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Does Len hate Aliona?


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Old 08-10-2011, 23:26
SCD-Observer
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I disagree but that's fine. Gavin was terrible, regardless of Katya's choreography. She didn't hide how bad he was, he still got bad scores most weeks and most people complained about his "dancing". But a lot of people said they voted for him cos he was hot.

But anyway, we all vote for different reasons.
I didn't vote for Gavin BTW. I thought his waltz was fantastic (I had very low expectations though). His other dance weren't that good but Katya did try to bring out the best in Gavin, though I agree that Gavin was NOT a natural mover.

Matt is not a bad looking chap either. He works hard and he had natural talent. So when he had Kara who's basically the female version of him (i.e. good looking and had natural dance talent) then it boils down to how the audience perceived to be more pleasing the choreography was. Of course, some idiots out there might vote for Artem's chest, but I doubt there were enough of those idiots to make Kara win. I actually thought despite some questionable choreography of Artem (his AS was one such example) Artem did a much better job in keeping with the spirit/rule of the choreography than Aliona to clinch that trophy from her.

My take of course...
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:27
BuddyBontheNet
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How can you explain terrible people like Gavin getting far? Certainly wasn't dancing.

What I am trying to say is that people voted for matt because they thought he was a great dancers. Other people are voted for because of different reasons. But I rarely think choreography or pros come into it.
Gavin got far PRECISELY because Katya was EXCELLENT in her choreography and hid Gavin's sins and showcased his best, how ever little his best might be.

...
Agree 100% here with SCD-O.

For someone who hadn't danced before, I thought Rav was doing well up to that point. Cant blame him for believing Len, as Rav wouldn't know who was right, but judges criticism of a professional can damage theprofessionals relationship with the celeb.
I think the problem with Rav was that he was her first celeb on the show and she fell into the trap of not concentrating on showcasing her celeb and looking too good along side him. A few pros on SCD and on DWTS have done the same thing - it's an experience thing.
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:28
Jurre
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Hello- newbie here *waves*

I really must side with Len on this one. If you're a professional dancer- you have to listen to any sort of critique to help guide your partner through to the finals- especially ones as talented as Matt and Harry! Shunning their advice on ITT, basically sticking two fingers up and saying "I know better than you" Is nothing short of disrespectful and rude- no matter how many pre conditions she puts on it. Aliona is modern and may clash with Len's criticisms, but that doesn't mean it's outdated advice he gives- it's ways for her professional to develop, which is the ethos of the show- not to try further her own personal endeavours; which, to me, comes across as a tad selfish... Nice to see her put in her place- maybe an apology this week, and a bit more respect in the future to the advantage of Harry- who really could (and should) make it to at least the semi's if she taps into even part of his potential

Rant over
But Len offers little advice as he doesn't want to be "nasty".
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:29
BuddyBontheNet
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I hope you are right. And don't tempt her with the props Buddy!

I'll probably have to eat my words next week! Mind you it is a themed week and a prop or two might fit in well with some Broadway numbers!
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:30
attackmusic
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As I said before, my problem is that Len only called Aliona out for this when many other pros have said the same thing, without saying they respect the judges like she did.

I guess he doesn't like people who he thinks disrespects him. That's why he has had many spats with Brendan (that and Brendan being an idiot).
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:32
olivej
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I think she said on It Takes Too she does not care what the judges tell her, and I dont blame her, they are all over the place
This is what she actually said on ITT

"in general I listen to the judges comments and I respect them but I kinda dont take them on board"
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:32
BuddyBontheNet
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As I said before, my problem is that Len only called Aliona out for this when many other pros have said the same thing, without saying they respect the judges like she did.

I guess he doesn't like people who he thinks disrespects him. That's why he has had many spats with Brendan (that and Brendan being an idiot).
Over the years though Len has called out other pros including Brendan.
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:33
Damahepa
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But Len offers little advice as he doesn't want to be "nasty".
But then again can anything be said of the others? Alesha never gives any technical detail- Craig- though I agree with almost every mark he gives- seems to overload with the improvements. For me, Bruno is perhaps the best- giving critique, but in a flamboyant style so he's not turned on.

Len- to give him his dues, gives probably just shy of enough. He points out obvious technical flaws- but doesn't get pernickety- he fits very nicely in the middle of Craig and Alesha- he seems more understanding over nerves and the learning process than Craig, but provides at least SOME technical appraisal. I think maybe he feels if he goes to the same lengths as Craig does, celebs may get disheartened. At least with CRH it's very much a panto villain type thing- which seems to suit him down to the ground!
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:34
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I don't care how simple and answer is, I only expect it to be clear. If you don't want to engage with me you don't have to reply at all.
I don't think you want to be engaged at all. You don't seem to want to accept that there are vast number of forumites out there that weren't thrilled with Aliona's choreography for her celeb partners. Rav was a red herring. I agreed he was bad and he had a personality of a toilet roll cardboard, but Matt had SO much potential and going by how people kept saying most viewers/voters of SCD were women, Matt could have easily walked it last year.

Matt's flippin' back flippping was UNNECESSARY for the dances he did. What is he, a freakin' seal? Alright first week, he needed to get people's attention with the cha-cha, but what's with that silly binoculars, stupid backpack and wellington boots that Aliona was wearing??? It made Matt look like a leacher stalking Aliona, the lap dancer on a holiday in Lapland. Not the prettiest sight.

And what's with that JUMP Aliona did with Matt's foxtrot as if she wanted him to ravish her on the dancefloor? What was that all about?

Rubbish, chavish choreography that's what!
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:37
fatskia
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Aliona's choreography went down very well on the tour.
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:37
doolols
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Len was deeply unprofessional tonight. When Craig criticises, he criticises the dancing, not the dancer. Aliona made a general comment about the judges, he made a personal comment. I think he should be made to apologise.

He's an arrogant old man, whose marking is often (as someone else said) affected by Craig's marks. His comments to Harry were ridiculous. He plays the kindly old man to some people "Yes, there are some things that could be approved, but overall I think you did a good job". He constantly plays to the audience, and I think it's time for him to move on, as well as Mr. Forsythe. And some of his comments to the women border on the perverted (both of them).
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:38
attackmusic
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He also is kinda biased in his scores. He always overmarks sportsman!
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:40
Jurre
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But then again can anything be said of the others? Alesha never gives any technical detail- Craig- though I agree with almost every mark he gives- seems to overload with the improvements. For me, Bruno is perhaps the best- giving critique, but in a flamboyant style so he's not turned on.

Len- to give him his dues, gives probably just shy of enough. He points out obvious technical flaws- but doesn't get pernickety- he fits very nicely in the middle of Craig and Alesha- he seems more understanding over nerves and the learning process than Craig, but provides at least SOME technical appraisal. I think maybe he feels if he goes to the same lengths as Craig does, celebs may get disheartened. At least with CRH it's very much a panto villain type thing- which seems to suit him down to the ground!
I do agree. Craig can be an overload of things to correct, as he wants nothing shy of perfection.
Len does have some points of criticism and understands that couples need to be supported, but it irritates me how he sometimes scorns Craig on what he says.

Alesha's is just there to say: you're great blabla...

Bruno does indeed give good measured advice, but it sometimes drowns in his overly flamboyant metaphors.
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:43
Damahepa
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Len was deeply unprofessional tonight. When Craig criticises, he criticises the dancing, not the dancer. Aliona made a general comment about the judges, he made a personal comment. I think he should be made to apologise.
And Aliona shouldn't? Len may be outdated but Aliona's blatant disrespect should not be tolerated! I'm hoping she makes a public apology on ITT instead! Len had every right to be peeved. The judges are there, nicely or not, to do a job- and Aliona behaving like she knows best would be enough to rile all 4 of them!

I doubt good old Saint Arlene of Phillips (I promise that isn't sarcasm- I still mourn her loss to this day...) would have approved of her comments! And quite right too!
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:43
Jurre
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Len was deeply unprofessional tonight. When Craig criticises, he criticises the dancing, not the dancer. Aliona made a general comment about the judges, he made a personal comment. I think he should be made to apologise.

He's an arrogant old man, whose marking is often (as someone else said) affected by Craig's marks. His comments to Harry were ridiculous. He plays the kindly old man to some people "Yes, there are some things that could be approved, but overall I think you did a good job". He constantly plays to the audience, and I think it's time for him to move on, as well as Mr. Forsythe. And some of his comments to the women border on the perverted (both of them).
That annoys me greatly. You saw how seriously annoyed he was tonight when the crowd booed him, saying he was giving serious advice.

But when Craig gets booed giving advice, Len needs to add to the negative by insulting Craig. So Craig's advice is not worth listening to?
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:43
ianswaiting
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How can you explain terrible people like Gavin getting far? Certainly wasn't dancing.

What I am trying to say is that people voted for matt because they thought he was a great dancers. Other people are voted for because of different reasons. But I rarely think choreography or pros come into it.
People will vote for a showstopping performance. Choreography has everything to do with that. Choreographing a routine that plays to the strengths of the celebrity, and that hides their weaknesses, is something that the best pro's (for example, Natalie) excel at and that the weaker pro's (I would put Aliona in this category) don't.

Matt quite possibly should have won last year, especially with the number of mistakes that Kara made in her showdance but his showdance didn't really show off his dancing in any way at all (although it did well to remind us all that he used to be a gymnast).
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:44
Jurre
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And Aliona shouldn't? Len may be outdated but Aliona's blatant disrespect should not be tolerated! I'm hoping she makes a public apology on ITT instead! Len had every right to be peeved. The judges are there, nicely or not, to do a job- and Aliona behaving like she knows best would be enough to rile all 4 of them!

I doubt good old Saint Arlene of Phillips (I promise that isn't sarcasm- I still mourn her loss to this day...) would have approved of her comments! And quite right too!
Arlene woud have said nothing, but would have fawned over Harry's tight pants.
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:45
Damahepa
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I do agree. Craig can be an overload of things to correct, as he wants nothing shy of perfection.
Len does have some points of criticism and understands that couples need to be supported, but it irritates me how he sometimes scorns Craig on what he says.

Alesha's is just there to say: you're great blabla...

Bruno does indeed give good measured advice, but it sometimes drowns in his overly flamboyant metaphors.
I don't mind that flmaboyance though... If this is an entertainment show then provide entertainment, but still do your job.

Bruno certainly does that well, as does Craig in his panto-villain role. It was quite nice seeing Alesha give a 2 for once! Maybe she's starting to turn a corner...

Len just knows what he likes and as the most experienced I don't care to blame him for his more elderly critical eye...
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:46
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I don't think you want to be engaged at all. You don't seem to want to accept that there are vast number of forumites out there that weren't thrilled with Aliona's choreography for her celeb partners. Rav was a red herring. I agreed he was bad and he had a personality of a toilet roll cardboard, but Matt had SO much potential and going by how people kept saying most viewers/voters of SCD were women, Matt could have easily walked it last year.

Matt's flippin' back flippping was UNNECESSARY for the dances he did. What is he, a freakin' seal? Alright first week, he needed to get people's attention with the cha-cha, but what's with that silly binoculars, stupid backpack and wellington boots that Aliona was wearing??? It made Matt look like a leacher stalking Aliona, the lap dancer on a holiday in Lapland. Not the prettiest sight.

And what's with that JUMP Aliona did with Matt's foxtrot as if she wanted him to ravish her on the dancefloor? What was that all about?

Rubbish, chavish choreography that's what!
Applauds!! Couldn't agree more SCD-O- I really wanted to like Matt last year but couldn't because of the 'added extras'- no real dancing for me.

Len was deeply unprofessional tonight. When Craig criticises, he criticises the dancing, not the dancer. Aliona made a general comment about the judges, he made a personal comment. I think he should be made to apologise.
Actually he did not make a 'personal comment' - he made a comment to Aliona which is different.

It will be interesting to see what the other pros say on ITT and whether Harry manages to get her to shut up or to make more considered comments this week on ITT.
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:47
ianswaiting
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I agree with that. Harry wasn't dancing enough to justify high marks. Part of the fact why Harry got such (undeserved) lw marks, was to wake Aliona up.
I thought Harry's marks tonight were very generous actually. It was one of the dullest routines of the whole evening and he didn't actually do a lot.
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:47
Aleksis
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I don't think you want to be engaged at all. You don't seem to want to accept that there are vast number of forumites out there that weren't thrilled with Aliona's choreography for her celeb partners.
I can perfectly accept that people didn't like her choreography. What I don't accept is their extremely shaky "reasons" for dismissing her ability as a choreographer, or for accusing her of ruining Matt's chances, or that if it weren't for her he would easily have won.

Matt's flippin' back flippping was UNNECESSARY for the dances he did. What is he, a freakin' seal? Alright first week, he needed to get people's attention with the cha-cha, but what's with that silly binoculars, stupid backpack and wellington boots that Aliona was wearing??? It made Matt look like a leacher stalking Aliona, the lap dancer on a holiday in Lapland. Not the prettiest sight.
She was making it fun; it made him stand out. I became attached to the couple because of those quirky touches. She was brave enough to make him unique and show off his acrobatic talents - which, in that line-up, were unique to him.
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:48
Damahepa
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Arlene woud have said nothing, but would have fawned over Harry's tight pants.
Arlene- to my memory- is the only other judges to Craig to have given a 1... (Good old Q Wilson's Cha Cha!)
She certainly wouldn't have stood for any of the rubbish Aliona says.
However yes, Craig and Len would have had to keep her on the same tether as Bruno... can't help feeling she's cursing not having messers Savage, Donovan and Judd on the show back in her day... I wonder if Ramps has recovered yet?
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:48
IzzieStar
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How can you explain terrible people like Gavin getting far? Certainly wasn't dancing.

What I am trying to say is that people voted for matt because they thought he was a great dancers. Other people are voted for because of different reasons. But I rarely think choreography or pros come into it.
I'd disagree with that; choreography is important. For instance, in series seven, Ricky Whittle had been in two dance offs and then comes out in the semi-final and performs a stunning Waltz and a dramatic Argentine Tango and doesn't get eliminated.
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:48
TheAuburnEnigma
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People will vote for a showstopping performance. Choreography has everything to do with that. Choreographing a routine that plays to the strengths of the celebrity, and that hides their weaknesses, is something that the best pro's (for example, Natalie) excel at and that the weaker pro's (I would put Aliona in this category) don't.

Matt quite possibly should have won last year, especially with the number of mistakes that Kara made in her showdance but his showdance didn't really show off his dancing in any way at all (although it did well to remind us all that he used to be a gymnast).
I think one part of Kartem's appeal (probably a small part, but a part nonetheless) was the fact that they had a showmance.

I wasn't a fan of either of them (I was initially a Matt supporter, but Pamela had won me over by the end) - but I do think that might have endeared them to some viewers.
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Old 08-10-2011, 23:49
Jurre
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I thought Harry's marks tonight were very generous actually. It was one of the dullest routines of the whole evening and he didn't actually do a lot.
Yes, it was dull, but at least he wasn't dragged across the floor like some of the other celebs.
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