Taste is subjective. And personally I couldn't even stomach 2 seconds of that song OP. Much prefer modern music.
Proof 1980s music is better than modern music,,,
2 of 6
Originally Posted by ajman:
“You do realise that sequencers only record midi information don't you? They don't actually write the music for you. And believe me Pro16 and Pro24, the industry standard sequencers in the '80s, were the most counter-productive, un-user friendly pieces of software possible and certainly weren't conducive for making music in the way that today's sequencers are.
Whilst I agree that being a gifted musician is a good thing you seem to think that people who make electronic music don't have this gift whereas people who make 'real' music do, which is obviously not true. You are overlooking the fact that electronic equipment can be as much an 'instrument' as a guitar or set of drums can. A good DJ or a good producer is just as skilled as someone who can play a guitar well, it's just the tools that are different.
Personally, I love the fact that electronic music in the '80s, and earlier, introduced a much wider palette of sounds and rhythms to music, broadening the boundaries of what music could be beyond the rather constrained definition utilised by guitar-based music at the time.”
“You do realise that sequencers only record midi information don't you? They don't actually write the music for you. And believe me Pro16 and Pro24, the industry standard sequencers in the '80s, were the most counter-productive, un-user friendly pieces of software possible and certainly weren't conducive for making music in the way that today's sequencers are.
Whilst I agree that being a gifted musician is a good thing you seem to think that people who make electronic music don't have this gift whereas people who make 'real' music do, which is obviously not true. You are overlooking the fact that electronic equipment can be as much an 'instrument' as a guitar or set of drums can. A good DJ or a good producer is just as skilled as someone who can play a guitar well, it's just the tools that are different.
Personally, I love the fact that electronic music in the '80s, and earlier, introduced a much wider palette of sounds and rhythms to music, broadening the boundaries of what music could be beyond the rather constrained definition utilised by guitar-based music at the time.”
Absolutely spot on. I would argue that a music producer has to be hugely skilled. They have to have an overview of what is going on. They have to go over and above just one instrument. They have to look at the balance between all the parts, whether it all works, whether bits need to be added or taken away...it is hugely challenging.
Isn't it great to that computer programmes allow more people to be able to create music? Why should it just be your drummers and guitar players? I think it is quite an elitist view myself...and I speak as a pianist/keyboard player.
Electronic music/dance music/disco/eurodance is popular because it is rich in texture, rhythmic, positive, catchy and uplifting. Those genres plus others wouldn't be possible without sythns, computers and keyboards.
Originally Posted by Eric_Blob:
“I make hip hop beats (using a MIDI keyboard and laptop) as a hobby, and I can't speak for everybody else, but for me personally, there's no way I'd be able to make them if I didn't know notes, chords, etc. Knowing about chord progressions, key signatures, etc. is absolutely vital in making sure the notes don't clash and so on. And no rappers will want to use one of your beats if all the notes are dissonant or clashing.”
“I make hip hop beats (using a MIDI keyboard and laptop) as a hobby, and I can't speak for everybody else, but for me personally, there's no way I'd be able to make them if I didn't know notes, chords, etc. Knowing about chord progressions, key signatures, etc. is absolutely vital in making sure the notes don't clash and so on. And no rappers will want to use one of your beats if all the notes are dissonant or clashing.”
if you know music then you will know how simple it is to avoid note clashes then. so simple a blind and even deaf person could do it. in fact deaf people could and have written music in the past. there was one very famous guy a long time ago who did it
but taking hip hop as a classic example, you must surely know how easy it can be to create hip hop tracks without knowing anything at all about notes or chords or being able to play any instrument. you just need to sample other records and talk over the top and voila a hip hop record
early hip hop in particularly was very minimalist in it's musicalness. it was partly the simplicity of being able to create such a music with samplers and sequencers that led to many hip hop artists becoming stars
Originally Posted by ajman:
“You do realise that sequencers only record midi information don't you? They don't actually write the music for you. And believe me Pro16 and Pro24, the industry standard sequencers in the '80s, were the most counter-productive, un-user friendly pieces of software possible and certainly weren't conducive for making music in the way that today's sequencers are.
Whilst I agree that being a gifted musician is a good thing you seem to think that people who make electronic music don't have this gift whereas people who make 'real' music do, which is obviously not true. You are overlooking the fact that electronic equipment can be as much an 'instrument' as a guitar or set of drums can. A good DJ or a good producer is just as skilled as someone who can play a guitar well, it's just the tools that are different.
Personally, I love the fact that electronic music in the '80s, and earlier, introduced a much wider palette of sounds and rhythms to music, broadening the boundaries of what music could be beyond the rather constrained definition utilised by guitar-based music at the time.”
“You do realise that sequencers only record midi information don't you? They don't actually write the music for you. And believe me Pro16 and Pro24, the industry standard sequencers in the '80s, were the most counter-productive, un-user friendly pieces of software possible and certainly weren't conducive for making music in the way that today's sequencers are.
Whilst I agree that being a gifted musician is a good thing you seem to think that people who make electronic music don't have this gift whereas people who make 'real' music do, which is obviously not true. You are overlooking the fact that electronic equipment can be as much an 'instrument' as a guitar or set of drums can. A good DJ or a good producer is just as skilled as someone who can play a guitar well, it's just the tools that are different.
Personally, I love the fact that electronic music in the '80s, and earlier, introduced a much wider palette of sounds and rhythms to music, broadening the boundaries of what music could be beyond the rather constrained definition utilised by guitar-based music at the time.”
having got my first professional sequencer in the 80s, and having see many 80s keyboards and synths like the fairlight CMI (which was extremely difficult to program and a PITA), i'm very aware of their capabilities, thus my statements from knowledgable experience
i think you posted without reading what was said. you might have looked at the words, but you didn't read or take in what was being said
just because someone is skilled or extremely skilled at using certain techniques does not mean they can and do make great music. take SAW's music as a great example. i'm sure they were quite skilled at doing what they did as they had a number of hit records, but the fact remains that the music they made was complete and utter shite. they had a great skill in making popular commercial music that sold, but they didn't make any good music
on the other hand, take kraftwerk, who made very electronic sounding albums, but there is a great depth to the music and they made some great albums
there is a huge difference to being skilled and to making something good
Originally Posted by unique:
“...but the use of computers in music allowed people to make music with less experience and knowledge of music, without having to learn to play an instrument, or even learn chords or notes...”
“...but the use of computers in music allowed people to make music with less experience and knowledge of music, without having to learn to play an instrument, or even learn chords or notes...”
Only in your opinion of course. Isn't it rather an elitist attitude to have, in my view, and totally not possible either? The use of computers when making music is rendered useless if you aren't musical and have no musical knowledge, in my view.
Quote:
“...but for ever decent or popular band like the clash or the sex pistols you had a hundred that just couldn't play properly...”
“...but for ever decent or popular band like the clash or the sex pistols you had a hundred that just couldn't play properly...”
Strictly in your opinion of course...others would beg to differ.
Quote:
“...moving from your meatmarkets playing shit like SAW and disco and god knows what else was in the charts, to music specifically made for dancing to in clubs...”
“...moving from your meatmarkets playing shit like SAW and disco and god knows what else was in the charts, to music specifically made for dancing to in clubs...”
Again, in your opinion, but wasn't disco/SAW/dance whatever made for the clubs...to party to, to dance to?
Quote:
“...with live music with real instruments, people had to take time and effort to learn to play the instruments, learn the chords and notes, then learn chord progressions and learn to put the chords and notes together to create music...”
“...with live music with real instruments, people had to take time and effort to learn to play the instruments, learn the chords and notes, then learn chord progressions and learn to put the chords and notes together to create music...”
Aren't synths/keyboards/computers instruments to? You can't just switch them on and away you go, you have to learn how to use them. You also need knowledge of chords and chord progressions.
Quote:
“...so instead of one person sitting in a room/studio/bedroom fiddling away at a computer on their own, you had a number of creative minds together in the same room, experimenting, jamming and being creative to create music, often with the aim of creating good music, rather than commercial music. an aim to be the best band in the world...”
“...so instead of one person sitting in a room/studio/bedroom fiddling away at a computer on their own, you had a number of creative minds together in the same room, experimenting, jamming and being creative to create music, often with the aim of creating good music, rather than commercial music. an aim to be the best band in the world...”
A tad patronising I feel. Using computers is just as creative as using live instruments...in my view.
BIB...more subjective words there. Your "good" is not necessarily the same as someone else's "good".
Quote:
“...there are of course people who are very skilled at creating music who go down the commercial route with an aim to sell the most records instead of creating the best music, and that practice became more prominent in the 80s than in any previous decade, as a team of people could create music in the studio, fronted by another person or group, promoted by music videos without the need to have a real backing band or play live...”
“...there are of course people who are very skilled at creating music who go down the commercial route with an aim to sell the most records instead of creating the best music, and that practice became more prominent in the 80s than in any previous decade, as a team of people could create music in the studio, fronted by another person or group, promoted by music videos without the need to have a real backing band or play live...”
All this is absolutely fine. You get song writers who can write "brilliant" songs but can't sing for toffee. They shouldn't be allowed to bring their songs to the masses via session singers/singers in general?
BIB...more subjective words there. Your "best" is not necessarily the same as someone else's "best".
The music industry is a business. It has to make money to survive...as any other business has to. If a record company puts out what you may consider to be "good" music, but it isn't popular with the masses and therefore doesn't sell, the record company goes bust...no more records. People buy the music they like, whatever that music happens to be.
Quote:
“...and that's when music started going down the toilet, with people creating music just to be commercial, and removing the live element, focusing on videos and dancing instead of the music...”
“...and that's when music started going down the toilet, with people creating music just to be commercial, and removing the live element, focusing on videos and dancing instead of the music...”
Only in your opinion. I am sure many people have been inspired by much of the popular music that has been out there through the years, I know I have...especially with the 80s.
Quote:
“...the 70s was a great period for music, both live and in the studio. keyboards became prominent and there were a lot of great electronic based acts such as stevie wonder and kraftwerk, but the 80s was an awful period for most...”
“...the 70s was a great period for music, both live and in the studio. keyboards became prominent and there were a lot of great electronic based acts such as stevie wonder and kraftwerk, but the 80s was an awful period for most...”
Only in your opinion. I thought, and still think, that the 80s were awesome. It was a decade which produced some of my favourite songs and sounds.
Originally Posted by Zack06:
“Taste is subjective. And personally I couldn't even stomach 2 seconds of that song OP. Much prefer modern music.”
“Taste is subjective. And personally I couldn't even stomach 2 seconds of that song OP. Much prefer modern music.”
Absolutely spot on Zack...the best post I have seen you ever write. Music is totally subjective. What you think is "great" won't necessarily mean that I think it is "great", but that is what makes the world interesting.
If you can say and back up why you think whoever is great from a musical point of you, that is good enough for me.
80's killed punk full of stupid gimmike music and softy's that love maggie thatcher if it was not for Smith or U2 and left over of Post Punk what would we,do and the 80s are happening now with David Camron and crap music.
Long live the 70's the real era of hard men and rock and roll.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1zMx4Eltbo
Long live the 70's the real era of hard men and rock and roll.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1zMx4Eltbo
Originally Posted by miles19740:
“Only in your opinion of course. Isn't it rather an elitist attitude to have, in my view, and totally not possible either? The use of computers when making music is rendered useless if you aren't musical and have no musical knowledge, in my view.
Strictly in your opinion of course...others would beg to differ.
Again, in your opinion, but wasn't disco/SAW/dance whatever made for the clubs...to party to, to dance to?
Aren't synths/keyboards/computers instruments to? You can't just switch them on and away you go, you have to learn how to use them. You also need knowledge of chords and chord progressions.
A tad patronising I feel. Using computers is just as creative as using live instruments...in my view.
BIB...more subjective words there. Your "good" is not necessarily the same as someone else's "good".
All this is absolutely fine. You get song writers who can write "brilliant" songs but can't sing for toffee. They shouldn't be allowed to bring their songs to the masses via session singers/singers in general?
BIB...more subjective words there. Your "best" is not necessarily the same as someone else's "best".
The music industry is a business. It has to make money to survive...as any other business has to. If a record company puts out what you may consider to be "good" music, but it isn't popular with the masses and therefore doesn't sell, the record company goes bust...no more records. People buy the music they like, whatever that music happens to be.
Only in your opinion. I am sure many people have been inspired by much of the popular music that has been out there through the years, I know I have...especially with the 80s.
Only in your opinion. I thought, and still think, that the 80s were awesome. It was a decade which produced some of my favourite songs and sounds.”
“Only in your opinion of course. Isn't it rather an elitist attitude to have, in my view, and totally not possible either? The use of computers when making music is rendered useless if you aren't musical and have no musical knowledge, in my view.
Strictly in your opinion of course...others would beg to differ.
Again, in your opinion, but wasn't disco/SAW/dance whatever made for the clubs...to party to, to dance to?
Aren't synths/keyboards/computers instruments to? You can't just switch them on and away you go, you have to learn how to use them. You also need knowledge of chords and chord progressions.
A tad patronising I feel. Using computers is just as creative as using live instruments...in my view.
BIB...more subjective words there. Your "good" is not necessarily the same as someone else's "good".
All this is absolutely fine. You get song writers who can write "brilliant" songs but can't sing for toffee. They shouldn't be allowed to bring their songs to the masses via session singers/singers in general?
BIB...more subjective words there. Your "best" is not necessarily the same as someone else's "best".
The music industry is a business. It has to make money to survive...as any other business has to. If a record company puts out what you may consider to be "good" music, but it isn't popular with the masses and therefore doesn't sell, the record company goes bust...no more records. People buy the music they like, whatever that music happens to be.
Only in your opinion. I am sure many people have been inspired by much of the popular music that has been out there through the years, I know I have...especially with the 80s.
Only in your opinion. I thought, and still think, that the 80s were awesome. It was a decade which produced some of my favourite songs and sounds.”
no-one is deny that people who produce or use computers or keyboards aren't skilled. i've made it very clear those people can be skilled, and some musicians can be less skilled
what i'm saying is that computers can help less skilled or even unskilled people create music, and whilst some of that music can be good, the downside is the majority is shite
SAW didn't make dance music for clubs, they made cheesy pop music. real clubs played house music whilst the tacky discos, meat markets and perhaps gaybars played that shit
keyboards/synths are instruments. didn't you bother reading what i said before you hit reply? you can make good and bad music with keyboards, electronic music can be good and can be bad
you really don't have much of a clue about music. calling people elitist because you don't understand what they are on about is a ridiculous response
i've also explained in detail on another thread to you about how music is not necesarily subjective and can be measured in specific realistic terms. did you forget about that too? try reading and thinking before you hit reply and you might come up with a more interesting response
Originally Posted by unique:
“no-one is deny that people who produce or use computers or keyboards aren't skilled. i've made it very clear those people can be skilled, and some musicians can be less skilled
what i'm saying is that computers can help less skilled or even unskilled people create music, and whilst some of that music can be good, the downside is the majority is shite
SAW didn't make dance music for clubs, they made cheesy pop music. real clubs played house music whilst the tacky discos, meat markets and perhaps gaybars played that shit
keyboards/synths are instruments. didn't you bother reading what i said before you hit reply? you can make good and bad music with keyboards, electronic music can be good and can be bad
you really don't have much of a clue about music. calling people elitist because you don't understand what they are on about is a ridiculous response
i've also explained in detail on another thread to you about how music is not necesarily subjective and can be measured in specific realistic terms. did you forget about that too? try reading and thinking before you hit reply and you might come up with a more interesting response”
“no-one is deny that people who produce or use computers or keyboards aren't skilled. i've made it very clear those people can be skilled, and some musicians can be less skilled
what i'm saying is that computers can help less skilled or even unskilled people create music, and whilst some of that music can be good, the downside is the majority is shite
SAW didn't make dance music for clubs, they made cheesy pop music. real clubs played house music whilst the tacky discos, meat markets and perhaps gaybars played that shit
keyboards/synths are instruments. didn't you bother reading what i said before you hit reply? you can make good and bad music with keyboards, electronic music can be good and can be bad
you really don't have much of a clue about music. calling people elitist because you don't understand what they are on about is a ridiculous response
i've also explained in detail on another thread to you about how music is not necesarily subjective and can be measured in specific realistic terms. did you forget about that too? try reading and thinking before you hit reply and you might come up with a more interesting response”
give it a rest.
Mushy ain't around and the fact is you believe your always right, people can have different views be it right or wrong...leave the personal remarks on the notepad and not on digitalspy
Last edited by too_fast_4_u : 15-10-2011 at 19:54
Originally Posted by unique:
“if you know music then you will know how simple it is to avoid note clashes then. so simple a blind and even deaf person could do it. in fact deaf people could and have written music in the past. there was one very famous guy a long time ago who did it
but taking hip hop as a classic example, you must surely know how easy it can be to create hip hop tracks without knowing anything at all about notes or chords or being able to play any instrument. you just need to sample other records and talk over the top and voila a hip hop record
early hip hop in particularly was very minimalist in it's musicalness. it was partly the simplicity of being able to create such a music with samplers and sequencers that led to many hip hop artists becoming stars”
“if you know music then you will know how simple it is to avoid note clashes then. so simple a blind and even deaf person could do it. in fact deaf people could and have written music in the past. there was one very famous guy a long time ago who did it
but taking hip hop as a classic example, you must surely know how easy it can be to create hip hop tracks without knowing anything at all about notes or chords or being able to play any instrument. you just need to sample other records and talk over the top and voila a hip hop record
early hip hop in particularly was very minimalist in it's musicalness. it was partly the simplicity of being able to create such a music with samplers and sequencers that led to many hip hop artists becoming stars”
I put a lot of effort into making my beats personally, since I try to be a perfectionist, and there's so many other people like me giving out free beats, that they really need to be as perfect as possible so the rappers choose them.
Yes, I could write music if I was deaf aswell. That was my point. Me, and all other good hip hop producers know which notes clash with which in each key signature. So even if I was deaf, I'd know not to have a C and a C-sharp playing at the same time.
As you said, it's very easy to learn. You can learn to play a keyboard (what most of the producers use) in a matter of hours quite well. Chords, etc. are easy to learn aswell. Anybody can learn how to play a keyboard and guitar in a short amount of time.
Early hip hop was more lyric-driven, so they didn't rely on the instrumental so much. Unfortunately, the mainstream hip hop of today is more beat-driven, although the lyrics still play a big part in many of the songs.
Personally, I don't sample from other songs very much, since it's too difficult. It's MUCH easier to do it from scratch tbh.
Originally Posted by unique:
“i've also explained in detail on another thread to you about how music is not necesarily subjective and can be measured in specific realistic terms. did you forget about that too? try reading and thinking before you hit reply and you might come up with a more interesting response”
“i've also explained in detail on another thread to you about how music is not necesarily subjective and can be measured in specific realistic terms. did you forget about that too? try reading and thinking before you hit reply and you might come up with a more interesting response”
Rubbish. Music is just like food in terms of people's perceptions. There are some types that are more popular i.e. fast-food and pop music, but rest assured that nearly everyone will have a different opinion on it.
No one can really measure whether a song is good or not. Sure it can be measured in terms of melody, lyrical strength etc, but at the end of the day, there is always going to be people who like and don't like, and no measurement can prove otherwise.
Taste in music IS subjective, fact.
Originally Posted by Zack06:
“... Taste in music IS subjective, fact.”
“... Taste in music IS subjective, fact.
”
Absolutely right. Taste in music is purely subjective. There is no such thing as "good", "bad", "right" or "wrong" when talking about music.
If someone can tell me why they like a song from a musical point of view, as opposed to such-and-such is fit/good looking or whatever, then that is fine by me.
Originally Posted by Eric_Blob:
“I put a lot of effort into making my beats personally, since I try to be a perfectionist, and there's so many other people like me giving out free beats, that they really need to be as perfect as possible so the rappers choose them.
Yes, I could write music if I was deaf aswell. That was my point. Me, and all other good hip hop producers know which notes clash with which in each key signature. So even if I was deaf, I'd know not to have a C and a C-sharp playing at the same time.
As you said, it's very easy to learn. You can learn to play a keyboard (what most of the producers use) in a matter of hours quite well. Chords, etc. are easy to learn aswell. Anybody can learn how to play a keyboard and guitar in a short amount of time.
Early hip hop was more lyric-driven, so they didn't rely on the instrumental so much. Unfortunately, the mainstream hip hop of today is more beat-driven, although the lyrics still play a big part in many of the songs.
Personally, I don't sample from other songs very much, since it's too difficult. It's MUCH easier to do it from scratch tbh.”
“I put a lot of effort into making my beats personally, since I try to be a perfectionist, and there's so many other people like me giving out free beats, that they really need to be as perfect as possible so the rappers choose them.
Yes, I could write music if I was deaf aswell. That was my point. Me, and all other good hip hop producers know which notes clash with which in each key signature. So even if I was deaf, I'd know not to have a C and a C-sharp playing at the same time.
As you said, it's very easy to learn. You can learn to play a keyboard (what most of the producers use) in a matter of hours quite well. Chords, etc. are easy to learn aswell. Anybody can learn how to play a keyboard and guitar in a short amount of time.
Early hip hop was more lyric-driven, so they didn't rely on the instrumental so much. Unfortunately, the mainstream hip hop of today is more beat-driven, although the lyrics still play a big part in many of the songs.
Personally, I don't sample from other songs very much, since it's too difficult. It's MUCH easier to do it from scratch tbh.”
the problem is that software like garageband or similar can make things so easy that kids don't want to spend time learning how to play real instruments, as they can make music without it
what's even sadder is kids spending hours playing games like guitar hero when if they spent the same time and effort with the real instrument they could learn how to play it properly instead of pushing different coloured buttons in time with the music
so with technology, which is completely fantastic, for every one person who is able to do something geniunely creative, there are easily a thousand who do something uninspiring and lazy
how many people for example will spend hours playing with loops on garageband because they don't have the patience to learn an instrument? whereas if there wasn't these type of tools available, or at least not in the reach of the majority, whilst traditional instruments were, more people would perhaps pickup real instruments and learn them
but it's not just the technology and the instruments, as i mentioned before, part of the creative process is getting together with similar minded people and jamming and bouncing ideas off each other. that's what's being lost when someone sits in front of a computer in their bedroom trying to make something on their own
one thing that history has shown is that some of the best music is a result of collaborations, whether it's lennon/macartney, page/plant, jagger/richards, leiber/stoller, bacharach/david
Originally Posted by Zack06:
“Rubbish. Music is just like food in terms of people's perceptions. There are some types that are more popular i.e. fast-food and pop music, but rest assured that nearly everyone will have a different opinion on it.
No one can really measure whether a song is good or not. Sure it can be measured in terms of melody, lyrical strength etc, but at the end of the day, there is always going to be people who like and don't like, and no measurement can prove otherwise.
Taste in music IS subjective, fact.”
“Rubbish. Music is just like food in terms of people's perceptions. There are some types that are more popular i.e. fast-food and pop music, but rest assured that nearly everyone will have a different opinion on it.
No one can really measure whether a song is good or not. Sure it can be measured in terms of melody, lyrical strength etc, but at the end of the day, there is always going to be people who like and don't like, and no measurement can prove otherwise.
Taste in music IS subjective, fact.
”
it's not rubbish, and you can use your food analogy in the same way too. there are specific measured ways in which you can compare these. how on earth do you think people can have quality control on food and drink? because there specific measurable terms
personal taste in regards to what an individual prefers is another thing entirely. you seem to be getting the two things confused. you can seperate personal preference. for example, there must surely be some music you enjoy that you know is shit? and you must surely know there is music that is great, but you simply don't enjoy it? just because you personally like or dislike something does not mean something is good or bad in specific measurable terms
take that god damn awful x factor show, or dancing on ice. the judges don't specifically pick people who are their personal choice, as that's not the aim of the show. their job is to pick the person most suitable for winning by using specific measured terms. from then onwards things may be left to the public vote or whatever they do, but there are selection rounds where people are narrowed down by using specific measurable terms
Originally Posted by unique:
“the problem is that software like garageband or similar can make things so easy that kids don't want to spend time learning how to play real instruments, as they can make music without it
what's even sadder is kids spending hours playing games like guitar hero when if they spent the same time and effort with the real instrument they could learn how to play it properly instead of pushing different coloured buttons in time with the music
so with technology, which is completely fantastic, for every one person who is able to do something geniunely creative, there are easily a thousand who do something uninspiring and lazy
how many people for example will spend hours playing with loops on garageband because they don't have the patience to learn an instrument? whereas if there wasn't these type of tools available, or at least not in the reach of the majority, whilst traditional instruments were, more people would perhaps pickup real instruments and learn them
but it's not just the technology and the instruments, as i mentioned before, part of the creative process is getting together with similar minded people and jamming and bouncing ideas off each other. that's what's being lost when someone sits in front of a computer in their bedroom trying to make something on their own
one thing that history has shown is that some of the best music is a result of collaborations, whether it's lennon/macartney, page/plant, jagger/richards, leiber/stoller, bacharach/david”
“the problem is that software like garageband or similar can make things so easy that kids don't want to spend time learning how to play real instruments, as they can make music without it
what's even sadder is kids spending hours playing games like guitar hero when if they spent the same time and effort with the real instrument they could learn how to play it properly instead of pushing different coloured buttons in time with the music
so with technology, which is completely fantastic, for every one person who is able to do something geniunely creative, there are easily a thousand who do something uninspiring and lazy
how many people for example will spend hours playing with loops on garageband because they don't have the patience to learn an instrument? whereas if there wasn't these type of tools available, or at least not in the reach of the majority, whilst traditional instruments were, more people would perhaps pickup real instruments and learn them
but it's not just the technology and the instruments, as i mentioned before, part of the creative process is getting together with similar minded people and jamming and bouncing ideas off each other. that's what's being lost when someone sits in front of a computer in their bedroom trying to make something on their own
one thing that history has shown is that some of the best music is a result of collaborations, whether it's lennon/macartney, page/plant, jagger/richards, leiber/stoller, bacharach/david”
You clearly do not have a clue about how people make music using technology. I've never played Guitar Hero in my life, and I don't use Garage Band.
Also, collaborations are a MASSIVE part of hip hop.
Personally, I know more people my age that play an instrument than can make music on a computer.
Originally Posted by unique:
“it's not rubbish, and you can use your food analogy in the same way too. there are specific measured ways in which you can compare these. how on earth do you think people can have quality control on food and drink? because there specific measurable terms
personal taste in regards to what an individual prefers is another thing entirely. you seem to be getting the two things confused. you can seperate personal preference. for example, there must surely be some music you enjoy that you know is shit? and you must surely know there is music that is great, but you simply don't enjoy it? just because you personally like or dislike something does not mean something is good or bad in specific measurable terms
take that god damn awful x factor show, or dancing on ice. the judges don't specifically pick people who are their personal choice, as that's not the aim of the show. their job is to pick the person most suitable for winning by using specific measured terms. from then onwards things may be left to the public vote or whatever they do, but there are selection rounds where people are narrowed down by using specific measurable terms”
“it's not rubbish, and you can use your food analogy in the same way too. there are specific measured ways in which you can compare these. how on earth do you think people can have quality control on food and drink? because there specific measurable terms
personal taste in regards to what an individual prefers is another thing entirely. you seem to be getting the two things confused. you can seperate personal preference. for example, there must surely be some music you enjoy that you know is shit? and you must surely know there is music that is great, but you simply don't enjoy it? just because you personally like or dislike something does not mean something is good or bad in specific measurable terms
take that god damn awful x factor show, or dancing on ice. the judges don't specifically pick people who are their personal choice, as that's not the aim of the show. their job is to pick the person most suitable for winning by using specific measured terms. from then onwards things may be left to the public vote or whatever they do, but there are selection rounds where people are narrowed down by using specific measurable terms”
What are you on about 'specific measurable terms'...what are these exactly?
Obviously if the food is not cooked right or is burnt, extreme bad taste no-one is going to like it, just like if someone sings hideously out of tune they get a unanimously negative opinion. That is a given...
I'm talking about things within the range of acceptability, and there is no denying that people will have different opinions within this range. That is pretty much fact.
I never said that just because I don't like it means it is bad, you said that taste isn't subjective which is an erroneous statement. Everyone will have different ideas of good and bad so there is no real way to 'measure' taste in music unless you are looking at extreme like and dislike.
Originally Posted by Eric_Blob:
“You clearly do not have a clue about how people make music using technology. I've never played Guitar Hero in my life, and I don't use Garage Band.
Also, collaborations are a MASSIVE part of hip hop.
Personally, I know more people my age that play an instrument than can make music on a computer.”
“You clearly do not have a clue about how people make music using technology. I've never played Guitar Hero in my life, and I don't use Garage Band.
Also, collaborations are a MASSIVE part of hip hop.
Personally, I know more people my age that play an instrument than can make music on a computer.”
i bet i know more about making music than you will ever know in your life
hip hop is one of my favourite genres, so i know all about collabs in hip hop. if you read what i said in context about the topic in question, which is 80s music, you would view things differently
Originally Posted by Zack06:
“What are you on about 'specific measurable terms'...what are these exactly?
Obviously if the food is not cooked right or is burnt, extreme bad taste no-one is going to like it, just like if someone sings hideously out of tune they get a unanimously negative opinion. That is a given...
I'm talking about things within the range of acceptability, and there is no denying that people will have different opinions within this range. That is pretty much fact.
I never said that just because I don't like it means it is bad, you said that taste isn't subjective which is an erroneous statement. Everyone will have different ideas of good and bad so there is no real way to 'measure' taste in music unless you are looking at extreme like and dislike.”
“What are you on about 'specific measurable terms'...what are these exactly?
Obviously if the food is not cooked right or is burnt, extreme bad taste no-one is going to like it, just like if someone sings hideously out of tune they get a unanimously negative opinion. That is a given...
I'm talking about things within the range of acceptability, and there is no denying that people will have different opinions within this range. That is pretty much fact.
I never said that just because I don't like it means it is bad, you said that taste isn't subjective which is an erroneous statement. Everyone will have different ideas of good and bad so there is no real way to 'measure' taste in music unless you are looking at extreme like and dislike.”
Spot on Zack...so tell me...songs / producers / artists from the 80s who you like and why...
Originally Posted by Zack06:
“What are you on about 'specific measurable terms'...what are these exactly?
Obviously if the food is not cooked right or is burnt, extreme bad taste no-one is going to like it, just like if someone sings hideously out of tune they get a unanimously negative opinion. That is a given...
I'm talking about things within the range of acceptability, and there is no denying that people will have different opinions within this range. That is pretty much fact.
I never said that just because I don't like it means it is bad, you said that taste isn't subjective which is an erroneous statement. Everyone will have different ideas of good and bad so there is no real way to 'measure' taste in music unless you are looking at extreme like and dislike.”
“What are you on about 'specific measurable terms'...what are these exactly?
Obviously if the food is not cooked right or is burnt, extreme bad taste no-one is going to like it, just like if someone sings hideously out of tune they get a unanimously negative opinion. That is a given...
I'm talking about things within the range of acceptability, and there is no denying that people will have different opinions within this range. That is pretty much fact.
I never said that just because I don't like it means it is bad, you said that taste isn't subjective which is an erroneous statement. Everyone will have different ideas of good and bad so there is no real way to 'measure' taste in music unless you are looking at extreme like and dislike.”
ah, so you can begin to understand what i've been saying
btw, i don't know if i quoted you at any time or not, as i don't pay attention to post names, but nothing i've said is directly in response to anyone in particular
but it is a good start if people can recognise the difference between what is good and bad and what their personal likes and dislikes are
Originally Posted by unique:
“no-one is deny that people who produce or use computers or keyboards aren't skilled. i've made it very clear those people can be skilled, and some musicians can be less skilled
what i'm saying is that computers can help less skilled or even unskilled people create music, and whilst some of that music can be good, the downside is the majority is shite”
“no-one is deny that people who produce or use computers or keyboards aren't skilled. i've made it very clear those people can be skilled, and some musicians can be less skilled
what i'm saying is that computers can help less skilled or even unskilled people create music, and whilst some of that music can be good, the downside is the majority is shite”
Aside from the fact that the majority of electronic music was recorded using multi-track tape recorders up until the early to mid '80s in exactly the same way that guitar-based music was, I fail to see what you think that sequencers added to the ease of making electronic music that wasn't available to someone producing guitar-based music with a multi-track tape recorder. Alright so sequencers allow you to arrange a track but this doesn't add anything to the quality of the music being recorded. Fast forward to today and with the advances in digital audio recording allowing tools such as pitch correction and audio quantising to be available to people making both electronic and guitar-based music your statement is now completely redundant.
Quote:
“SAW didn't make dance music for clubs, they made cheesy pop music.”
“SAW didn't make dance music for clubs, they made cheesy pop music.”
So SAW were in it for the money in exactly the same way that Chinn and Chapman were in the '70s. In my opinion the majority of their output was equally mediocre but I'm guessing that you think because their music was played by 'real' bands it was somehow more worthy.
Originally Posted by ajman:
“Aside from the fact that the majority of electronic music was recorded using multi-track tape recorders up until the early to mid '80s in exactly the same way that guitar-based music was, I fail to see what you think that sequencers added to the ease of making electronic music that wasn't available to someone producing guitar-based music with a multi-track tape recorder. Alright so sequencers allow you to arrange a track but this doesn't add anything to the quality of the music being recorded. Fast forward to today and with the advances in digital audio recording allowing tools such as pitch correction and audio quantising to be available to people making both electronic and guitar-based music your statement is now completely redundant.
So SAW were in it for the money in exactly the same way that Chinn and Chapman were in the '70s. In my opinion the majority of their output was equally mediocre but I'm guessing that you think because their music was played by 'real' bands it was somehow more worthy.”
“Aside from the fact that the majority of electronic music was recorded using multi-track tape recorders up until the early to mid '80s in exactly the same way that guitar-based music was, I fail to see what you think that sequencers added to the ease of making electronic music that wasn't available to someone producing guitar-based music with a multi-track tape recorder. Alright so sequencers allow you to arrange a track but this doesn't add anything to the quality of the music being recorded. Fast forward to today and with the advances in digital audio recording allowing tools such as pitch correction and audio quantising to be available to people making both electronic and guitar-based music your statement is now completely redundant.
So SAW were in it for the money in exactly the same way that Chinn and Chapman were in the '70s. In my opinion the majority of their output was equally mediocre but I'm guessing that you think because their music was played by 'real' bands it was somehow more worthy.”
Absolutely right. I think it is safe to say that all artists, singers, bands, producers and record companies are in it for the money.
Originally Posted by unique:
“i bet i know more about making music than you will ever know in your life
hip hop is one of my favourite genres, so i know all about collabs in hip hop. if you read what i said in context about the topic in question, which is 80s music, you would view things differently”
“i bet i know more about making music than you will ever know in your life
hip hop is one of my favourite genres, so i know all about collabs in hip hop. if you read what i said in context about the topic in question, which is 80s music, you would view things differently”
I know full well that hip hop is not one of your favourite genres.
Originally Posted by Eric_Blob:
“I know full well that hip hop is not one of your favourite genres.”
“I know full well that hip hop is not one of your favourite genres.”
really? well my first 12" record was by a well known old skool hip hop artist who i later appeared in a music video with
the first artist i saw in concert was another well known old skool hip hop artist
i was even at a recording with ice T's bodycount that was released at the height of their fame
what would probably impress you the most would be my collection of original streetsounds records that are in excellent quality. along with my digital dj setups i still have my decks setup along with my cd decks, so i can play any of my 12"s from any genre, hip hop, house, jazz, funk, etc
my twitter account may also give a few clues with the likes of ?uestlove and chuck d being two of the most prolific tweeters i interact with. both of which have been in one of the studios i've visited a few times, once ?uesty performed there. another time the old skooler whom i bought my very first 12" was freestyling in the studio with a dj, and beatboxing over the top
i have an extremely wide taste in music, as a result i've dj'ed around the world in a number of different styles of music, and i've taught myself to play most instruments as well as learn computer music software which i've been using since the 80s. i've even been able to play with instruments that probably every poster in the music forum has heard on records. i've also met writers, producers and performers who have played on the biggest selling records of all time and worked with the biggest acts of all time. and i got to achieve that through my love, experience and knowledge of music, having the drive and ambition and ensuring i was in the right place at the right time
elvis was a hero to most...
Originally Posted by Eric_Blob:
“It's a good song on first listen.
But some songs from this week's top 40 that I think prefer:
Dappy - No Regrets
Delilah - Go
Rihanna - Cheers
Emeli Sande - Heaven
Rizzle Kicks - Down With the Trumpets
Ed Sheeran - You Need Me
Wretch 32 - Don't Go
That's just down to opinion though. Obviously, if you grew up in the 80's, you're not going to like those songs.
A couple of them (Go and Heaven) rip-off or sample 80's songs aswell, I think.”
“It's a good song on first listen.
But some songs from this week's top 40 that I think prefer:
Dappy - No Regrets
Delilah - Go
Rihanna - Cheers
Emeli Sande - Heaven
Rizzle Kicks - Down With the Trumpets
Ed Sheeran - You Need Me
Wretch 32 - Don't Go
That's just down to opinion though. Obviously, if you grew up in the 80's, you're not going to like those songs.
A couple of them (Go and Heaven) rip-off or sample 80's songs aswell, I think.”
Why not? Would people who grew up in the 80s be too old to like those songs?
Or maybe it's just because you couldn't possibly have chosen songs and artists more representative of what is wrong with today's music.
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