I think they need to just accept it now and not do anything stupid. It's much better to ride it out for the rest of the series, accepting these declines and making changes next year rather than doing stupid twists for a short term ratings fix but could end up having a damaging effect in the long term.

I was about to say is a show's success dependent on one character, of course we all know 2009 says Yes for both The X Factor and Britain's Got Talent.

Strictly had Ann last year as well; and I think Russell is pretty key to the show this year until it's established itself, if that makes sense. I don't think The X Factor has that figure this year; the love-to-hate figure is too good to lose, the hate-to-hate figure is getting unbearable and the joke entrant is better than half of the serious acts.

The trouble is there really are limits to the sort of last minute twists they can do in these shows. In theory they could (and should) have a double eviction at some point rather than have 4 in the final again - but that's not going to hook viewers in. Perhaps having a big name mentor one week and a theme week based around them could give it a slight boost - but it all comes down to viewers not caring about the contestants to even care how they handle it.


Unsurprisingly the press are pushing the Cheryl Cole agenda at every opportunity (the latest rubbish being Simon is letting Louis Walsh decide the new panel and he'll dump Tulisa for Cheryl) - but all viewers polls suggested most people were happy to see the back of Cheryl. As we've all said it comes down to talent - and as well as the below par group this year I wonder if the relative lack of success of most previous winners means people just aren't buying into it anymore.

You don't think they've already pushed the panic button? Have you been following some of the stuff they've been doing over the past two weeks?

I agree - they just need to look how Big Brother 7 and the subsequent celebrity series damaged the franchise almost beyond repair thanks to the twists and changes to the format.

Saying that, I'm not sure whether adding an additional celebrity guest judge (as long as it's a star name) every week would be disastrous for the show. Especially if they end up making the decision instead of the mentors.

This is standard X Factor rubbish that they produce every year. By panic button I mean suddenly switching the panel around; having a 'bring back' week where those eliminated at judges houses/week 1 get a second chance to enter the competition or a replacement week where those eliminated are replaced by earlier entrants; switching the acts mentors around to create controversy (imagine if Tulisa or Louis ended up mentoring Misha); sacking the producer an making it public etc. Something massive that hugely effects the dynamics of the show.

I don't really know what a guest judge would add to the show at this point. It would just feel as if they're auditioning potential replacement judges for next year (which ultimately they probably would be) and I don't think that would help hook viewers in.

Ultimately what they really need next week is for at least one of the contestants to break away from the pack with a standout performance that grabs people's attention for the right reasons. That means not the production values and the backing dancers but the actual musical content. They need to get people talking about someone on this show in a positive and excited light.

At least next year's series will have a nice low benchmark to compare it with. I imagine some will tend to insist that comparisons are made with 2010 though!

It's also funny how there are no complaints that this thread is being taken over by X Factor talk this year, unlike previous years, I wonder why!

I hadn't noticed that before, but the situation seems spookily similar. It does seem to have collapsed somewhat - it won't have gone from 11.1m averages for the last 3 Saturday audition shows to a 9.9m average for the fourth live show for no good reason. The fact that the live shows have been down consistently week on week should really be worrying them too. I'm not sure what they can do now. There isn't much point in doing anything for next week as the numbers will be dreadful anyway due to Bonfire night (sub-9m?). If they can get Cowell in for 12th November then great but it seems unlikely, and Elaine Bedell didn't think it was going to happen. I don't think they should look into doing this again next year, but a different guest judge each week might get a bit of hype at least for the remaining few weeks if they can get some big names. I really liked Kelly at the auditions but she hasn't worked at all on the live shows so I wonder if her departure might be permanent. Cowell will probably appear at the final, and it being at Wembley might help things a bit, but other than that and better guests for the Sunday shows I can't think of anything else they can do for this series, and frankly I think they'll be glad when it's over.


The final auditions show was really poor for some reason, and I do think that ending with Ceri left a bad taste that may have started this year's decline. I don't think they need to change the auditions though, they're the one part of this series that worked. Splitting bootcamp could work and I agree about the guest judges, but the problem is would they get big names to commit to it? Judges houses is OK as it is but they need better guests next year and need to get rid of Sinitta. I do like the idea of battles like on The Voice though.

As for the live shows, the twist has ended up being a disaster and left another bad taste in people's mouths. It definitely shouldn't be repeated and they should just start with 12 in the live shows. This year's contestants are OK but they aren't interesting enough, so they need to do better there next year.

The panel will definitely change. I'm certain that Kelly won't be back next year and Louis definitely will. As for Tulisa and Gary, I suspect they'll keep one of them just to save face, but they won't keep both. I guess which one they keep depends on who else they can get. Cowell won't come back but they could do with someone a bit more fun than Gary. I remember Michael Buble's name was mentioned when the judges were unknown earlier in the year. He's another 'friend of the show' and a 'friend of ITV' too so he might do it. Obviously they'd want to get Cheryl back but whether she'd do it or not is another matter. Nicole went down well over here last year so they could swap her to the UK version, and Alexandra wasn't bad last night so they could consider her. They've got a few options at least.

I think it's more than talent that's the issue - as has already been said 2009 was worse than this talent wise and I don't think 2010 was brilliant either.

Though there does need to be a 'water cooler' moment of some sort of a good kind.

They just axed a member of a group and brought in a replacement from a previously eliminated group. A move made even more ridiculous by the fact the group itself was thrown together at the last minute during the judges houses stage. Then on top of that they let Kelly go MIA for a week after pushing the 'feud' between her and Tulisa and dropped a random replacement into the mix. I'm half expecting to tune in next week and see that Olly Murs has replaced Gary Barlow for no particular reason.

Saying that, I fully expect the 2012 audition shows to be down on 2011 unless they manage to get a massive name on the panel.

I honestly think both of those were not twists instigated by the producers but natural changes - Ashley wanted to quit, and I think Kelly really is ill though they've taken advantage of her absence. I think they are planning to change the panel next year so it makes sense to audition judges while the show is flailing.

People will be interested to see the new panel, this year's tabloid ratings stories will be forgotten, plus there is the excitement of 'decent telly' starting again after a summer of nodoubt dross that always boosts the likes of TXF.

The Olympics and Euro 2012 are about next year.

I know the performance shows are down, but how are the results shows doing? I thought it got around 11m last week?

I would agree that as a whole group this years contestants are probably superior to what we've seen over the past two years but what this series lacks (which '09 and '10 didn't) is one or two stand out acts that are really driving the show forward. If you look back at last year you had Matt Cardle, Cher Lloyd and One Direction. Maybe not the most talented acts in the world but the audience was massively excited about them and they drove the show forward as a result. '09 had Joe, Olly and Jedward driving the show forward and getting people talking. This year they're lacking acts that really stand out from the pack which is odd because on paper people should probably be more excited about Misha and Kitty but for whatever reason they just aren't.

Like I said I think next week the best thing that can happen is that someone, anyone will just hit it out of the park and have a genuine big 'I've arrived' moment that won't feel like it was manufactured by the staging and production.

I don't share your faith or trust in the production team on this front I'm afraid. I'm far too cynical for that.


That really depends on who the panel is. People have been burnt by the excitement of a new panel this year and I'm not convinced they'll dive in quite so readily this year. And whilst this keeps coming up I honestly think the wildcard in all of this is going to be how The Voice does at the start of the year for BBC1. If that does well and people like that panel then its going to make the job of The X Factor producers even tougher.

Or maybe someone in the sing off tonight - Ruth Lorenzo's Purple Rain gave 2008 a massive lift in terms of being a 'water cooler' moment.

The problem is, the acts that should be driving it forward are not working - Kitty is love to hate but is so good people can't hate her because she's one of the only entertaining one's there. Johnny is a joke act but is too strong a performer to be labelled that. Misha never really connected with the audience, even before the bullying accusation.

TBH their biggest mistake for me was getting rid of Amelia. Her performance of E.T. proved that she was capable of a lot.

I think they might just be looking forward to getting to the end of this series They did have a shot at whipping up some controversy last week. But this week was pretty tame. We've long since established that nobody cares about Kelly Rowland whether she's there or not. And I'd be amazed if even 10% of the audience could have told you before last night who Ashford and Ashley were (I'm still not sure which one left and which one joined).

I think its time ITV/Syco stopped presenting the show as being "in crisis" now its in a real crisis, it needs to show strength.

I still don't think 9.9m is a crisis. It's recoverable though I agree they shouldn't be building it up as one.

Actually that's not the worst idea in the world when you think of the things they could do.


Other than replacing Louis I don't think making any panel changes just for the sake of it is worth the risk - they need a bit of consistency and next year Kelly, Tulisa and Gary will bring a bit of history. Is Gary love/hate a north/south divide thing (or female/male) - don't people outside Granadaland get him?

As for the live show opening twist - yes, it shouldn't be repeated but I think the main reason it failed this year was a combination of the lack of strength in depth and it being the debut for three of the judges. I also think the way it was structured didn't help - perhaps having the judges ditch an act each but then have one of the rejects voted back in by the public - to be mentored by the judge who axed them - would have worked better.


I agree though with the concensus here - just get through the rest of this series and then concentrate on what is needed next year to win back the viewers.

Agreed on all counts.

Watching the recap of last nights show I think their best hope might be with Marcus this year. He seems to be the only standout act they have who is in anyway likeable.