd say these were the Cybermen from Pete's world. I posted this on another thread after AGMGTW. According to the official BBC website, the Mondas Cybermen are said to have 'Died out' so that puts an end to the Cybermen in 'The Pandorica Opens' and 'A Good Man Goes to War' being Mondasmen.

As we already know, the 5 Million Cybermen who brawled with the Daleks at Canary Wharf were sucked into the void.When Davros and the Daleks tried to destroy all reality, this broke down the Void's barriers. The Daleks in the Void were presumably destroyed when 10.5 activated the Dalek Self destruct in 'Journeys End'. Most of the Cybermen were also destroyed during the Daleks experiments, but as we know one little group survived they fell to victorian London, presumably through the Canary Wharf rift and we all know what happened to that group.

Meanwhile, what's to say another group didn't escape? But bearing in mind the fact that the whoniverse is absolutely vast, and will keep going for trillions of years, this group of Cybusmen could have arrived anywhere at any time. And what if they arrived on a super advanced planet (I mean 'Humans only had fire and the wheel while we already had space travel' kind of advanced.) in the distant future? As we know, the Cybermen are capable of operating covertly, so they could have started converting the natives until they had a vast army big enough to take control. They then turned the whole species into a new race of Cybermen.

After doing this, they then salvaged all the natives technology, giving themselves Space Travel, Time Travel, Teleportation and advanced weapons among other things.

They then rose up and began to conquer more and more worlds, until they had a vast empire which was more powerful then the Mondasian empire could ever hope to be.

It is at this stage that they discovered about the Doctor, Time lords, Time War, ETC and joined The Alliance after they discovered the Cracks in Time. After the Doctor saved everyone, the Cybermen would eventually decide that as Lumic is dead and Cybus is closed, the Logo on their chest is 'Redundant' and remove it, leading to the Logo-Less Cybermen in 'A Good Man Goes to War.

BTW, I think the reason they had a different type of Conversion in 'Closing Time' was because they were low on power, the Cybusmen experimented with this type of conversion in 'Doomsday' and 'Cyberwoman'.

I'm not an expert and I might have imagined this, but I think Mondas was a twin planet of earth - or very similar. My rationale is in the parallel universe the Cybermen developed on Earth - not Mondas, and in my fawn**k mind, the Cybermen were the ones that crashed in Eartshock. The episode could only be bettered for me by the Doctor finding a crumbled gold badge!

Ii agree with both of you on this one

You're right, it was Earth's twin planet which had drifted away from the sun centuries ago and been wandering the solar system.