I don't usually use subtitles, but at points the dialogue was so far down in the mix that I decided to switch them on.

I was watching last week's episode on the Humax, recorded from BBC One SD.

They were mostly fine, but it was obvious that some were missed out. Maybe once a minute or less. It wasn't editorial/intentional - a couple of times the correct subs would appear on screen briefly then disappear. More often, the screen would be blank or the previous subtitles would remain on screen when the next sentence (or even the second half of the same sentence) was obviously supposed to be there.

Does anyone else get this? Signal strength and quality are fine (100/90).

I can't remember the last time I used subtitles on Freesat, so don't know if this is a one off or regular.

Cheers,
David.

And again this week. Anyone?

I'd love to help, but we record the Body Farm in HD so my wife can watch it at leisure later in the week. I didn't think the sub-titles got recorded? Perhaps I am wrong?

However, I have to agree that the dialogue seems to disappear into a fog of background noise at many points. We thought it was us (age related hearing!) however it seems the producers have dropped the dialogue too low to be audible. Is it deliberate, do you think, or just poor audio engineering or mixing?

I think the BBC should be told, but will they do anything about it...

I think at a very few points its intentional, and at several others its incompetence. I don't think I have the worst speakers or ears in the world (though probably not the best either!). Dialogue drowned by music and effects is one of the most common complaints the BBC receives.

I think the subtitles are always recorded on Freesat boxes. I'm going to try them on some other programmes to see if they have problems too, but when you don't need them, you just ignore them so don't notice little glitches.

Cheers,
David.

I don't see how they could not be recorded. Any pvr demuxes the data stream from the mutiplex and simply records this to the hard disc. Replay of the data from the hard disc recreates the original data stream as transmitted. It should be identical to the original live transmission.

In a transport stream, the bits of the various video tracks, audio tracks, subtitle tracks, data tracks etc all have different PIDs (packet IDs). A PVR typically pulls out only the packets it wants (e.g. one video, one audio) and saves them to disc. Better ones save the subtitles too. Very good ones save audio description as well. AFAIK all Freesat boxes always store subtitles and AD along with the video and audio.

Playback isn't necessarily the same as live. When there are gaps / errors, live vs recorded can be quite different, depending on the recovery algorithm. With live, you can't skip the gaps

I'll try recording the HD version next week to see if it's any different. Might even record SD+HD to see if there's any consistency. Wonder if the SD region makes any difference?

Cheers,
David.

Can confirm that I have the same issues on my Sky+ HD box on BBC channels ONLY.

When watching live the subtitles are mostly on time and a few missed ones do happen. When playing back a recording the subtitles appear several seconds before the speech; up to 10 seconds ahead, so you really cannot keep track.
Anyone know why the subtitles would be on time live but advanced in playback.
I had this problem on the Humax HDR when I had one.
I still have this problem now on the Technisat HDFS. Curiously if I select TXT subtitles the timing is fine; it's just a problem on the DVB subtitiles.
Does that help anyone to explain what is going on?

I've now discovered that live subtitles are just as bad as recorded ones (for missing occasional lines of text). Only tried BBC One SD. Only tried Humax STB.

FWIW I also noticed that some of the subtitles for "Ask Rod Gilbert" were wrong - not a technical glitch, just that the person typing them apparently couldn't hear as well as I can!

Might contact the BBC about the technical issue. Thanks for the post Captain Jack - I wonder how widespread this it?

Cheers,
David.

Not sure but I am pretty sure it affects all BBC channels on all platforms. I complained to the BBC but they aren't interested and blamed my "faulty" equipment.

Yes, they basically said it's either live subs, faulty STB or bad reception.

Full reply here...
https://groups.google.com/group/uk.t...5431ab5c?hl=en

...I haven't had chance to try it with another STB yet.

I suspect a more fruitful route would be to grab the transport stream and see exactly what's being sent. A nice investigation for the enthusiast with plenty of time, but shouldn't it be the BBC that does these checks?!

Cheers,
David.

Even if we find an issue in a TS, what do we do with this information? Doubt there's anyone at BBC capable of listening to its viewers who are forced to pay extortionate amounts for the license.

Quality of programming is actually generally quite good, but if you are deaf or hard of hearing then you can't watch it with poor subtitles.

Calm down Captain! There's some kind of technical fault (or at least, a confusion in interpretation of some specification). Maybe they won't go looking for it (though maybe they will now) - but if someone outside the BBC finds the specific problem, and lets the right people within the BBC know, they'll be on to whichever sub-contracted private company is responsible and get them to put it right.

I wonder if one of the folks who are expert at processing TS from capture cards can take a look?

Cheers,
David.

I am sure that someone is looking at this - and certainly subtitles are displayed at key part in play out and coding & mux ..(people looking at them).

There are now so many versions of everything that a single failure can be difficult to track down quickly -particularly if it is intermittent.
Sadly the most unreliable piece of equipment in the chain is the STB and thus the standard answer which clears almost all faults is "reset the STB."
But if there is a problem the more people the more who can accurately describe/ log it the easier it is for Red Bee, ATOS or whoever to sort out the problem.

Just to point out the BBC uniquely for any UK broadcaster send a teletext subtitle packet every 4 seconds whether a subtle is on air or not .... this is can Be automatically monitored at key points in what's a long chain so that if subtitle teletext stops it is picked up and after 10 seconds the is an on screen notification. this is also linked with clears and cleardowns at the end of every item.

While I agree that STB is the most likely cause - in this case, it isn't.

I will record a .ts with my VU+ Uno tonight and try playing it on my computer and see if I get the same subtitle glitching issues.