Thanks. Seeing that it is now airing a bit later inthe evening. I guess it can be said it's not doing quite as well as last year (at least as far as the overnights are concerned).

I'm not too sure about that. According to the list above the only episode down on last year is the one which aired on October 1st, the hottest October day in England for 26 years, which disrupted the usual viewing pattern.

I understand the argument; I just don't think they're being balanced enough with everything. There are cheaper formats that would've still bought in good ratings - as I said, like the musical format. I don't think the BBC should be there to simply supplement the entertainment format but I think it should at least bear in mind what services commercial television provides to make sure it doesn't rip off genres completely (eg. Strictly works brilliantly because it was something different and opened the world of ballroom dancing to everyone).


I'd say maybe the budget should be reallocated, with less on light entertainment - I'm just not sure if spending on The Voice is needed and if they had that cash going spare...


I think the BBC needs to take advantage of the public's preference in watching their channels for documentaries and non-fictional programming more than they are TBH. I don't think the terrestrial BBC channels are as educational as they once were; no doubt because of the existence of BBC Four. I'll get bogged down in the argument with that one; I think they would be better to scrap BBC Four and move the programming to at least BBC Two.



EastEnders was ratings chasing of the major kind when it was first commissioned, and if it happened nowadays (with the same broadcasting situation as was around then eg. only three channels - or was it four? ) I think the proverbial would hit the fan about it on forums and the such. My take on it is London isn't served by a soap outside EastEnders and at no point do I think the BBC should stop going for the mainstream audience; just be more sensible with what they do bid for.

Same with Match of the Day, really. It adds variety to the schedule; it's been a staple of the BBC schedule for years outside the ITV adventure in the 2000s. My honest opinion on it is I don't mind which broadcaster carries it as long as it's on terrestrial television. But I don't think Match of the Day is a drain on resources as The Voice will be, relatively speaking.

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I've split this up, because it's not a continuation of answering specific points, but more me trying to clarify what my opinion is: my feeling is BBC One especially is starting to echo the path of ITV1. I just fear it'll go down the same route as ITV1 has in the last decade and obviously I don't want it to, but I don't think splashing out cash on a singing contest is the best way to start 2012.

I was listening to an interview with David Mellor a few weeks ago and the question of what the BBC should be doing came up and he said the question arose when he was in government. Basically he was in favour of the BBC attempting to provide for all tastes and it couldnt just provide for the "toff in Surrey" whilst the licence fee is universal.
I dont see how anything other could be the case really. As far as light entertainment is concerned all the BBC has had as a major hit over the last ten years is SCD. The Lloyd Webber shows have done ok but to me there is a definite case for at least one other big hitter. The fact that the BBC have gone for a foreign format surely says most about its inability to produce a decent show than anything else. And it should be remembered that ITV offered 5 million more, yet the makers preferred the BBC.
At the end of the day the BBC has to be competitive in light entertainment on Saturday nights.

................which would mean the licence fee would become untenable and I dont know where all the regulars stand with the LF(interesting to find out as long as it does not become the broadcast forum) on here but I dont think it would be in any way desirable.

The Cube returning next Sunday at 7pm. Should ensure some reliable 5 million viewer performances instead of the sub 3-million we've been getting with the awful Holding Out for a Hero.

It's all well and good saying they should spend it on cheaper formats - but if those formats aren't there to spend it on (or aren't up to scratch), then it's best to spend money on a proven format rather than risk another Don't Scare the Hare.

And I say this every year but the BBC need to allocate their budget more wisely on Saturday nights across the year as virtually every year you see autumn generally packed tight from 5.30pm to 10.15pm on Saturday nights - and then the rest of the year it's pretty sparse at times. There is no justification really for them filming a series of Total Wipeout back in January that doesn't look like it's going to get in the schedules this year - and could be delayed further next year due to the commissioning of Winter Wipeout (unless that itself is delayed to 2013).

I think Endemol feared that ITV1 would just use it to create some problems for Syco and The Voice would play second fiddle to The X Factor.

I think the BBC has been competitive on Saturday nights without the large LE shows TBF.


You have a point, but The Voice could go the same way as So You Think You Can Dance? so the risk is still there.

True. But it was only getting 3.5m veiwers in it's last run. But it should be better then holding out for a hero and X Factor should do better as a result

There's been a claim on The X Factor forum that Strictly's audience is younger in average than The X Factor's. Is this true?

No, here's the demographics from last week's episodes for example: http://i55.tinypic.com/sp7vkg.jpg

The average age of The X Factor's audience is about 39, according to ITV Media. Strictly's would be well into the 50's at the very least, based on those figures.

Thanks, rzt. If you don't mind I'm going to use this on The X Factor just to prove the point.

Yep, that's fine . Here's a few more demos from previous weeks too: http://i53.tinypic.com/2r7m0ye.jpg and http://i55.tinypic.com/11vk3mo.jpg

I think it is worth mentioning that the BBC didn’t buy The Voice in the hopes of getting ‘good’ numbers comparable to the Lloyd-Webber shows. What they want is another Strictly sized hit for the first half of the year and whether or not that’s a realistic goal and The Voice can achieve that remains to be seen. I think it represents the best chance they’ve had in a long time but we’ll see what happens.

Generally though I think the issue though isn’t really with The Voice but what else the BBC does with the Saturday night schedule. If you look at Strictly what’s been brilliant about its success is that its allowed a family drama like Merlin to flourish opposite The X Factor. It’s hard to believe Merlin survives in that slot without a 9 million lead-in from Strictly and I think if The Voice is a success they need to use it in the same way they use Strictly to ultimately anchor and lift the entire Saturday night schedule. In reality it’s almost impossible for the BBC to do anything new with Saturday night at the start of the year because they have no traction there. We’ve even see Doctor Who struggle to maintain a foothold at the start of the year so it’s pretty obvious they need something there. If they’d had a big show pulling 8 million on Saturday nights at the start of the year do we really think Doctor Who’s overnights would have dropped as low as they have? I’m not convinced they would have.

In terms of the BBC limiting their scope to make sure they aren’t overlapping with the commercial broadcasters – they tried that. They tried to be the ‘dance network’ which none of the commercial broadcasters were doing and it didn’t really work out for them. I don’t really think there’s an issue with them buying a singing contest show as long as they don’t try and turn it into The X Factor. As long as the show retains what has made it work elsewhere then I think its fine. If however they pull a Fame Academy where they tried to awkwardly morph the show into Pop Idol then I’d agree the whole thing has been a waste. I think giving a primetime platform to more credible music artists is sufficiently different to The X Factor to make it worthwhile the BBC trying.

(I’d also point out the Lloyd-Webber shows weren’t without issue. They were essentially extended primetime BBC1 ads for the latest Webber musical after all)


Why should the BBC be spending less on light entertainment though? And why specifically should BBC1 be spending less on light entertainment? BBC1 is supposed to be a big mainstream channel and light entertainment is a big part of being a big mainstream channel, no? I understand that you may not be the biggest fan of light entertainment formats and feel the money could be better spent on factual or sport or whatever but as I said before the BBC is a universal entity and it should be spending on big light entertainment formats particularly for primetime Saturday night BBC1. It is basically ridiculous that BBC1 have one big light entertainment hit for Saturday nights and that it only runs for 3 or 4 months out of 12. They need more light entertainment for that slot and that requires that they spend money.

As I said before I think there’s an argument to be had about whether The Voice is money well spent and whether they should have brought that in but I don’t think that argument extends to spending less on light entertainment in general. If they hadn’t spent the money on The Voice it should have still gone on a light entertainment format (or perhaps more likely a couple of formats). Personally I think its better that the BBC are apparently going to go all out launching one big format rather than trying to launch a series of much smaller formats. But that’s me.


Again this is one of those difficult balance things.

I don’t know if we need more factual content on the main BBC channels or whether it just needs to be better factual content (and perhaps scheduled better). I’ll never understand for example why the Our War series and Young Soldiers were on BBC3 and then pretty much buried in late night repeats on BBC1. Those were extraordinary series and I think should have had a primetime BBC1 airing. Perhaps there just needs to be more fluidity in the BBC schedules so they’re able to take what is clearly an exceptional piece of television and air it in primetime BBC1 or BBC2 rather than having to air it on BBC3 or 4 because that’s where it was commissioned?

I also tend to think that Panorama is on too often. It could do with having fewer (but longer) episodes a year I think. Perhaps they should start looking at investing in more factual strands that all have different focus and remits? Panorama would become the ‘investigative journalism’ strand producing one or two hour longs a month and then you have other strands running alongside it – something more focused on current affairs and perhaps one looking at international news or something along those lines.


How much is the current license for Match of the Day? I suspect it could be quite a big drain on the sports budget but the point here is that the Premier League highlights would find another terrestrial home and one of your key points against The Voice is that the BBC don’t need to air it because someone else would have. Surely therefore sports rights should be decided in the same way – will another terrestrial broadcaster bid on this and air it if the BBC don’t? Football highlights? Yes. Darts? Probably not.

It just seems to me that people accept that the BBC will have to (and does) spend large sums of money on securing what are popular sports rights but they get very unhappy about the idea that the BBC would do the same for what should be a popular light entertainment format. I just don’t know by what objective scale we’re deciding that sports rights are more important than light entertainment. It’s worth mentioning I think that The Voice will I’m sure be watched by more people than Match of the Day. And I believe I’m right in saying that F1 is watched by more people than Match of the Day yet I don’t think I’ve heard many people (if anyone) suggest that the BBC should have ditched Match of the Day and put the money saved into keeping F1 yet there’s been no end of ‘The Voice killed BBC1’s F1 coverage’ complaints.


But the BBC1 controller has also made it incredibly clear that he wants to spend money on developing new British comedy throughout 2012 and he’s been incredibly supportive of Panorama. Didn’t DQF also secure more drama funding for BBC1 (albeit only a small increase)? Yes they’ve brought The Voice for 2012 but it’s not as if that’s all they’re going to doing throughout the year.

That's a good point - do they have Doctor Who is the second quarter of 2012? I have no idea what's happening with it; they're filimg a batch of epsiodes, aren't they? I suppose the BBC are looking for a show to support the spring a la Britain's Got Talent. I guess whether they need to or not is the point that's been discussed throughout the evening. I wonder whether it's time to move Merlin to support another time of year, but if they do they'll need to have another show they want to promote and try and attract the anti-X Factor audience; not jut move it for the sake of it.


I think if they try to take it down The X Factor route then it'll fail so hopefully they won't take that route with it. I'm surprised the Lloyd Webber 'advert' didn't stir up more trouble to be honest, but I'm glad it didn't.


I suppose they're learning from ITV1 as well, who (outside Red or Black?) spread their light entertainment cash thinly, chucking a lot at the wall and hoping something stuck - in the end absolutely nothing did and they're basically no better off than last year.

I'm wondering whether the BBC should have looked to bring something back, maybe something like The Generation Game with Graham Norton hosting; I think actual gameshows have taken quite a hit and I think there is room for something like The Generation Game on a Saturday night again now.



I think you have a point there; I don't get why some series have just aired on BBC Three or Four just because they're commissioned there when they would work on the main two channels. Only Connect is one I always bring up as I think it would work well after University Challenge.


What I will say on this is I don't think it's right that programmes such as Match of the Day, which will probably find a home on another terrestrial channel, is preferred to more 'minority' sports which wouldn't/haven't. I'm also not sure why BBC agreed to go into partnership with Sky over a half baked contract for Formula One...surely one of the terrestrials would have been interested?

Sorry, I didn't understand you're original point earlier with Match of the Day - I get it now.


I hope he manages to find a few hits - I'm not sure if the old fashioned sitcom has a shelf life with the general public anymore, even though I prefer them!

In another development two months after Thames cancelled their top rating show, Green went on some kind of roadshow to have Op Knocks restored. He did get about 17,000 signatures to have it brought back, but then insulted a Radio Trent reporter live. Never again did he work in television, but near the end of his life he started giving interviews about his glory days and how awful Thames were to him.

That was the equivalent of a BOGOF at the supermarket and the items purchased don't have a "use by" date



It goes back into production 'round about March. I'd suggest it's likely to be back at about the same time Part 2 of the most recent series aired.

Thanks. It'll be interesting to see what they'll air around it.

The Rugby World Cup Final 2011 averaged 1.22m for Nine in Australia.

I'd love to bring you a full update, but OzTam's crackdown on the open publication of data has put pay to that. Good luck finding detailed Aussie figures from now on.

it will be great to see some New Zealand ratings. I think the itv commentator said all 3 of the main channels were showing it but another was showing jaws 4.

The whole "crisis" with The X-Factor is just a natural evolution. Every TV show has its day and maybe people are actually becoming slightly less interested in it than it used to be. It will one day disappear from the TV screens as new shows take over. There is no crisis, there is no problem. Also, with response to SCD having slightly increased ratings this year, maybe it's because people who might normally watch The X-Factor and have never watched SCD are actually watching it this year and think that actually, it's rather good!

But SCD will also have its day. Nothing remains popular forever.

Extremely strong figures were recorded in New Zealand as you'd expect, with a combined audience across the 4 channels of almost 2 million viewers!

RWC 2011 Post Game: 725,490 (TV ONE, 10:45pm - 11:00pm)
RWC 2011 F Live: 687,200 (TV ONE, 9:05pm - 10:45pm)
RWC 2011 Closing Ceremony: 649,320 (TV ONE, 11:00pm - 11:30pm)

RWC 2011 F Live: 599,770 (SKY Sport 1, 9:05pm - 10:45pm)

RWC 2011 F Live: 472,040 (TV3, 9:05pm - 10:45pm)

RWC 2011 F Live: 225,600 (Maori TV, 9:05pm - 10:45pm)

TOTAL (9:05pm - 10:45pm) 1,984,610

http://www.throng.co.nz/ratings/tv-r...ctober-23-2011

The BBC Trust and the Director General agree with you.

Lord Patten's introduction to DQF says (see link - 4/57):

"We want to protect the five editorial priorities that the Director-General has identified: news; children’s programming; UK drama and comedy; knowledge programming; and the coverage of events of national importance. These are the heart of the BBC, where it most clearly distinguishes itself from other programme makers.

That has to mean a reduction in the amount available to spend on some other areas, for example sport and entertainment ........."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/dqf...dproposals.pdf

Rights fee is approx £57m per year (*).

On top of that you need to add all production costs.

(*) Fee for 2007/10 was £57m per year which was publicly confirmed by the Premier League. Reports suggested the renewal for 2010/13 was at an almost identical price but I don't think any official figure was ever issued by the PL.

Er it says quite the opposite to Fudds argument, which is that the BBC shouldn't be doing a large scale entertainment show like The Voice.

The board want to maintain the spend on on big landmark and 'event' entertainment programming like Strictly, Comic Relief and C.I.N and to make shows similar with the same ambition and scale.

They actually recommend cuts in 'Non event' Entertainment shows like the cheap 5.30pm Saturday night gameshows and panel shows that have a lower impact.