Oh and how can people complain about including +1 whilst claiming timeshifts don't really count cause they don't get advertising from it??

My only problem with +1 is people refuse to include the EE repeat with its figures when comparing to other soaps.

+1 are viewers all the same. Not including them is ridiculous. Especially when we all know full well a lot of 'overnights' are not live but recorded.

Re your point about EE repeats: Are the numerous repeats of Corrie and Emmerdale across various ITV channels included in the final official figures then ?

Merlin is delivering excellent audiences against TXF. I feel TXF is slowly running out of steam and for the first time in ages, I found myself not being bothered to watch the show, due to some appalling song choices. I will assume the BBC will be the happier of the two, SCD doing well and Csaualty doing very well from Merlin's lead-in. As regards to National Lottery, a 15-minute draw show on Saturdays should suffice, so no more tired gameshow lottery formats.

The adverts are really hurting the XFactor's ratings. There were 7x 4 minute ad breaks. The show had almost half an hour worth of ad breaks.

ITV need to cut down the adverts. 1/2 an hours worth of yogurt adverts.

It's ridiculous.

And X Factor need better theme weeks. US vs UK oh pooey, I was betting on Kitty to come out and sing an Armenian dance anthem. Heartbreak vs Love or whatever it was was far too vague a theme. I can usually guess what they're going to sing but these themes are horrendous. Last night was very, very, very dull and all the performances until The Risk were below par or the wrong song choice.

On the other hand, Strictly is very good this year I don't blame more people watching it. Although I think Harry from McFly comes with his own fanbase - the same lot that watch X Factor. Sneaky SCD.

It'd have to just be for the shows which pull a large 16-34 audience rather than every single one otherwise, as you say, advertisers won't accept it. But maybe if they stuck to The X Factor, Britain's Got Talent, I'm A Celebrity, Dancing on Ice, possibly Take Me Out and the football and they might get away with it.

What was the Peek for X Factor last night?

I told you. The X Factor always adds a load of viewers with timeshift. The quality of the show is another matter.

I think Strictly really has been looking great this series, there aren't many times when a show coming from BBC TV Centre looks better than a show coming from Fountain Studios.

A TV critic said to me that The X Factor looked complacent in comparison.

It appears that though TXF is getting excellent viewing figures relative to other ITV shows, it hasn't generated the same hype as last year (understandably so), and I'm getting the impression that it is no longer that massive ratings juggernaut that it was last year, based on overnights. Ratings may hold up very well relative to last year, but the quality was quite bad and a bit boring for Saturday's show. It will be very interesting to see if I'm a Celebrity is down on last year.

Tuesday nights - simply atrocious that a mainstream channel like ITV can be getting just 2 million on Tuesday night. High Stakes has already tanked quite frankly and Jeremy Kyle does not look cut out to be a gameshow host. 71 Degrees North really tanking. What a far cry from the glory days, when Tuesday nights was a mega night for ITV with Peak Practice, Soldier, Soldier etc.

On the other hand, Doc Martin and Downton doing brilliant business for ITV. Excellent stuff and reliable as ever.

Are they on the same day though?
I just mean the later EE repeat at 10 - I don't see any difference between that and +1 when comparing the soaps.

Maybe it's peaked now as the show is seven years old. I don't foresee a crisis, as 10 million is excellent these days, but should ratings start to fall, then its fickle friends in the redtops will either rubbish it or ignore it.

it is very hard to say if we should count BBC 3 EE or not, certainly until ITV1+1 launched it was an easy no, but now its not so easy. What is the difference between a +1 repeat, and a repeat 2 hours later on another channel?

In the end, ITV1+1 allows ITV to count two different airings as one, so why cant the BBC?

The fact that timeshifting, and online viewing means little to advertisers, does not mean such airings shouldn't be counted, Product Placement may not have taken off here yet, but that total rating is still important for that.

True, but I think ITV really need to think of some new and original formats for shows, whether it be a new drama or whatever. Because the reality shows on ITV are getting on just a bit - TXF has already peaked and has been on for 7 years; I'm a Celebrity has been on since 2002, Dancing on Ice is looking a bit tired if I'm frank, and BGT was decent if unspectacular this year.

Red or Black this year was a very flawed concept and slipping below 4 million is not a good sign for a recommission.

Yes it even beat Casualty in share by 0.4% Totally different timeslot and competition of course. Does anyone know how YBF did? - this was Masterchef's main opponent.

We’ll have to disagree on that. I truly hate the +1 figure and the way in which it is combined with the standard channel figure. I can absolutely understand the logic behind it and I know the standard figure includes timeshifters who didn’t watch live but I cannot be on board this idea of reporting the figures from a different channel as part of the ITV figures. And specifically in the case I mentioned with Sam I think it was very much spin.


I disagree.

I don’t think removing +1 from the equation would have dented Strictly or Merlin (at least not by any significant or particularly noticeable margin). I will however admit that it’s entirely possible that removing +1 would have produced an increase in the ITV1 figure with more viewers being forced to timeshift or simply tune in late.


It’s interesting that you should say that because I actually think they should consider using that ad structure for their shows. Of course by that I mean taking the entire structure so you have an ad break, the epilogue of a show and then you cut directly to the following show for 5-10 minutes and then have another ad break. I can’t help but feel that that would improve the strength of their schedule as a whole. It’s hard for example to imagine Jonathan Ross losing quite so many viewers from The X Factor out of the gate if you remove the ad break between the two shows. That ad break just encourages audiences to switch over.

Out of interest is that how they’re structuring things with Downton Abbey? Is it final ad break, epilogue and then cut directly to That Sunday Night Show? Or is there another ad break?


I hadn't really considered that ITV is really the only mass commercial broadcaster in the UK. That does give them some strength to dictate ad rates during their bigger shows at least.

The problem with trying to create more revenue streams is that its easier said than done (although I continue to be amazed about the lack of product placement during The X Factor).

That's a 94% hold from last week for X Factor which is exactly the same as last year, slightly lower than 2009 (96%) and higher than 2008 (89%).

It seems fairly obvious that ITV should be putting it on consistently at 8pm. I don't think there's any need to move beyond that (Strictly doesn't really need to run past 8pm). But airing at 7.30pm is definitely knocking the numbers a bit for no apparent reason.

In terms of themes, I don't think anyone cares. They'd be as well getting rid of them altogether. But I think maybe tone down the updated productions and do a few older, better known songs.

Talent wise, it's pretty poor although no worse than 2009 and that series still did well. I think getting rid of Amelia (and possibly 2 Shoes although maybe they had to) was a woeful decision. Sophie and Nu Vibe are criminally dull and serve no purpose whatsoever. Kitty might not have the same impact as Katie because she's actually good compared to most of them. She certainly deserves to last a good few more weeks anyway.

The panel isn't working as well live as it did in the auditions either. Nicole Scherzinger should have been in place of Kelly. The US hate her but the UK seemed to love her last year.

It makes me laugh that now X Factor is getting lower ratings then Last year it's going the same way as Big Brother. Why can't it do a Strictly and keep getting 8-9m for a few years. ITV would still keep it.

he has a point, and ive tried to reflect this in my postings (not always been successful I admit) even if X-Factor was down to say 9 million, its still successful, and ITV would keep it around.

I am trying to point to the small chink in X-Factor, not the massive crack, however I do think that if publicity about X-Factor is over whelming negative, and that its best days are behind it, some of its viewers will take that as a sign to move on, creating a negative spiral effect.

I didn't say timeshift doesn't count just that ITV probably aren't overjoyed about having a show that timeshifts incredibly well. Particularly if a revenue stream for that show is a phone vote that people can't take part in if they watch the show after Sunday evening.

I also have no problem with the +1 figure just with combining it with the main channel figure. Its just a pet hate of mine.


Disagree with that. And I think its incredibly unlikely to happen now they're tapping into downloads as a revenue stream.


Kelly's the only member of the panel that I think works mainly because she's the only one with any kind of personality or charisma. Why on earth they've made Gary Barlow, who has the charisma of a tree, the 'head judge' I have no idea. In fact why they thought putting him on the show at all was a good idea I have no idea. And Tulisa clearly hasn't worked out as they wanted her to.

It might very well do. The problem is its not fun to talk about that happening.

I think (assuming ITV and SyCo don't panic and do something stupid with the format to try and spike the ratings) The X Factor is in absolutely no danger of total collapse anytime soon. It will I suspect go the way of American Idol. Still post huge numbers every year but see a small but consistent year-on-year decline that people will obsess over being signs the show is about to be pulled from the air. It won't however be in any real or significant danger until ITV find a new format to replace it with (which is no easy task) because unlike Channel 4 I can't see ITV cancelling their reality staple without already having something lined up to replace it.

[quote=allthingsuk;53638212]True, but I think ITV really need to think of some new and original formats for shows, whether it be a new drama or whatever. Because the reality shows on ITV are getting on just a bit - TXF has already peaked and has been on for 7 years; I'm a Celebrity has been on since 2002, Dancing on Ice is looking a bit tired if I'm frank, and BGT was decent if unspectacular this year.

Red or Black this year was a very flawed concept and slipping below 4 million is not a good sign for a recommission.[/QUOTE
ITV1 will eventually need replacements for these shows. Should I'm A Celeb falter this year in the ratings, then it should go as it has had a long run.
Also might it be that people are starting to get bored with reality shows in the same way that 10 years ago DIY and pets and vets shows fell out of favour. ITV1's only reality hits, and I classs the Cowell shows more as talent contests, at the moment are I'm A Celeb and Dancing On Ice and others like 71 Degrees North and Marco's Kitchen Burnout have stiffed in the ratings. Also, what on earth is a repeat of Ladette to Lady doing on Wednesday nights, as surely interest in this would be about nil now?

I Agree. People go on about how vital all this Publicity is to X Factor but does Strictly get all of that no yet it's having one of it's highest rating series.

That philosophy would certainly help Neighbours daily figures, maybe we ought start quoting CS and Emmerdale figures inc +1 and EE with +2.5/3.0 included - but only for those 3 shows.

The main reason people do not like +1 is because it inflates channel share - if TXF scores 40% on ITV1, and 3% on +1, and SCD scored 41% share on BBC1, many would think TXF is more popular, when in fact in only appears to be. The weekly BARB ratings are what count, of course they are not flawless either.

I think many of us would like to see ratings for live viewing, how many people on average sat down for the full run of the show from opening credits to final credits inclusive.

Strictly seems a more dignified show and doesn't have this inttense relationship with the tabloids that TXF has. As has been pointed out, TXF isn't in a serious decline yet, but I reckon it has peaked now. I reckon it should run for a few years yet, but should it lose its ratings crown Cowell will want to cancel it.

It's funny, you keep saying this stuff constantly, yet keep giving Big Brother the benefit of the doubt. I see an inconsistancy with your opinions.

Does anyone have a breakdown of the Wales France games in Wales using BARB figures. This excludes the people watching it in bars etc.

Back on Topic, to the X Factor debate , it is still getting very good ratings, but IMO it has lost the must watch tag it had a few years ago.