Personally I dont know why they brought in Darcy...I think she is a fantastic dancer but she had not 'history' with Strictly or Ballroom dancing so it was an odd choice....Jennifer has at least the same 'credentials' as Alesha so she isnt just an odd choice.

I loved Darcy's dance with Ian....

Being charming witty and funny did not make her comments about the dance any more incisive though. To me, her comments were on par with those from Alesha.


I said ballroom/latin dancer, there are a few ex-SCD ones who might fit the bill.

Any if you wan t to look at it another way, losing Len for one week, you replace like for like.

No thank you!!

I did mean ex-SCD professionals, not celebs (we have had one of those, never again please).

Does that change things for you?

Fair enough. For some reason I was thinking "Charles Gray"


Because I'm a dancer, and because the dancing is basically about 5% of the film? Christ, the film spends more time on the pro dancers abortion; in fact, that's the key plot point, so it's probably more accurate to call it a film about abortion.

But basically, it's a typical 1980s coming-of-age film - like Stand By Me, Pretty in Pink, The Breakfast Club, and Some Kind Of Wonderful. All great films, of course.

But Dirty Dancing is not a dance film, any more than Stand By Me is a railway film.


See above.

But I'm plumping for abortion.


Oh rubbish. Just ... rubbish. Point me to a single routine which looks like a single routine in the film.

Based on, you know, the actual dance movements.


Well, she won DWTS. Which is nice. It doesn't make her a good dancer, unless she's continued her training in the meantime?

(And no, of course she hasn't, they almost never do)


Because there are dozens or hundreds of people, in this country, who are obviously far more qualified for the job?

Either Ian or Karen would plainly be fantastic.

In fact, I suspect that they'd be too good in the role; I suspect that the reason Jennifer Grey was asked was because she's available (no doubt promoting a project) and because she's guaranteed temporary.

Ah, but that would be using that strange "Logic" stuff.

Ooops, sorry about that

I'll ignore the first point as I'm fairly sure you're winding me up. But to address the second, I sympathise - my mum's a maths teacher and I suck at maths. The difference is I don't get up and teach maths in public and claim my mum makes me good at it. Jennifer Grey has pretty much proved she can dance.


I'd rather have the winner than have a competitor who was dreadful but whose media profile is good - I bet the producers considered Pamela Anderson and the frankly harridan-worthy Mel B as well. At least this way you know you're getting the judge because of their dance talent and not because of their column inches.


I am willing to bet I've seen the film many, many times more than your good self. Which allows me to confirm that Jennifer Grey gets a lot more screen time than Patrick Swayze, and that the film is built entirely around her character.


Cheers.


She's a minor talent in her original field who lucked into one high-profile dancing opportunity, made a success of it and has been coasting on that success ever since.

Whereas Alesha is a minor talent in her original field who lucked into one high-profile dancing opportunity, and....oh, hang on.

I don't sit there and think 'oh yeah, Billy Connolly's a better comic than Jack Whitehall because he came from nothing and Jack went to public school'. You judge them on whether they make you laugh or not. Anyone who judges talent comparatively against a person's background is either a raging snob or a raging reverse snob.

So yes, it's an insult to compare the two - especially on the grounds you've decided to use.

These are the routines that I remember but I know there have been more just dont have the time to research them.

Series 5 Dirty Dancing group routine including the 'iconic' lift done by Kenny & Ola

Chris & Ola showdance

Pamela & James showdance

No none of them were exact copies of routines in the film and that would have been wrong anyway but they were 'homage' to the film which you implied was old hat because it was 25 years old, for me it makes no difference how long ago something was....would you turn down Fred Astaire as a judge (if he was still about ofcourse) because he hadnt been in a film for 50 years


So Alesha shouldnt be there either....but she is.

Personally I think as its just one week they should have given the job to Ian Waite but they didnt so I am happy to see Jennifer doing it.

And that's an important point to remember - none of the SCD pros were ever going to get the job, and nor was anyone with a real ballroom background/affiliation, in case they turned out to be better than Len (cos, you know, that'd be hard ).

Under the probable scoring system used by producers to evaluate potential candidates for the one-week slot, I'd say we were lucky to get Jennifer Gray and not Helio Castroneves or Shawn Johnson.

Uh-oh - better watch her sitting down on that chair in case she sustains another injury... Even DWTS make a joke of it - a 'behind the scenes' feature in the current series showed a box marked 'Jennifer Grey's First Aid Kit' on the kitchen worktop!

Wonder if we'll get Jamie Lee Curtis in the audience too, weeping and looking proud, as she was every week JG was in DWTS.

Henry Winkler and Jamie Lee Curtis in the same series? Nah, that would be far too much to hope for

No, you're getting the judge because the producers think it'll make good telly. That's the only reason any decisions are ever made to change the Strictly format.

It's naive in the extreme to think otherwise.

And this one will be milked (expect to hear "Wow, that was real dirty dancing, I should know", "No-one puts Audley in the corner", "it's the time of my life" and similar naff phrases ad nauseam)


Fair enough. I'm willing to bet I've done a damnsight more dancing than your good self.

If you call it a dance film, I'm going to disagree. Neither is "Footloose" a dance film, for that matter.

"Shall we dance" (both versions) is a dance film. Striclty Ballroom, obviously, is a dance film. The Tango lesson is a dance film.

Dirty Dancing is not a dance film. It's a cheesy-but-fun coming-of-age film.

You might as well call the Rocky Horror Picture Show a dance film. In fact, Rocky Horrow is more a dance film than dirty dancing.


Strange how most people can't remember who she is then... One might almost suspect that's because Swayze has charisma, and she... had a famous dad.

Thing is, I'm not defending Alesha - but we already have a token "female celeb dance comp winner" judge, why on earth do we want two of the beggars?

No, I didn't say that. Reread the post.


Yes, because Jennifer Grey and Fred Astaire are completely comparable.


Well yes. So why have two?

Why have anyone? Why not simply have three judges?

Just watched the link, can't believe that was only week 4 in the competition. That was fantastic! Something you'd expect to see in the semi's or final itself.

Actually, I thought that would've been the primary initial criterion for whoever was chosen i.e. it's so obvious I didn't mention it. I was just breaking it down a bit more to demonstrate that it is possible to get a telly-worthy judge with talent, rather than simply booking Katie Price or whoever would shill their skinny arse off to promote the appearance most widely.


No contest on the bet, though I think it's an offensive assumption to make unless you recall me mentioning in the past that I don't dance

I made the point only the other day that Footloose isn't about dancing, so in one sense I agree with you. The reason people still watch Dirty Dancing, Footloose, Strictly Ballroom is absolutely because they're strongly plotted, watchable films in their own right, rather than 'dance films'. Is this not why Shall We Dance, Street Dance 3D, Save the Last Dance etc. are not in the same league?

Where I would differ is to say that what people tend to remember from these films is the dancing, not the angsty parts where John Lithgow is in the church with Lori Singer, or where Paul Mercurio snogs Tara Morice (yes, I have also seen these films far too many times).


The reason most people can't remember is because most people who saw DD were women, and we all remember Patrick Swayze in the black shirt with his pecs out before we remember the name of the bird he danced with

More seriously, Swayze was a far better established star when he made DD and was always going to get the lion's share of the attention. I don't think that demotes Jennifer Grey to being a 'minor character' in the context of the film though.

And just as you're not defending Alesha, I'm not going to pretend Jennifer Grey would have been at the top of my list either. I'm simply saying that given the pool they could realistically pick from, there were far, far worse choices who could have made it into that seat - and I repeat, at least it's someone with some semblance of a dance background that extends beyond Alesha's.

Robbie Savage has tweeted that they are using a Dirty Dancing song this weekend.....need I say more.

I just wonder how many of the 9 million+ viewers will know who Jennifer Gray is anyway?

Am intrigued now - which song from that's got a jive tempo?!

Blimey, you started it, flaunting your qualifications at me...


Well, yes.

But you're the one who's been insisting that DD is a dance film. Now you're agreeing with me that it's not?


Well, I'd suggest that it's mainly because they're rubbish (OK, Shall We Dance was good, but the original was better).

But yes, there's a lowest-common-denominator also.


No, it's because Swayze had talent and charisma. And could, you know, dance.

I barely remember Jennifer Grey.


I don't agree - and I also note that you're moving the goalposts here massively, you started off by effectively calling her the best thing since sliced bread, now it's a "well, could be worse"

Which, actually, is my position. It could be worse. But only just. And it could be much much better.

specially as she no longer looks much like the innocent young thing she was when she did Dirty Dancing.....

(agree).

I think there's a grey area over DD, as it's basically about how she 'finds herself' through the medium of dance, whereas the actual dance sequences are more incidental to stuff like Footloose. There's an argument either way, so you can be right if you want to, oh King of Curmudgeons


I checked in case I'd done that. My original post was:


I don't think that post makes JG out to be the best thing since anything. Or even as good as Arlene. Who wasn't, IMHO, the great telly she thought she was. And, I repeat, this judgement is in the context not of all potential candidates, but of those candidates who a) might have been asked and b) might have said yes.

If she were covering for Alesha it would make sense, but for Len it seems a bizarre choice.