Have Apple lost it?

sammyvine · 04-10-2011, 21:57

Quote:

Where are these facts coming from? And don't say that Macs never gets viruses. They do. It's just that no-one can be bothered to make viruses for Macs because hardly anyone uses them. I also find the Office for Mac to be worse than the Windows version, and some programs don't even support Mac.

Apple made the same mistake with iOS which is why they are losing the mobile market. Support of OEMs is a very powerful thing.

Which is just my point.

It is much harder to get a virus on a Mac than on a Window's machine. Wouldn't that please you? I know people will throw in the argument, that you can protect yourself from getting a virus on a Window's machine by just being smart etc...but why should you have to go through all that.

Mac's are much faster as well, and their general performance is better than the majority of window's machines.

Zack06 · 04-10-2011, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

You are comparing hardware to software... If you compare mac sales then compare then to other hardware manufacturers such as HP, Sony, Dell.

Actually I'm comparing install bases. Mac OS is only installed on Macs, whereas Windows is installed on a multitude of manufacturers, therefore the sales of all them count as one as they use a common installed operating system.

Thine Wonk · 04-10-2011, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

No windows own more of the market because of the amount of different companies which use window's such as HP, Dell, Sony etc....

Mac computers are better than Window's on reliability etc...

Windows don't make computers so that makes no sense surely?

A high end Sony could be similar build quality, but anyway still doesn't make sense as Windows is the operating system.

Zack06 · 04-10-2011, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

Which is just my point.

It is much harder to get a virus on a Mac than on a Window's machine. Wouldn't that please you? I know people will throw in the argument, that you can protect yourself from getting a virus on a Window's machine by just being smart etc...but why should you have to go through all that.

Mac's are much faster as well, and their general performance is better than the majority of window's machines.

I don't believe that Macs are faster at all. Compare Lion with Windows 8 and Windows is faster.

I seldom have problems with viruses, and when I do, they are wiped out quickly, so its a bit of a non-issue really.

sammyvine · 04-10-2011, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Windows don't make computers so that makes no sense surely?

A high end Sony could be similar build quality, but anyway still doesn't make sense as Windows is the operating system.

Yeah but the better end Sony laptops are huge, bulky and ugly.

I know a lot of people hate Apple etc...but i think their computers are excellent. You also have to add their customer service which probs beats the likes of Sony and Dell.

sammyvine · 04-10-2011, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack06

I don't believe that Macs are faster at all. Compare Lion with Windows 8 and Windows is faster.

I seldom have problems with viruses, and when I do, they are wiped out quickly, so its a bit of a non-issue really.

Well personally having used a high end Dell laptop and switched to a Mac when they were doing the education discount thing, i found a huge difference in performance etc.... I love the track pad Mac's have, and all the cool things/shortcuts you can do. The screen is a lot clearer and the laptop itself looks much nicer.

I don't think i will ever go back to windows. This is just my opinion anyway.

Zack06 · 04-10-2011, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

Well personally having used a high end Dell laptop and switched to a Mac when they were doing the education discount thing, i found a huge difference in performance etc.... I love the track pad Mac's have, and all the cool things/shortcuts you can do. The screen is a lot clearer and the laptop itself looks much nicer.

I don't think i will ever go back to windows. This is just my opinion anyway.

Um ok, well clearly you didn't make the most of your Windows experience...

Personally I think that Macs feel dumbed down and a bit too user friendly for my liking, plus I find Finder disgustingly bad to use, and I don't like the native applications they supply at all.

I don't know how Mac can make the screen 'clearer' (

) but I find Windows is more direct than Mac and there is more access to the core of the operating system, making it easier to customise it to your own liking...

But this too is just my opinion

sammyvine · 04-10-2011, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack06

Um ok, well clearly you didn't make the most of your Windows experience...

Personally I think that Macs feel dumbed down and a bit too user friendly for my liking, plus I find Finder disgustingly bad to use, and I don't like the native applications they supply at all.

I don't know how Mac can make the screen 'clearer' (

) but I find Windows is more direct than Mac and there is more access to the core of the operating system, making it easier to customise it to your own liking...

But this too is just my opinion

LED screen perhaps. or maybe i phrased it wrong.

It's all opinion based but i really can't see how people can call Mac's poor computers, or justify Sony Vaio's etc...being better than them on performance etc...

Zack06 · 04-10-2011, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

LED screen perhaps. or maybe i phrased it wrong.

It's all opinion based but i really can't see how people can call Mac's poor computers, or justify Sony Vaio's etc...being better than them on performance etc...

I guess Macs are ok for light use or specialist tasks, but I'd just hate to use one as an everyday computer.

jjesso123 · 04-10-2011, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

Which is just my point.

It is much harder to get a virus on a Mac than on a Window's machine. Wouldn't that please you? I know people will throw in the argument, that you can protect yourself from getting a virus on a Window's machine by just being smart etc...but why should you have to go through all that.

Mac's are much faster as well, and their general performance is better than the majority of window's machines.

I and many windows owners do not get viruses. Its not exactly hard not go roaming around on dodgy websites these days. Especially with all bowers having security built in them.

No there not faster at all. Even though you pay twice the price you get quarter of performance spec wise. Yes lion has a few advantages but not worth the excessive price hike.

Apple computers and products in general are made for the very blonde people as proofed in this.

subversive · 04-10-2011, 22:15

nothing that the samsung s2 hasn't already got....apple has lost it....for now..until next year...

I think they under estimated the likes of samsung and htc...even blackberry..

I will be getting the blackberry bold 9900, it is a brilliant phone....the touch screen thing has worn off for me...

linkinpark875 · 04-10-2011, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by subversive

nothing that the samsung s2 hasn't already got....apple has lost it....for now..until next year...

I think they under estimated the likes of samsung and htc...even blackberry..

I will be getting the blackberry bold 9900, it is a brilliant phone....the touch screen thing has worn off for me...

I seen the first Galaxy it was massive compared to the Iphone 4. Not seen the new one but I imagine it's a brick of a phone. 80's retro style with a touch screen?

sammyvine · 04-10-2011, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjesso123

I and many windows owners do not get viruses. Its not exactly hard not go roaming around on dodgy websites these days. Especially with all bowers having security built in them.

No there not faster at all. Even though you pay twice the price you get quarter of performance spec wise. Yes lion has a few advantages but not worth the excessive price hike.

So what laptop for £840, the price i got my Mac for would you recommend.

babinaba · 04-10-2011, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

Having an iPhone is a fashion statement. In the long term Apple may become the victim of its own success. Every man and his dog have one so its really not an exclusive product as it once was. Maybe one day the public will wake up and smell the coffee and realise its no longer trendy to have an iPhone. Much like its no longer trendy to buy duffel coats.

and that is the reason why I have never and will never own an iphone

jjesso123 · 04-10-2011, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkinpark875

I seen the first Galaxy it was massive compared to the Iphone 4. Not seen the new one but I imagine it's a brick of a phone. 80's retro style with a touch screen?

its bigger I would not say a brick size but I can see how could be problem for some.

jjesso123 · 04-10-2011, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

So what laptop for £840, the price i got my Mac for would you recommend.

That would completely depend on what you where after. In most cases you would only need around £500 to match the build quality and the specs.

Zack06 · 04-10-2011, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkinpark875

I seen the first Galaxy it was massive compared to the Iphone 4. Not seen the new one but I imagine it's a brick of a phone. 80's retro style with a touch screen?

The Samsung Galaxy S2 is 8.9mm thin compared to 9.3mm for the iPhone 4S. Not exactly a brick is it?

*MikeB* · 04-10-2011, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Microkorg

Got rid of my iPhone today, and went to Android
I would have bought an iPhone 5, but not bothered about a 4S

Me too, and it's just not as good. I really do prefer iOS and that's why I'll be buying the 4S.

linkinpark875 · 04-10-2011, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjesso123

its bigger I would not say a brick size but I can see how could be problem for some.

Galaxy tab is 7" though why would you want a big phone screen when cheap tablets are out there?

edEx · 04-10-2011, 23:18

I'm wondering if Samsung's threats about patent infringement put paid to the iPhone 5 launch until the legal battles are resolved.

I'll be getting a 4S when they come out. From a 3GS it's a reasonable upgrade and my partner keeps nagging me because he wants my old iPhone. It's actually good for me that the launch was a bit underwhelming as it means I'm more likely to get one quickly

subversive · 04-10-2011, 23:23

I think this is a trend which apple is making for creating more profits...

iphone 3g, 3gs, 4g, 4gs, 5g, 5gs, 6g, 6gs, etc, etc

The "S" stands for "solved", as the iPhone 4 had problems...they have been fixed on solved in 4gS...

it is a abit shitty to have a phone with problems and the manufacturer isn't going to do anything about it........no they will, they will release a new phone with the problems solved and you can buy the new one...why because your made of money...

I have a iPhone 4 and I use it more to play games and calling less...touch screen is over hyped

I can imagine iPhone 10 - with sliding keyboard...a Revolution....

edEx · 04-10-2011, 23:30

You may as well slag off Intel for their processor refresh cycles being all about profits then. It's the same scheduling they employ. One architecture update, then a refinement, then back to an architecture update etc.

Having been a Mac user for more than two decades now I always stay well clear of Apple's new form factors. The first gen designs always have issues. Looks like it's the same thing with their phones.

Stiggles · 04-10-2011, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

Yeah but the better end Sony laptops are huge, bulky and ugly.

I know a lot of people hate Apple etc...but i think their computers are excellent. You also have to add their customer service which probs beats the likes of Sony and Dell.

'Which probs beats sony and dell'?

In other words your pulling stuff from your arse now. I think apple computers are rubbish, made by a low end, suicide rife company called foxconn. Clue is in the name. Its bargain basement stuff sold at a shockingly high price.

Anyway, back on to the iphone. The very fact their stock has shot down $13 is testament to apples mistake today. Bring out a phone that's identical to the last with a few upgrades inside. Madness.

Zack06 · 04-10-2011, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

'Which probs beats sony and dell'?

In other words your pulling stuff from your arse now. I think apple computers are rubbish, made by a low end, suicide rife company called foxconn. Clue is in the name. Its bargain basement stuff sold at a shockingly high price.

Anyway, back on to the iphone. The very fact their stock has shot down $13 is testament to apples mistake today. Bring out a phone that's identical to the last with a few upgrades inside. Madness.

You wait. Next Tuesday people will be laughing in Apple's face when the Nexus Prime is announced.

They missed a huge opportunity to get ahead of Android, but instead, they've just made Google and Samsung's upcoming launch all the more sweet.

Google's announcement will undoubtedly impress more, Nexus Prime + Ice Cream Sandwich will show why Apple has lost it, and messed up big time with the new iPhone.

It's another slip up for them.

edEx · 04-10-2011, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

Anyway, back on to the iphone. The very fact their stock has shot down $13 is testament to apples mistake today.

The stock is only down $2,not $13.

04-10-2011, 21:57	#26
sammyvine Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,959	Quote: Originally Posted by Zack06 Where are these facts coming from? And don't say that Macs never gets viruses. They do. It's just that no-one can be bothered to make viruses for Macs because hardly anyone uses them. I also find the Office for Mac to be worse than the Windows version, and some programs don't even support Mac. Apple made the same mistake with iOS which is why they are losing the mobile market. Support of OEMs is a very powerful thing. Which is just my point. It is much harder to get a virus on a Mac than on a Window's machine. Wouldn't that please you? I know people will throw in the argument, that you can protect yourself from getting a virus on a Window's machine by just being smart etc...but why should you have to go through all that. Mac's are much faster as well, and their general performance is better than the majority of window's machines.

04-10-2011, 22:08	#32
Zack06 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27,438	Quote: Originally Posted by sammyvine Well personally having used a high end Dell laptop and switched to a Mac when they were doing the education discount thing, i found a huge difference in performance etc.... I love the track pad Mac's have, and all the cool things/shortcuts you can do. The screen is a lot clearer and the laptop itself looks much nicer. I don't think i will ever go back to windows. This is just my opinion anyway. Um ok, well clearly you didn't make the most of your Windows experience... Personally I think that Macs feel dumbed down and a bit too user friendly for my liking, plus I find Finder disgustingly bad to use, and I don't like the native applications they supply at all. I don't know how Mac can make the screen 'clearer' () but I find Windows is more direct than Mac and there is more access to the core of the operating system, making it easier to customise it to your own liking... But this too is just my opinion

04-10-2011, 22:11	#33
sammyvine Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,959	Quote: Originally Posted by Zack06 Um ok, well clearly you didn't make the most of your Windows experience... Personally I think that Macs feel dumbed down and a bit too user friendly for my liking, plus I find Finder disgustingly bad to use, and I don't like the native applications they supply at all. I don't know how Mac can make the screen 'clearer' () but I find Windows is more direct than Mac and there is more access to the core of the operating system, making it easier to customise it to your own liking... But this too is just my opinion LED screen perhaps. or maybe i phrased it wrong. It's all opinion based but i really can't see how people can call Mac's poor computers, or justify Sony Vaio's etc...being better than them on performance etc...

04-10-2011, 21:57	#27
Zack06 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27,438	Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond You are comparing hardware to software... If you compare mac sales then compare then to other hardware manufacturers such as HP, Sony, Dell. Actually I'm comparing install bases. Mac OS is only installed on Macs, whereas Windows is installed on a multitude of manufacturers, therefore the sales of all them count as one as they use a common installed operating system.

04-10-2011, 21:58	#28
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by sammyvine No windows own more of the market because of the amount of different companies which use window's such as HP, Dell, Sony etc.... Mac computers are better than Window's on reliability etc... Windows don't make computers so that makes no sense surely? A high end Sony could be similar build quality, but anyway still doesn't make sense as Windows is the operating system.

04-10-2011, 22:02	#29
Zack06 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27,438	Quote: Originally Posted by sammyvine Which is just my point. It is much harder to get a virus on a Mac than on a Window's machine. Wouldn't that please you? I know people will throw in the argument, that you can protect yourself from getting a virus on a Window's machine by just being smart etc...but why should you have to go through all that. Mac's are much faster as well, and their general performance is better than the majority of window's machines. I don't believe that Macs are faster at all. Compare Lion with Windows 8 and Windows is faster. I seldom have problems with viruses, and when I do, they are wiped out quickly, so its a bit of a non-issue really.

04-10-2011, 22:02	#30
sammyvine Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,959	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk Windows don't make computers so that makes no sense surely? A high end Sony could be similar build quality, but anyway still doesn't make sense as Windows is the operating system. Yeah but the better end Sony laptops are huge, bulky and ugly. I know a lot of people hate Apple etc...but i think their computers are excellent. You also have to add their customer service which probs beats the likes of Sony and Dell.

04-10-2011, 22:04	#31
sammyvine Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,959	Quote: Originally Posted by Zack06 I don't believe that Macs are faster at all. Compare Lion with Windows 8 and Windows is faster. I seldom have problems with viruses, and when I do, they are wiped out quickly, so its a bit of a non-issue really. Well personally having used a high end Dell laptop and switched to a Mac when they were doing the education discount thing, i found a huge difference in performance etc.... I love the track pad Mac's have, and all the cool things/shortcuts you can do. The screen is a lot clearer and the laptop itself looks much nicer. I don't think i will ever go back to windows. This is just my opinion anyway.

04-10-2011, 22:13	#34
Zack06 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27,438	Quote: Originally Posted by sammyvine LED screen perhaps. or maybe i phrased it wrong. It's all opinion based but i really can't see how people can call Mac's poor computers, or justify Sony Vaio's etc...being better than them on performance etc... I guess Macs are ok for light use or specialist tasks, but I'd just hate to use one as an everyday computer.

04-10-2011, 22:15	#35
jjesso123 Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,505	Quote: Originally Posted by sammyvine Which is just my point. It is much harder to get a virus on a Mac than on a Window's machine. Wouldn't that please you? I know people will throw in the argument, that you can protect yourself from getting a virus on a Window's machine by just being smart etc...but why should you have to go through all that. Mac's are much faster as well, and their general performance is better than the majority of window's machines. I and many windows owners do not get viruses. Its not exactly hard not go roaming around on dodgy websites these days. Especially with all bowers having security built in them. No there not faster at all. Even though you pay twice the price you get quarter of performance spec wise. Yes lion has a few advantages but not worth the excessive price hike. Apple computers and products in general are made for the very blonde people as proofed in this.

04-10-2011, 22:15	#36
subversive Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: London Posts: 2,749	nothing that the samsung s2 hasn't already got....apple has lost it....for now..until next year... I think they under estimated the likes of samsung and htc...even blackberry.. I will be getting the blackberry bold 9900, it is a brilliant phone....the touch screen thing has worn off for me...

04-10-2011, 22:17	#37
linkinpark875 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 24,424	Quote: Originally Posted by subversive nothing that the samsung s2 hasn't already got....apple has lost it....for now..until next year... I think they under estimated the likes of samsung and htc...even blackberry.. I will be getting the blackberry bold 9900, it is a brilliant phone....the touch screen thing has worn off for me... I seen the first Galaxy it was massive compared to the Iphone 4. Not seen the new one but I imagine it's a brick of a phone. 80's retro style with a touch screen?

04-10-2011, 22:17	#38
sammyvine Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,959	Quote: Originally Posted by jjesso123 I and many windows owners do not get viruses. Its not exactly hard not go roaming around on dodgy websites these days. Especially with all bowers having security built in them. No there not faster at all. Even though you pay twice the price you get quarter of performance spec wise. Yes lion has a few advantages but not worth the excessive price hike. So what laptop for £840, the price i got my Mac for would you recommend.

04-10-2011, 22:18	#39
babinaba Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,388	Quote: Originally Posted by Everything Goes Having an iPhone is a fashion statement. In the long term Apple may become the victim of its own success. Every man and his dog have one so its really not an exclusive product as it once was. Maybe one day the public will wake up and smell the coffee and realise its no longer trendy to have an iPhone. Much like its no longer trendy to buy duffel coats. and that is the reason why I have never and will never own an iphone

04-10-2011, 22:19	#40
jjesso123 Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,505	Quote: Originally Posted by linkinpark875 I seen the first Galaxy it was massive compared to the Iphone 4. Not seen the new one but I imagine it's a brick of a phone. 80's retro style with a touch screen? its bigger I would not say a brick size but I can see how could be problem for some.

04-10-2011, 22:22	#41
jjesso123 Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,505	Quote: Originally Posted by sammyvine So what laptop for £840, the price i got my Mac for would you recommend. That would completely depend on what you where after. In most cases you would only need around £500 to match the build quality and the specs.

04-10-2011, 22:25	#42
Zack06 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27,438	Quote: Originally Posted by linkinpark875 I seen the first Galaxy it was massive compared to the Iphone 4. Not seen the new one but I imagine it's a brick of a phone. 80's retro style with a touch screen? The Samsung Galaxy S2 is 8.9mm thin compared to 9.3mm for the iPhone 4S. Not exactly a brick is it?

04-10-2011, 22:37	#43
MikeB Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 4,807	Quote: Originally Posted by Microkorg Got rid of my iPhone today, and went to Android I would have bought an iPhone 5, but not bothered about a 4S Me too, and it's just not as good. I really do prefer iOS and that's why I'll be buying the 4S.

04-10-2011, 23:00	#44
linkinpark875 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 24,424	Quote: Originally Posted by jjesso123 its bigger I would not say a brick size but I can see how could be problem for some. Galaxy tab is 7" though why would you want a big phone screen when cheap tablets are out there?

04-10-2011, 23:18	#45
edEx Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Londres, Tierra del Fuego Posts: 12,952	I'm wondering if Samsung's threats about patent infringement put paid to the iPhone 5 launch until the legal battles are resolved. I'll be getting a 4S when they come out. From a 3GS it's a reasonable upgrade and my partner keeps nagging me because he wants my old iPhone. It's actually good for me that the launch was a bit underwhelming as it means I'm more likely to get one quickly

04-10-2011, 23:23	#46
subversive Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: London Posts: 2,749	I think this is a trend which apple is making for creating more profits... iphone 3g, 3gs, 4g, 4gs, 5g, 5gs, 6g, 6gs, etc, etc The "S" stands for "solved", as the iPhone 4 had problems...they have been fixed on solved in 4gS... it is a abit shitty to have a phone with problems and the manufacturer isn't going to do anything about it........no they will, they will release a new phone with the problems solved and you can buy the new one...why because your made of money... I have a iPhone 4 and I use it more to play games and calling less...touch screen is over hyped I can imagine iPhone 10 - with sliding keyboard...a Revolution....

04-10-2011, 23:30	#47
edEx Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Londres, Tierra del Fuego Posts: 12,952	You may as well slag off Intel for their processor refresh cycles being all about profits then. It's the same scheduling they employ. One architecture update, then a refinement, then back to an architecture update etc. Having been a Mac user for more than two decades now I always stay well clear of Apple's new form factors. The first gen designs always have issues. Looks like it's the same thing with their phones.

04-10-2011, 23:38	#48
Stiggles Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Dundee, Scotland Posts: 9,293	Quote: Originally Posted by sammyvine Yeah but the better end Sony laptops are huge, bulky and ugly. I know a lot of people hate Apple etc...but i think their computers are excellent. You also have to add their customer service which probs beats the likes of Sony and Dell. 'Which probs beats sony and dell'? In other words your pulling stuff from your arse now. I think apple computers are rubbish, made by a low end, suicide rife company called foxconn. Clue is in the name. Its bargain basement stuff sold at a shockingly high price. Anyway, back on to the iphone. The very fact their stock has shot down $13 is testament to apples mistake today. Bring out a phone that's identical to the last with a few upgrades inside. Madness.

DS Forums

Have Apple lost it?

04-10-2011, 23:41	#49
Zack06 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27,438	Quote: Originally Posted by Stiggles 'Which probs beats sony and dell'? In other words your pulling stuff from your arse now. I think apple computers are rubbish, made by a low end, suicide rife company called foxconn. Clue is in the name. Its bargain basement stuff sold at a shockingly high price. Anyway, back on to the iphone. The very fact their stock has shot down $13 is testament to apples mistake today. Bring out a phone that's identical to the last with a few upgrades inside. Madness. You wait. Next Tuesday people will be laughing in Apple's face when the Nexus Prime is announced. They missed a huge opportunity to get ahead of Android, but instead, they've just made Google and Samsung's upcoming launch all the more sweet. Google's announcement will undoubtedly impress more, Nexus Prime + Ice Cream Sandwich will show why Apple has lost it, and messed up big time with the new iPhone. It's another slip up for them.

04-10-2011, 23:43	#50
edEx Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Londres, Tierra del Fuego Posts: 12,952	Quote: Originally Posted by Stiggles Anyway, back on to the iphone. The very fact their stock has shot down $13 is testament to apples mistake today. The stock is only down $2,not $13.