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Masoods/Syed/Amira Storyline and Islamic Questions


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Old 15-10-2011, 13:42
catsmeow
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1 When Yusuf was trying to kiss Zainab (yuk) he said to her that she is practically divorced. Practically? I thought Zainab and Masood were convinced they were divorced by talaq. So they must still need to get a legal divorce it seems. I don't know if anyone caught that he said practically.


2 If Syed is going after a legal divorce and gets it but does not say talaq to Amira then they will still be married in the eyes of Allah. This seems to be the opposite situation to Syed's parents who are divorced according to Islam but not legally. Syed and Amira may end up divorced legally but not according to Islam.


3 If Syed tries to insist on Christian also getting rights and custody would not a judge be able to refuse on the grounds of religious rights, because Yasmin as a Muslim child has the right to be brought up by Muslim parents and both Syed and Christian have the responsibility to bring her up Muslim. Christian is not able to do this and I am surprised that when Syed saw his lawyer friend who is Muslim he was not told this. Yasmin has rights as a Muslim child.
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Old 15-10-2011, 13:44
D. Morgan
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Why doesn't Syed just grab Amira's hands and chant like Mas did to Zainab? Simple.
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Old 15-10-2011, 14:11
indiefran18
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1. He did say this. He said "practically" to express they had not divorced by civil law yet.

2. Syed needs to divorce Amira by civil law as this is what is relevant for allowing him to marry again. He will also divorce Islamically.

3. No. Non-Muslims are allowed near Muslim children. It would be illegal not to. Syed will raise the baby Muslim. Christian being in the same house clearly means absolutely nothing. Amira, it should be noted, doesn't observe anyway.
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Old 15-10-2011, 14:25
puppetangel
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1. He did say this. He said "practically" to express they had not divorced by civil law yet.

2. Syed needs to divorce Amira by civil law as this is what is relevant for allowing him to marry again. He will also divorce Islamically.

3. No. Non-Muslims are allowed near Muslim children. It would be illegal not to. Syed will raise the baby Muslim. Christian being in the same house clearly means absolutely nothing. Amira, it should be noted, doesn't observe anyway.
If Masson and Zainab were married in Pakistan would they have had a civil wedding or just a muslim one? So if they didn't marry in the UK why would they need a legal divorce?

Bit confused about this, as I hear that some muslim's are marrying in the UK without getting an official civil ceremony and hence no legal rights as a wife.
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Old 15-10-2011, 14:29
catsmeow
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1. He did say this. He said "practically" to express they had not divorced by civil law yet.

2. Syed needs to divorce Amira by civil law as this is what is relevant for allowing him to marry again. He will also divorce Islamically. 3. No. Non-Muslims are allowed near Muslim children. It would be illegal not to. Syed will raise the baby Muslim. Christian being in the same house clearly means absolutely nothing. Amira, it should be noted, doesn't observe anyway.

You don't know yet whether Syed will say talaq, how can you know that. The writers may have forgotten about talaq by that time. Perhaps if Syed said talaq first then Amira would know he is serious about divorcing.

Yes, non Muslims are allowed near Muslim children. But Christian is not just going to be in the same house is he? Do you really think he will be content to just being in the same house. He encroaches on everything and I can see him wanting to be stepdad and having a say in her upbringing. He wanted to adopt a child, he will not be content with being a bystander. It is not the point how much Islam Amira practices. Syed practices the bits he like and Christian does not practice at all. But she could still use religion to keep Christian away.
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Old 15-10-2011, 14:31
vald
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I've never understood how Yusef and Zainab were divorced, surely he wouldn't have divorced her ( Islamic divorce ) ?
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Old 15-10-2011, 14:32
catsmeow
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If Masson and Zainab were married in Pakistan would they have had a civil wedding or just a muslim one? So if they didn't marry in the UK why would they need a legal divorce?

Bit confused about this, as I hear that some muslim's are marrying in the UK without getting an official civil ceremony and hence no legal rights as a wife.
No a civil ceremony is not required in Pak because it is a Muslim country. Nikkah is accepted by the government. To be honest I don't know where the Masoods were married. I asked the question on the forum and most people replied to me they were married here in UK. I am also confused why the Masoods think they are divorced but Yusuf thinks they are practically divorce.
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Old 15-10-2011, 15:07
indiefran18
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If Masson and Zainab were married in Pakistan would they have had a civil wedding or just a muslim one? So if they didn't marry in the UK why would they need a legal divorce?

Bit confused about this, as I hear that some muslim's are marrying in the UK without getting an official civil ceremony and hence no legal rights as a wife.
EE change things constantly but I assume the Masoods are civil married as they own a house, pay tax etc (so it makes sense financially), and Masood I think lived in England for years beforehand. But who knows what EE will decide!

You don't know yet whether Syed will say talaq, how can you know that. The writers may have forgotten about talaq by that time. Perhaps if Syed said talaq first then Amira would know he is serious about divorcing.

Yes, non Muslims are allowed near Muslim children. But Christian is not just going to be in the same house is he? Do you really think he will be content to just being in the same house. He encroaches on everything and I can see him wanting to be stepdad and having a say in her upbringing. He wanted to adopt a child, he will not be content with being a bystander. It is not the point how much Islam Amira practices. Syed practices the bits he like and Christian does not practice at all. But she could still use religion to keep Christian away.
BIB 1: We saw him marry her Islamically therefore he will have to divorce her Islamically. He mentioned this to Tanya. You won't necessarily see it - it's a soap, a lot happens offscreen. Amira and Syed's civil marriage wasn't even shown.

BIB2: No she couldn't. The idea that Christian being a non-Muslim would reduce Syed's parental rights is only possible if the court was full of bigots. It would never happen.
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Old 15-10-2011, 15:36
catsmeow
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EE change things constantly but I assume the Masoods are civil married as they own a house, pay tax etc (so it makes sense financially), and Masood I think lived in England for years beforehand. But who knows what EE will decide!



BIB 1: We saw him marry her Islamically therefore he will have to divorce her Islamically. He mentioned this to Tanya. You won't necessarily see it - it's a soap, a lot happens offscreen. Amira and Syed's civil marriage wasn't even shown.

BIB2: No she couldn't. The idea that Christian being a non-Muslim would reduce Syed's parental rights is only possible if the court was full of bigots. It would never happen.

No not that it would reduce Syed's parental rights but deny Christian any rights to be involved in her upbringing and care. Amira could go to a Sharia court and win but I don't know if that would be accepted in UK law.
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Old 15-10-2011, 15:43
Monster101
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No not that it would reduce Syed's parental rights but deny Christian any rights to be involved in her upbringing and care. Amira could go to a Sharia court and win but I don't know if that would be accepted in UK law.
it most certainly should not be accepted in modern britain!
infact there should be Sharia nothing in this country. why on earth do we want to go backwards hundreds of years!

and as for the baby being a muslim. im afraid she can be whatever she wants when she grows up. she should not have any poppycock beliefs forced upon her. therefore if amira ditches the baby, then syed and christian are well within there rights to bring up the child together, no matter what religion the baby is.

and besides which one of the masoods actually follows islam properly?!
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:00
catsmeow
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it most certainly should not be accepted in modern britain!
infact there should be Sharia nothing in this country. why on earth do we want to go backwards hundreds of years!

and as for the baby being a muslim. im afraid she can be whatever she wants when she grows up. she should not have any poppycock beliefs forced upon her. therefore if amira ditches the baby, then syed and christian are well within there rights to bring up the child together, no matter what religion the baby is.

and besides which one of the masoods actually follows islam properly?!

Well I believe that Jewish courts are used in Uk, so why not Muslim ones? And as for Yasmin choosing whether to be Muslim you said it exactly - when she grows up. She is not able to make that decision yet. And I am well aware the Masoods do not practice Islam to the letter, that is not the point. The point I was making was that Amira could use religious grounds, that in her religion anyone actively involved in Yasmin's upbringing needs to be Muslim. I would be surprised if a Uk court would deny religious grounds seeing as Jews are allowed to have their own courts and rulings and UK itself is Church of England.
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:04
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Well I believe that Jewish courts are used in Uk, so why not Muslim ones? And as for Yasmin choosing whether to be Muslim you said it exactly - when she grows up. She is not able to make that decision yet. And I am well aware the Masoods do not practice Islam to the letter, that is not the point. The point I was making was that Amira could use religious grounds, that in her religion anyone actively involved in Yasmin's upbringing needs to be Muslim. I would be surprised if a Uk court would deny religious grounds seeing as Jews are allowed to have their own courts and rulings and UK itself is Church of England.
Courts aren't supposed to take that sort of thing into account though, they are supposed to be impartial.

If you brought religious grounds into it then someone could get off with murder by claiming God made them do it.

It doesn't matter if there are religious courts, Amira could take this through a Sharia court but if Syed went through the British courts then any ruling by the Sharia court would be overturned.
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:14
Liz G-S
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Syed also has a say in how his daughter is brought up - and if Christian is his legal partner, then he has a right to be involved to the extent that Syed agrees to. Chrisitan will have no say in Yasmin's actual upbringing, the decisions regards schooling, doctors, religion etc, are made by the parents alone - but he will know this. However, he can take part in the normal day to day care. No judge would allow a mother to use the religion of the father's partner to prevent him from being anywhere near the child - it causes unnecessary stress to the child and potential damage to the relationship between child and father.
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:16
cheesypuffballs
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In Islam there is a 3 month period where the couple may reconcile if they wish.
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:17
catsmeow
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Courts aren't supposed to take that sort of thing into account though, they are supposed to be impartial.

If you brought religious grounds into it then someone could get off with murder by claiming God made them do it.

It doesn't matter if there are religious courts, Amira could take this through a Sharia court but if Syed went through the British courts then any ruling by the Sharia court would be overturned.

I don't know alot about Uk law so are you saying there is not the freedom here to follow the laws of one's religion?
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:17
hobbleit
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In Islam there is a 3 month period where the couple may reconcile if they wish.
Is that 3 months from the initial split?

Because if it is that ship sailed long ago.

(I'm not being sarcastic there, if I come across as it sorry, I actually don't know much about Islam divorce practices).
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:20
hobbleit
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I don't know alot about Uk law so are you saying there is not the freedom here to follow the laws of one's religion?
You can follow the laws of your own religion but when it comes to the courts that doesn't matter. In the courts you are judged by the laws of the country and since the UK is a secular country religious laws do not come into it.
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:21
catsmeow
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You can follow the laws of your own religion but when it comes to the courts that doesn't matter. In the courts you are judged by the laws of the country and since the UK is a secular country religious laws do not come into it.
If Uk is a secular country then where does Church of England fit in?
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:23
hobbleit
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If Uk is a secular country then where does Church of England fit in?
It's mostly just ceremonial now. Most people don't give a damn about religion even though technically England is a Christian country and the Queen is the head of the CofE.

ETA: since The restoration everything's been kept separate so the Monarchy isn't seen as God's representative on earth.
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:26
catsmeow
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Is that 3 months from the initial split?

Because if it is that ship sailed long ago.

(I'm not being sarcastic there, if I come across as it sorry, I actually don't know much about Islam divorce practices).

The third talaq is irrevocable. How can I say this in mixed forum. The waiting period of a woman who has not had the change is three monthly cycles after pronouncement of the divorce. I think I did not explain that right.
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:28
hobbleit
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The third talaq is irrevocable. How can I say this in mixed forum. The waiting period of a woman who has not had the change is three monthly cycles after pronouncement of the divorce. I think I did not explain that right.
So are the Talaq's said together or can there be a period of time separating them?

Is the 3 months to make sure she's not pregnant?
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:31
Monster101
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I don't know alot about Uk law so are you saying there is not the freedom here to follow the laws of one's religion?
religion causes alot of trouble. people use it as an excuse for everything, bigotry and so on and so forth.
at the end of the day great britain is more than aware that religion is not fact and is simply a belief.
common sense would tell you it should never ever be used in a court of law, and nor should it be used to play with peoples lives!
leave that to the eastern countries, and the bizarre little groups in america.
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:35
Liz G-S
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I don't know alot about Uk law so are you saying there is not the freedom here to follow the laws of one's religion?
You have to follow the laws of the country in which you are living. For example, if someone who was also married by civil law divorced through Islamic tradition only and remarried, they would be committing bigamy, a crime with a possible prison term. I would also not expect a marriage to be recognised by the State if they couple did not go through a civil ceremony. This is true of all other religions too, apart from the Church of England, whose vicars are authorised to officiate at the signing of the register - and maybe the Jewish faith, although I am not sure about the latter.
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:41
catsmeow
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So are the Talaq's said together or can there be a period of time separating them?

Is the 3 months to make sure she's not pregnant?
Well divorce is accepted if said three times together but in Quran it advises an interim before the third talaq is said. This is to give the husband time to rethink if he is having a change of heart. I am sure that many marriages have been saved and couples have reconciled during the interim time. Talaq is not meant to be a form of instant divorce.
The iddah or waiting period is so that if a woman is pregnant there leaves no doubt about who the father is, the ex-husband or the new one if she remarries.
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Old 15-10-2011, 16:42
hobbleit
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Well divorce is accepted if said three times together but in Quran it advises an interim before the third talaq is said. This is to give the husband time to rethink if he is having a change of heart. I am sure that many marriages have been saved and couples have reconciled during the interim time. Talaq is not meant to be a form of instant divorce.
The iddah or waiting period is so that if a woman is pregnant there leaves no doubt about who the father is, the ex-husband or the new one if she remarries.
thank you. It's quite interesting to read about other cultures and religions.
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