Yeah, those Mcfly 'fans' may be busy getting One Direction tickets in the black market at £300 a pop and will be skint, too skint to vote Harry.

Aliona's arrogance can only test the patience of a saint- and it will soon become clear what's happening with him. Everyone complained last year about Matt's VTs being edited to show the tension between him and Aliona... funny how that didn't happen with James Artem Katja or Natalie... Eventually something's got to give, and I think it might just be Harry's patience; if not Len's or Craig's; if not the producers.

Wading into the fray with my contribution (I may live to regret this!)

I was a BIG Matt fan last year. I supported him (quietly) all the way through the series (I have, over the last few years, since Ramps, taken to not revealing my favourite as I don't want to jinx them! Whether it's worked or not is open to debate! ) I also loved Kara and Artem (so I was kinda in a win win situation).

Therefore, speaking as a fan of Matt (and Aliona), I have to say I agree with those who are saying that Aliona made a grave mistake in what she said (head dropped in hands when the words came out of her mouth on ITT. I KNEW it would come back to bite her and she was a fool for saying it. Also - since when has a bit of advice from someone who might know what they're talking about gone amiss?).

I support Len in what he said tonight. He didn't berate the celebrity. He berated the professional - and yes, he was disapproving in his context but saying he wasn't going to give her advice because she had stated that she didn't listen (which is more or less what she said - of course, everyone has their own different interpretation of her words, but that was mine) and speaking to Harry instead made his point without him having to be as insulting about her as she was about the judges.

As I say, I LOVED Matt and Aliona last year - right from the very start - but I started to despair of some of the choreography when Aliona INSISTED on putting in tricks to show off her partner's gymnastics. We KNEW Matt was good at gymnastics - if we hadn't before we knew it from the first week of the trick. There was absolutely no need to include it after that first time because the man could bloody DANCE as well! Why not showcase the dancing when the show is, after all 'Strictly Come DANCING (the clue's in the name).

Honestly? I wanted to tear my hair out sometimes last year with Aliona - and I LIKE her!!!!

I get the impression that if she doesn't start listening and doing what has been advised, then Harry's bad habits will continue (when they could so easily be ironed out because he's eager to learn and he has the talent) and will ruin his chances. Because the judges (and the public for that matter, many of whom are as critical, if not more so than the judges and many of whom now know what to look for in each dance - footwork, posture, etc etc) will get sick of the same mistakes and Harry will end up leaving way before he should.

Anyway, that's my twopennethworth .... now going back to lurk ...

What I like about Aliona is that she seems really down to earth and easygoing. She doesn't go for all the pomp and circumstance of the show, and has never appeared all that fazed by the 'celebrity' element - unlike certain other pros who fawn over their celebs like they're royalty or something. She also doesn't pander to the judges and honestly speaks her mind without being aggressive or rude. What she said on ITT was perfectly reasonable, she listens to the judges but doesn't let their negative criticism burden her attitude. That perspective isn't something to get snotty about, in my opinion, Len's an idiot.

Famous last words, baby (kroshka), are you Aliona by any chance?

To be honest, I think Aliona has shown that she does listen to the judges. Just compare her choreography last year to this year.

Last year's cha-cha had all that business with the wellies, and the binoculars, and the fake grass, and the eye-blistering outfits. Last year's foxtrot was mostly tango, with that weird triumphant leap on top of Matt at the end.

This year, she's choreographed a cha-cha that was full of cha-cha content, and a foxtrot that while not being so full of content, was at least standard foxtrot fare, and at most would have been lovely had it been performed more. No dodgy outfits, no props.

I think she has clearly learnt from last year. I think regardless of Aliona's choreography, Kara should have won, but for someone to be as good as Matt, with his kind of audience-pleasing persona, to not win... something went wrong. Aliona's been given a second chance with a good partner - scads of potential, built in fanbase, not obviously weak in either Latin or ballroom - so so far she's playing it safe.

Yeah, I hope you are right, and maybe the best is for her to keep her mouth firmly shut and let Harry do the talking.

Yeah, hopefully that is what she will do. After all, she is now damned if she does and damned if she doesn't - if she sticks to her guns, then she is not respecting the judges; if she changes tack it will seem fawning and insincere.

But t problem is that he is not exactly easy going.

If only. I wouldn't mind getting that close to Harry

The main problem with Aliona's choreography was that floor spin - it wasn't necessary and detracted from the dance. It also made it appear that Aliona spent more time teaching Harry the technique behind the floor spin than his hold and headline, both of which were not great though I wouldn't say they were much worse than Jason's.

I'm think Aliona to show some remorse after her comment on It Takes Two and, if she refuses to change, for Harry to become more forceful and ask for traditional choreography above an original approach. I agree with those who say that the judges comments drove a wedge between Rav and Aliona a couple of years ago but I think Harry is more laid back and won't take one snide remark too seriously, but he may push himself forward now if he feels something isn't right rather than following instructions to the letter.

Saying that, I felt the judging overall was inconsistent last night and maybe the four of them should look at their job first and foremost before criticising the professionals over theirs.

Like many have said, lovely Matt would have walked it with any other female pro in my opinion. Aliona has her own strange agenda, it almost seems like she's not all there to me sometimes. Not taking anything away from the fact she's a talented dancer though. Just loathe her choreo and teaching.

x x x x x

Great post and I especially agree with the bit in bold. Tonight the judges' scores were all over the place and it was possibly their worst performance of consistency in years.

Len doesn't like Aliona in the same way he didn't like Kelly Brook. He doesn't like young women who in his opinion don't know their place. I will never forget the way he shouted at Kelly for her supposed lack of commitment whilst she was visiting her dieing father in hospital.

I'll just speculate for a moment.

Lets just imagine that the order of popularity with the public before the semi-final stage last year had generally from least popular to most popular been -

Pamela
Scott
Gavin
Kara
Matt

If the producers want Pamela in the final instead of Gavin, how do they do that?

One way is to put Pamela at the top and push Matt down to level 3rd with Scott on the judges scores.
Of course that would involve the judges having a predetermined order.

If Matt didn't realise that and took their scores and backing remarks to heart, he could be a bit shaken by that and Aliona would have to build his confidence back up.

Just speculation of course - things like that dont happen in the real world.

Len has completely lost perspective on his own self importance, if he's miffed with Aliona it doesn't have to be personal.... you could prick his inflated self-importance with a felt tip pen nowadays.

Exactly. She is free to disregard the judges as much as she likes and, in private, she can roll her eyes at the waywardness of a lot of what they come out with like we all do. But I thought it was crazy for her to voice it. Harry got it immediately - look how quick he was to compensate by pointing out that he *does* listen to them.


I would love love love an IT2 where someone sat down with Len and walked him through this scoring from any one show, let alone trying to figure out how there is consistency across a series. Just to see how he would attempt to justify any of it.

I should think most of McFly's fans are older than One Direction. McFly were introduced 9 years back now! But this is the big thing about McFly - they're no longer as big here as they used to be but still had a hit last year with 'Shine a Light'. They've now got big fanbases in different countries - especially across South America. Those fans wont be able to help!

The only occasion that we know Matt finished second to Kara last year was in the final.
I think Kara was the best dancer ever on SCD and Artem did a great job as coach and choreographer, so I think they deserved to win.

I think Aliona's choreography changed last year (No props with Rav) because the producers said that was the way they wanted the choreography to go.

Harry is a novice at dancing, but has potential. He's not going to become a very good dancer overnight. Its going to take time.

I remember Lilia correcting Craig over a comment about arms in the Salsa. If the pros kept correcting the judges, the show would be much longer. They are supposed to just stand there and take it.

It makes sense to me for a complete novice not to be deflected by comments from the judges who only see them for a few minutes and go with what the pro says.

Some like Aliona's choreography (me) others dont. She choreographs for the audience, not the judges. The tour results showed how popular 2 of her dances were compared to 2 of Artem's, and Artem's are agreed to be of very high quality.

In the first line of the previous post, I meant in the public vote.

Editing function doesn't seem to work for me.

Aliona is Marmite. You either love her or hate her. Me? I think Marmite is 'orrible... I'm just annoyed because I'd quite like Harry to win, but and there is just something about Aliona that I don't take to. Is it too late to swap partners around?? I think he'd do really well with Flavia...

I think you're right about her being marmite. I remember last year how there was quite a strong dislike of her voiced by some on this forum, whilst others were completely supportive of her, whatever she did.

She made me a bit cross by not really putting much foxtrot into their foxtrot! He can plainly dance, and she should choreograph for his ability and concentrate on correcting faults instead of all the silly faffing around that featured in their routine last night.

With one or two exceptions, the celebrities didn't choreograph much dancing in hold into their routines. This is understandable because the foxtrot is one of the most difficult ballroom dances and this is only week 2.

I can scarcely believe I'm defending Len on here after some of the nonsense he's come out with in the past - but his comments were the results of Aliona's stupidity, not of his own self-importance. She criticised all the judges, not just Len, and although only Len referred specifically to her remarks on ITT, it was obvious all the others' critique was coloured by that.

So if you don't like it, blame Aliona - her big mouth started it ...

Yes, the judges' scores were all over the place - you can see certain celebs being manoeuvred into position as favourites () - but Aliona has managed to create a unique situation by not being able to keep her trap shut. Yes, other pro's have complained to the judges, but that's usually been Craig and all part of the panto; none of them have ever wholesale dismissed the judges as irrelevant.

And where has this notion of Aliona choreographing for the audience, not the judges, come from? Clearly she can't be that good if that's the case, as otherwise Matt would have won last year ... (and that is the only instance that actually mattered - what happened on the tour is hardly relevant, nor a vote of confidence in her choreography ... just Matt's fans out en masse).

I'm not really a fan of Len Goodman - he irritates me immensely - but to be fair to him, I don't think he was aware of Kelly's circumstances. If I remember rightly, Brendan knew and the producers knew but that was it. It was her request that it not become common knowledge, even behind-the-scenes. If I am remembering correctly, then Len's comments to Kelly were actually justified based on the knowledge he had at the time and it's only in retrospect that his comments were unfair.



As for Aliona, some gimmicks are ok to make an impression, especially at the beginning, but she overdid it last year. By the final, the showdance was just a bit meh because it was all about the gymnastics we'd seen throughout the series and there was no wow factor. If she'd used the gimmicks only in week 1 to make an impression at the start and the Charleston where they were appropriate then the showdance would have made much more of an impact. (The backflip off the desk, for example, should have been left for the showdance as there was nothing in the showdance that was nearly as memorable as that.) She got the balance wrong last year but it looks like she's learned from that, as this year her choreography so far is much more about dancing than about gimmicks, even if perhaps it still isn't quite right yet.