[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by David (2)

not as part of this cut back, as most people dont yet have HD reception of any kind. In the future on freeview there wll be a point in time ("HD Switchover") where SD will be axed and the space left will be reused for HD stuff.

Except of course there is no plan for any such HD switchover as yet, I don't think that the DCMS or Ofcom have even floated it

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by joshua_welby

That is totally incorrect for two reasons, everything on BBC2 HD will be in HD

Reason 1

The BBC has already stated that they are moving slowly to all HD Production from 2012, so after 2012 everything will be in HD on BBC1 and BBC2

Except for archive material of course, and any acquired material that is only in SD.

[joshua_welby]

Originally Posted by lbear

First, the cost of Freeview HD boxes has come down to the point there is now only £10 difference between the cost of the cheapest Freeview and cheapest Freeview HD boxes.

The best solution would be to stop the auction of one of the new muxes and allocate it to a COM HD mux, returning the existing HD mux to the BBC. That would allow all BBC TV channels to move to it, with News, Parliament and Alba staying in SD.

DVB-T switchoff should start ASAP with a completion target of 2020. The 5 PSB channels and radio should move to a single DVB-T mux for "legacy" equipment.

I agree with all you say, except I would like BBC News and BBC Parliament to be in HD too, like Sky News is in HD now and of course Sky Sports News is in HD too

One day there will only HD channels, but this could take up to another 15 years approx, we are nearly already 6 years in from the HD era which started in March 2006

[technologist]

Originally Posted by paul_m

Also wrong. Even if all new programming is in HD from 2012, .

programme delivery for ALL non news BBC channels has been HD only from April THIS YEAR .. not next ... and From 2012 Sports and News will be HD ..

[joshua_welby]

Originally Posted by technologist

programme delivery for ALL non news BBC channels has been HD only from April THIS YEAR .. not next ... and From 2012 Sports and News will be HD ..

Thanks for that

[reslfj]

Originally Posted by paul_m

Wrong. When another multiplex moves to DVB-T2, or when the SD simulcasts get removed, then more HD channels will come to Freeview.

And it will come sooner rather than later.

Come 2013 /post the Olympics / post DSO and a lot of new TV sets installed - converting PSB-2 (D3&4) to DVB-T2 and collecting 7-8 MPEG-2 channels on PBS-1 (BBCA) will not generate much noise.

PSB-2 D3&4 could then carry say 3 HD channels and 10 SD channels.
PSB-3 BBCB, maybe BBC1-BBC4 in HD and 5 SD channels.

Note that long term the 600 MHz band will be needed for HD capacity - but converting PSB-2 to DVB-T2 is not much more than 80 (+ a few for SFN relays) new DVB-T2 modulator bords.
Not expensive and very easy to install, some of the later transmitters may well be able to process DVB-T2 as is, just by a tick on a PC screen.

New MPEG4-stat-muxing will be needed - money needed - yes, but very fast to implement - post DSO.

Installing new 600 MHz DTT networks will require new transmitters and may even require new antennas - and will be much slower to implement.

Lars

I think Herman's Hermits say it better than Ray:
It may not be exactly 'tonight' and it may not be 'all over the world' - but with DVB-T2

'There is a kind of hush'
...
'you know what I mean'

[Ray Cathode]

What no one has acknowledged is that from 2012 when BBC TWO HD starts, there will be no outlet for other BBC HD content from other channels such as children's programming. BBC HD showed HD from all BBC channels. The report says that both BBC ONE & BBC TWO will lose its traditional afternoon children's strands because everyone will be able to get CBeebies & CBBC.

Converting a mux to DVB-T2 is possible but has not been mentioned in the report. IMHO it is unlikely before 2015 or even later. In any case the BBC A mux will be the last to convert because of legacy issues. So in the interim period 2012-???? there will be a substantial loss of BBC non mainstream HD programming which was formerly carried on BBC HD.

A final thought. Why is S4C Clirlun able to broadcast in HD but not the BBC HD channel?

I prefer those well known Swedish lyrics "Money, money money"

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by Ray Cathode

So in the interim period 2012-???? there will be a substantial loss of BBC non mainstream HD programming which was formerly carried on BBC HD.

When I get home, I must tot up the number of BBC 3 and 4 programmes that are shown in HD on BBC HD. I don't think it's actually that many, is it ? (I exclude repeat showings)

However, it does seem that BBC 3 and 4 will have a closer relationship with BBC 1 and 2, so that will help. Also, why not use the 'dead hours' overnight on BBC 2 to show HD stuff from 3 and 4 for those of us with HD PVRs ?

[Ray Cathode]

Originally Posted by Mark C

When I get home, I must tot up the number of BBC 3 and 4 programmes that are shown in HD on BBC HD. I don't think it's actually that many, is it ? (I exclude repeat showings)

However, it does seem that BBC 3 and 4 will have a closer relationship with BBC 1 and 2, so that will help. Also, why not use the 'dead hours' overnight on BBC 2 to show HD stuff from 3 and 4 for those of us with HD PVRs ?

What about Children's programming? Conspicuously absent from your post.

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by Ray Cathode

What about Children's programming? Conspicuously absent from your post.

Not deliberate, not being a child, and with both our children in their 20s, I don't pay any attention to it. I assume a fair bit of it is carried on BBC HD then ?

[lundavra]

Originally Posted by lundavra

Where is that written, it sounds as if someone has summarised the report incorrectly. I read the original as just that BBC HD will be BBC2 HD.

Incidentally Freeview will have an advantage over FreeSat as BBC1 regional programmes in England will not be on satellite and only on Freeview.

Originally Posted by figrin_dan

The BBC Ariel link on the OP

Sorry, I was reading the full report rather than a summary written by a journalist.

[Ethel_Fred]

Seems absurd to put repeats and news onto BBC2 HD when there are plenty of programs recorded in HD that are shown on BBC3, 4 & the children's channels

Wonder if I'll have an HD option for all channels on iPlayer?

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by Ethel_Fred

Seems absurd to put repeats and news onto BBC2 HD when there are plenty of programs recorded in HD that are shown on BBC3, 4 & the children's channels

The problem with showing probably most of BBC 3's output, and probably quite a bit of 4's during the day, is that it's post watershed content ?

[figrin_dan]

Originally Posted by lundavra

Sorry, I was reading the full report rather than a summary written by a journalist.

I read the only links referred to by the OP; as that was what they chose to share, I thought it only polite.

[TelevisionUser]

Originally Posted by mad_dude

A huge mistake by the BBC. I don't think they should have launched BBC One HD either. It should have been a second HD channel that showed HD content from all the BBC channels.

But what choice did they have, mad_dude? The Murdochs wanted the BBC crippled as a rival and their poodle, Culture Secretary *unt, duly obliged with a swingeing licence fee settlement and this situation is all their fault and not the BBC's.

It's a pity that the News of the World scandal didn't happen earlier as the Murdochs' pernicious influence would have been curtailed sooner. It's also a pity for viewers because the BBC HD channel showed different content from BBC1 and BBC2 and that extra channel will now disappear.

PS Happy Birthday to the OP!

[marty111]

A Short summary of what changes will happen at the BBC:

BBC2's existing daytime schedule will be scrapped, replaced by international news and current affairs at lunchtime and repeats in the afternoon. Both BBC3 and BBC4 will be "refocused" to play a supporting role to BBC1 and BBC2 respectively. There will also be fewer entertainment programmes and overseas acquisitions.

It is also proposing that children's programmes such as Blue Peter will be dropped from BBC1, airing exclusively on its two dedicated digital channels, CBBC and CBeebies, sometime after the whole country has moved switched over to digital television in 2012.

On radio, there will be greater sharing of news bulletins across networks with Radio 5 Live, which has recently been expanding its entertainment programmes, refocussed on a "core output of news and sport".

Radio 3 faces cuts to lunchtime concertsand live music, and the BBC's orchestras and singers will be "reviewed". The Proms will not be affected
Local radio will also be hit, with a focus on peak-time programmes and more syndicated programmes across neighbouring stations.

All new first-run daytime programming will be run on BBC1, with BBC2's daytime schedule given over to repeats of "outstanding" shows which have already run in peak.

The sports rights budgets will be cut by 15%, with a reduction in the amount of money it spends on overseas drama and films. The entertainment budget will also be cut, focused on "programmes which have lower impact that the big events on BBC1, as well as some entertainment on BBC2".

[a516]

DQF confirms that there will be separate national versions of BBC One HD for viewers in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. There are no plans to regionalise BBC Two HD or to provide the English Regions on BBC One HD.

From the consultation document:

In England no region specific services would be carried on BBC One HD. Ways to minimise disruption to viewers when switching between HD and SD to access programmes made for their particular area would be investigated

In addition, it's possible that all English regions in the future will only be broadcast on Freeview, with the number possibly being reduced on digital satellite.

[mossy2103]

I thought that the necessary infrastructure changes were already under way for regional programming on BBC one HD for London and the Midlands (to be completed by the year-end)?

[David (2)]

sounds like a roadmap of changes ahead then.

I wont be changing any more tv's (in this economic climate) in this house in order to get FreeviewHD built in.

[Colin_London]

Originally Posted by a516

DQF confirms that there will be separate national versions of BBC One HD for viewers in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. There are no plans to regionalise BBC Two HD or to provide the English Regions on BBC One HD.

To summarise what I understand from the document:

BBC One HD will be in four variants only: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland. (This does mean that the BBC will have to buy more satellite capacity to broadcast the four HD nations feeds via Astra 28.2E.).

Viewers in England will have to switch to SD to watch local regional programming, although ways to simplify this process will be looked at (probably either a 'Red Button' action or even automated using MHEG). No suggestion that the current situation of the 'red slide' on BBC One HD in England during regional programming will change.

BBC Two HD will be one UK variant only (no change over the current BBC HD distribution arrangements).

Viewers in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland will have to switch to SD to see national variations (although in this case it probably couldn't be automatic or viewers would lose the ability to continue watching the UK feed).

The number of BBC One English Regional variations will be reduced via satellite, with viewers wanting some of the smaller regions having to revert to DTT. Although the trust says that the regional structure will continue this will affect the long term viability of those regions that are taken off satellite - satellite viewers are just not going to switch to DTT to watch their local news!

[a516]

Originally Posted by Colin_London

To summarise what I understand from the document:

BBC One HD will be in four variants only: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland. (This does mean that the BBC will have to buy more satellite capacity to broadcast the four HD nations feeds via Astra 28.2E.).

With the closing of more red button streams next year and if they kick off ITV1 Meridian HD from the BBC HD transponder that's a couple of slots available for HD without buying any more transponder space!

As I've posted over in the Freesat forum, the regions earmarked by closure on satellite must be regions where the transmitter covers all of the editorial area and 99%+ of the viewers can access a terrestrial signal with the right region. So not, for example, the South West (Hills, N Devon: Wales region instead of South West) or the East Midlands (Hills, many parts receive Yorks or W Mids but not E Mids terrestrially). And not even NE and Cumbria (Hills)!

[dragon-it]

Originally Posted by Ray Cathode

What about Children's programming? Conspicuously absent from your post.

Well judging by most of the stuff on Cbeebies at least, aside from the "liveish" links most series have been around a couple of hundred times, some still old 4:3 material etc. and doubt HD would do much for toddlers than non-HD. There may be more of a case for older kids stuff on CBBC I suppose.

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by Colin_London

BBC Two HD will be one UK variant only (no change over the current BBC HD distribution arrangements).

I'd read somewhere, that BBC 2 national opts were to be wound down anyway ?

[lbear]

Originally Posted by dragon-it

Well judging by most of the stuff on Cbeebies at least, aside from the "liveish" links most series have been around a couple of hundred times, some still old 4:3 material etc. and doubt HD would do much for toddlers than non-HD. There may be more of a case for older kids stuff on CBBC I suppose.

There is quite a lot of HD in children's programming. Remember the proposal is for it to be removed from BBC1. Which rather makes the recent fanfare about Blue Peter's move to Salford and HD production a bit of a nonsense.

[kasg]

Well I'm quite disappointed about this. There isn't enough HD content to fill the current BBC HD channel as it is and now we lose the HD simulcast of programmes on BBC Three and BBC Four. I don't like it.