Originally Posted by bandish1888:
“Siri works great!, much better than I think everyone expected it to”
“Siri works great!, much better than I think everyone expected it to”
What's the camera like ?
Apple have done it again
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Originally Posted by seellee:
“Which isn't surprising at all given the many different devices that run Android and the lower cost of handsets.”
“Which isn't surprising at all given the many different devices that run Android and the lower cost of handsets.”
ahh that old chestnut...the cost. Us android users are just so poor, surprised we can afford a phone.
Originally Posted by ACU:
“ahh that old chestnut...the cost. Us android users are just so poor, surprised we can afford a phone.”
“ahh that old chestnut...the cost. Us android users are just so poor, surprised we can afford a phone.
”
I'm not talking about the people into phones, they will pay whatever they need to. Android is also available on lower cost phones, where as iPhone rightly or wrongly comes at a premium and you have less choice.
For instance a friend of mine really wanted an iPhone, but couldn't justify the cost. I advised him to look at a HTC phone as I quite like them and the cost was lower. So I do my bit for Android too
It wasn't a pot shot at Android as I admire the operating system, and I'm glad the market is so competitive. The figures in that article were hardly surprising given the facts.
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“What a naive comment.
I personally funded a research project at Leeds University out of my own pocket back in 1996 to investigate the use of speech recognition in aircraft to automatically recognise ATC transmissions and record them textually. I also drove the MD of Psion software on a demo around London in my car demonstrating an in car sat nav system developed by my company that was speech driven (happened to use the Psion Organiser as an intelligent display) also back in 1996 - before people had even heard of GPS.
So I think I understand a little about speech recognition technology, its history and its pitfalls. I'm telling you that Siri is head and shoulders over what has come before.”
“What a naive comment.
I personally funded a research project at Leeds University out of my own pocket back in 1996 to investigate the use of speech recognition in aircraft to automatically recognise ATC transmissions and record them textually. I also drove the MD of Psion software on a demo around London in my car demonstrating an in car sat nav system developed by my company that was speech driven (happened to use the Psion Organiser as an intelligent display) also back in 1996 - before people had even heard of GPS.
So I think I understand a little about speech recognition technology, its history and its pitfalls. I'm telling you that Siri is head and shoulders over what has come before.”
You'll recognise then, that in terms of voice RECOGNITION, siri is no better than any other offering.
Originally Posted by paulbrock:
“You'll recognise then, that in terms of voice RECOGNITION, siri is no better than any other offering.”
“You'll recognise then, that in terms of voice RECOGNITION, siri is no better than any other offering.”
Agreed, it still seems a bit hit and miss. What intrigues me is that I remember reading an article about how Google built their search AI, that said unlike competitors who used thousands of items per data set, they used billions. I can only imagine that they've also been doing the same for voice recognition, and it can't be long before they put all the data they've collected to good use in terms of better voice recognition for Google services. Bear in mind that Android phones have been collecting voice search information since launch, so there's a lot of data there...
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“It was a fair opinion in that Apple is promoting much of what has essentially been around for years.
And there were plenty of other threads discussing Siri.
Of course I could also say the users 'have done it again'.”
“It was a fair opinion in that Apple is promoting much of what has essentially been around for years.
And there were plenty of other threads discussing Siri.
Of course I could also say the users 'have done it again'.”
actually no - the suggestion that the OP was a fashion victim really wasn't fair.
firstly, i'm going to assume you haven't actually used Siri yet, so are not really in a position to comment.
secondly, lots of things have been around for years. that doesn't in and of itself mean that any current versions of those things aren't better than previous versions.
thirdly, it just gets boring that no-one can ever manage to post anything remotely positive about an Apple product without someone chomping at the bit to shout them down as sheeple, iDrones or fashion victims.
Iain
Originally Posted by iain:
“actually no - the suggestion that the OP was a fashion victim really wasn't fair.
firstly, i'm going to assume you haven't actually used Siri yet, so are not really in a position to comment.
secondly, lots of things have been around for years. that doesn't in and of itself mean that any current versions of those things aren't better than previous versions.
thirdly, it just gets boring that no-one can ever manage to post anything remotely positive about an Apple product without someone chomping at the bit to shout them down as sheeple, iDrones or fashion victims.
Iain”
“actually no - the suggestion that the OP was a fashion victim really wasn't fair.
firstly, i'm going to assume you haven't actually used Siri yet, so are not really in a position to comment.
secondly, lots of things have been around for years. that doesn't in and of itself mean that any current versions of those things aren't better than previous versions.
thirdly, it just gets boring that no-one can ever manage to post anything remotely positive about an Apple product without someone chomping at the bit to shout them down as sheeple, iDrones or fashion victims.
Iain”
To be fair, the first post in this thread, was a bit OTT, and frankly something that a fanboy would post. Hence was going to get slated. There is nothing wrong with posting positive stuff about apple. I have done it in the past. You give credit where credit is due. I dont know how good siri is, but I can bet you one thing its not going to change anyones life, like the OP suggested.
If it was such a big deal to him, they would have gone with a phone that offered good/great voice activation. Pre-iphone 4S, was the iphone4's voice activation the best on the market? If not, why didnt the OP switch to the phone that had the best voice recognition.
The funny thing we had the same furore about facetime, it never really took of - much ado about nothing. I am guessing Siri will be the same. In 12 months time, hardly anyone will be using it.
To be fair, even if it was OTT, it does take the biscuit that the very first reply managed to:
a. shoot the OP down in flames.
b. add nothing remotely constructive.
with facetime, was there any furore? some people probably said they thought it was really good, and others shouted them down for being fan bois. i doubt many people use it regularly in place of a phone call, as you'd look like a dick walking around while making a video call. which probably missed the point that you wouldn't really use it to replace normal calls, but it would be good to use in certain situations.
Siri is slightly different insomuch as its use isn't dependent on someone else having particular kit.
i looked at the voice control on the current iPhone, and kinda went meh and never used it again. i haven't seen Siri in action, but presumably the whole point is that it does actually work much better that existing voice recognition, and by all accounts it seems that most people who have used it have been impressed at just how good it is compared to existing voice recognition.
Iain
a. shoot the OP down in flames.
b. add nothing remotely constructive.
with facetime, was there any furore? some people probably said they thought it was really good, and others shouted them down for being fan bois. i doubt many people use it regularly in place of a phone call, as you'd look like a dick walking around while making a video call. which probably missed the point that you wouldn't really use it to replace normal calls, but it would be good to use in certain situations.
Siri is slightly different insomuch as its use isn't dependent on someone else having particular kit.
i looked at the voice control on the current iPhone, and kinda went meh and never used it again. i haven't seen Siri in action, but presumably the whole point is that it does actually work much better that existing voice recognition, and by all accounts it seems that most people who have used it have been impressed at just how good it is compared to existing voice recognition.
Iain
Well again it's another example of what Apple were so good at.. take an existing technology and package it in a way that people enjoy using.
Voice commands have been around for a while but no one ever felt the need to even try them because it was just a chore really. By putting Siri directly into the push of a button, people are walking into Apple stores and talking to a phone for the very first time and leaving impressed by the experience. I stood in my local one and it was fun seeing all these people walk straight to the phones section, pick one up and ask for the weather etc. It was obvious they'd never tried it before but they were having so much fun doing so.
Apple never claimed to have invented voice commands or voice recognition but they may well package it in such a way that it becomes mainstream, people are drawn to try it.. they like it.. and the rest is history. It gets people using the feature for the first time.
Voice commands have been around for a while but no one ever felt the need to even try them because it was just a chore really. By putting Siri directly into the push of a button, people are walking into Apple stores and talking to a phone for the very first time and leaving impressed by the experience. I stood in my local one and it was fun seeing all these people walk straight to the phones section, pick one up and ask for the weather etc. It was obvious they'd never tried it before but they were having so much fun doing so.
Apple never claimed to have invented voice commands or voice recognition but they may well package it in such a way that it becomes mainstream, people are drawn to try it.. they like it.. and the rest is history. It gets people using the feature for the first time.
Originally Posted by paulbrock:
“You'll recognise then, that in terms of voice RECOGNITION, siri is no better than any other offering.”
“You'll recognise then, that in terms of voice RECOGNITION, siri is no better than any other offering.”
It seems to me to be pretty good, but time will tell. However, the real point is that Siri brings two more major dimensions to the field. The first is natural language understanding and the second is the integration with the hardware and native apps. Only Apple are in the position to provide this closely coupled integration - due of course to the walled garden and their control freakery, but it can have its advantages when it comes to users.
Originally Posted by ACU:
“
If it was such a big deal to him, they would have gone with a phone that offered good/great voice activation. Pre-iphone 4S, was the iphone4's voice activation the best on the market? If not, why didnt the OP switch to the phone that had the best voice recognition.
The funny thing we had the same furore about facetime, it never really took of - much ado about nothing. I am guessing Siri will be the same. In 12 months time, hardly anyone will be using it.”
“
If it was such a big deal to him, they would have gone with a phone that offered good/great voice activation. Pre-iphone 4S, was the iphone4's voice activation the best on the market? If not, why didnt the OP switch to the phone that had the best voice recognition.
The funny thing we had the same furore about facetime, it never really took of - much ado about nothing. I am guessing Siri will be the same. In 12 months time, hardly anyone will be using it.”
I did look at other voice activation products but frankly they weren't good enough to be a game changer and make me want to give up other things I like about the iPhone.
As far as FaceTime is concerned, you're preaching to the converted (unconverted ?) - I never thought it would take off, people don't actually like using video links for phone calls, that was obvious to me from day 1 and I think Apple were misguided in their early hype about it. There you are, I've said something critical of Apple - and BTW I think iTunes is a right dog's breakfast, the sooner they throw it away and start again the better, but that's probably a subject for another thread.
Originally Posted by Inspiration:
“Well again it's another example of what Apple were so good at.. take an existing technology and package it in a way that people enjoy using.
Apple never claimed to have invented voice commands or voice recognition but they may well package it in such a way that it becomes mainstream, people are drawn to try it.. they like it.. and the rest is history. It gets people using the feature for the first time.”
“Well again it's another example of what Apple were so good at.. take an existing technology and package it in a way that people enjoy using.
Apple never claimed to have invented voice commands or voice recognition but they may well package it in such a way that it becomes mainstream, people are drawn to try it.. they like it.. and the rest is history. It gets people using the feature for the first time.”
Exactly. Well said. There were music players before the iPod, there were smartphones before the iPhone, there were tablets before the iPad. The reason people buy Apple products is exactly because existing technology is packaged and presented in a very attractive way to users - I'm not talking fashion here, I'm talking UI. Yes, I won't deny fashion/brand plays a large part, but it is not the dominant part.
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“Only Apple are in the position to provide this closely coupled integration - due of course to the walled garden and their control freakery, but it can have its advantages when it comes to users.”
“Only Apple are in the position to provide this closely coupled integration - due of course to the walled garden and their control freakery, but it can have its advantages when it comes to users.”
Well not really, as many 3rd party apps on Android are able to use Google's voice recognition, add their own natural language processing, and link to other apps like Facebook,Twitter and Evernote using those apis along with online services like Maps, Google Search,Calendar(which of course updates the phone calendar) and question answering services (like Wolfram Alpha), as well as tying in onphone services like dialing, messaging, email, music, launch camera app etc.
Like SpeaktoIt have done.
Originally Posted by paulbrock:
“Well not really, as many 3rd party apps on Android are able to use Google's voice recognition, add their own natural language processing, and link to other apps like Facebook,Twitter and Evernote using those apis along with online services like Maps, Google Search,Calendar(which of course updates the phone calendar) and question answering services (like Wolfram Alpha), as well as tying in onphone services like dialing, messaging, email, music, launch camera app etc.
Like SpeaktoIt have done.”
“Well not really, as many 3rd party apps on Android are able to use Google's voice recognition, add their own natural language processing, and link to other apps like Facebook,Twitter and Evernote using those apis along with online services like Maps, Google Search,Calendar(which of course updates the phone calendar) and question answering services (like Wolfram Alpha), as well as tying in onphone services like dialing, messaging, email, music, launch camera app etc.
Like SpeaktoIt have done.”
It's a question of degree. When you control the hardware design, the operating system design, the applications and the voice recognition software, there are far more opportunities to tune and improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the total result. That's why an Apple iPad with a given CPU in it can seem to fly in comparison with a poorly implemented Android tablet with a CPU twice as fast.
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“It's a question of degree. When you control the hardware design, the operating system design, the applications and the voice recognition software, there are far more opportunities to tune and improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the total result.”
“It's a question of degree. When you control the hardware design, the operating system design, the applications and the voice recognition software, there are far more opportunities to tune and improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the total result.”
Oh I agree, its all more easily done if they're all under the same roof. Also (AFAIK) the Apple voice servers are only used for Siri(?) so they can be tuned more to commands given to phones, rather than search terms, or anything else.
But 'more easily' is of course not the same as 'only Apple can do this', the Android modular approach means that any improvements Google make to voice recognition will improve all apps that use it;I understand Siri will eventually be available to developers - is it already? If someone wants to make e.g. NicheService3 compatible with voice actions they just need to make an API call to the Google's voice server.
I do wonder, after all the talk about how Twitter is integrated everywhere in the OS, and Siri is integrated everywhere in the OS, why you can't update your twitter status via Siri?
Originally Posted by iain:
“To be fair, even if it was OTT, it does take the biscuit that the very first reply managed to:
a. shoot the OP down in flames.
b. add nothing remotely constructive.
with facetime, was there any furore? some people probably said they thought it was really good, and others shouted them down for being fan bois. i doubt many people use it regularly in place of a phone call, as you'd look like a dick walking around while making a video call. which probably missed the point that you wouldn't really use it to replace normal calls, but it would be good to use in certain situations.
Siri is slightly different insomuch as its use isn't dependent on someone else having particular kit.
i looked at the voice control on the current iPhone, and kinda went meh and never used it again. i haven't seen Siri in action, but presumably the whole point is that it does actually work much better that existing voice recognition, and by all accounts it seems that most people who have used it have been impressed at just how good it is compared to existing voice recognition.
Iain”
“To be fair, even if it was OTT, it does take the biscuit that the very first reply managed to:
a. shoot the OP down in flames.
b. add nothing remotely constructive.
with facetime, was there any furore? some people probably said they thought it was really good, and others shouted them down for being fan bois. i doubt many people use it regularly in place of a phone call, as you'd look like a dick walking around while making a video call. which probably missed the point that you wouldn't really use it to replace normal calls, but it would be good to use in certain situations.
Siri is slightly different insomuch as its use isn't dependent on someone else having particular kit.
i looked at the voice control on the current iPhone, and kinda went meh and never used it again. i haven't seen Siri in action, but presumably the whole point is that it does actually work much better that existing voice recognition, and by all accounts it seems that most people who have used it have been impressed at just how good it is compared to existing voice recognition.
Iain”
There was quite a bit of furore around facetime. Apple tv ads all mentioned it, people in this forum and other forums were raving about it. 12 odd months on it hardly used. You right you would look like a dick trying to make a video call whilst walking around. Mainly because it only works over a wifi network.
I have never been big on voice control. My android reads text messages, I used this feature a few times - mainly for comedy value. Typed in rude words, and got my phone to read them out...all very amusing for 10 mins. I have never used Siri, it maybe as good as the OP suggests. Even if it was, its hardly life changing, or something to get excited about. Anytime someone suggests voice commands, we all automatically think, it wont work to well, you need to train it to your voice. You have to say things 4 times before it does what you want. By which time you end up doing it by hand. Then you have that awkward conversation, when the voice command has dialled the wrong person, and you quickly hangup. They then ring you back, and you have to explain you dialled their number by mistake. I cant imagine Siri or any voice control software will be capable of working equally well with a geordie or scouse accent for example.
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“I did look at other voice activation products but frankly they weren't good enough to be a game changer and make me want to give up other things I like about the iPhone.
As far as FaceTime is concerned, you're preaching to the converted (unconverted ?) - I never thought it would take off, people don't actually like using video links for phone calls, that was obvious to me from day 1 and I think Apple were misguided in their early hype about it. There you are, I've said something critical of Apple - and BTW I think iTunes is a right dog's breakfast, the sooner they throw it away and start again the better, but that's probably a subject for another thread.”
“I did look at other voice activation products but frankly they weren't good enough to be a game changer and make me want to give up other things I like about the iPhone.
As far as FaceTime is concerned, you're preaching to the converted (unconverted ?) - I never thought it would take off, people don't actually like using video links for phone calls, that was obvious to me from day 1 and I think Apple were misguided in their early hype about it. There you are, I've said something critical of Apple - and BTW I think iTunes is a right dog's breakfast, the sooner they throw it away and start again the better, but that's probably a subject for another thread.”
If you looked at other products, then fair enough. Although for me, voice command is not a game changer. To be honest it wouldnt bother me if it wasnt possible at all. If its something you think is a game changer for you, then great. Apple have provided you with another reason to stick with them.
I wasnt preaching about facetime, just giving an example. In 12 months time Siri, will be a little used feature, much like facetime.
Originally Posted by ACU:
“ Anytime someone suggests voice commands, we all automatically think, it wont work to well, you need to train it to your voice. You have to say things 4 times before it does what you want.”
“ Anytime someone suggests voice commands, we all automatically think, it wont work to well, you need to train it to your voice. You have to say things 4 times before it does what you want.”
I'm not even sure the mobile implementations (Google/Apple) allow much training. Perhaps on the server side, it keeps track of your commands and then has some sort of 'personal profile' it applies to future requests. My thinking is that, certainly for Google's Voice Search, it tracks repeated commands, assumes it got it wrong last time and the algorithm is refined afterwards.
Thoughts, tdenson? You're probably the only one here that's had a good look under the hood on voice recognition.
Quote:
“I cant imagine Siri or any voice control software will be capable of working equally well with a geordie or scouse accent for example.”
“I cant imagine Siri or any voice control software will be capable of working equally well with a geordie or scouse accent for example.”
Certainly problems have been reported with thick accents, or people with foreign accents, speaking English as a 2nd language. Still needs refining for some.
Originally Posted by paulbrock:
“Well not really, as many 3rd party apps on Android are able to use Google's voice recognition, add their own natural language processing, and link to other apps like Facebook,Twitter and Evernote using those apis along with online services like Maps, Google Search,Calendar(which of course updates the phone calendar) and question answering services (like Wolfram Alpha), as well as tying in onphone services like dialing, messaging, email, music, launch camera app etc.
Like SpeaktoIt have done.”
“Well not really, as many 3rd party apps on Android are able to use Google's voice recognition, add their own natural language processing, and link to other apps like Facebook,Twitter and Evernote using those apis along with online services like Maps, Google Search,Calendar(which of course updates the phone calendar) and question answering services (like Wolfram Alpha), as well as tying in onphone services like dialing, messaging, email, music, launch camera app etc.
Like SpeaktoIt have done.”
IIts not just Android products that can use the google voice recognition, there's also an app for Symbian that uses the service.
Originally Posted by clonmult:
“IIts not just Android products that can use the google voice recognition, there's also an app for Symbian that uses the service.”
“IIts not just Android products that can use the google voice recognition, there's also an app for Symbian that uses the service.”
ah thats interesting didn't know that, but guess it makes sense. In theory I guess iOS apps should be able to use Google's Voice Recognition as well then...
Originally Posted by ACU:
“
I wasnt preaching about facetime, just giving an example. In 12 months time Siri, will be a little used feature, much like facetime.”
“
I wasnt preaching about facetime, just giving an example. In 12 months time Siri, will be a little used feature, much like facetime.”
Sorry, I wasn't accusing you of preaching, just meant that I agree with you.
Originally Posted by paulbrock:
“Thoughts, tdenson? You're probably the only one here that's had a good look under the hood on voice recognition.”
“Thoughts, tdenson? You're probably the only one here that's had a good look under the hood on voice recognition.”
TBH I've not had any technical involvement for over a decade so am out of touch
There is an interesting point that has been made in this thread about the embarrassment of using voice control in public. I think this will actually be a major inhibitor to its adoption. There was a time when it was just the same with using a mobile to make phone calls.
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“Exactly. Well said. There were music players before the iPod, there were smartphones before the iPhone, there were tablets before the iPad. The reason people buy Apple products is exactly because existing technology is packaged and presented in a very attractive way to users - I'm not talking fashion here, I'm talking UI. Yes, I won't deny fashion/brand plays a large part, but it is not the dominant part.”
“Exactly. Well said. There were music players before the iPod, there were smartphones before the iPhone, there were tablets before the iPad. The reason people buy Apple products is exactly because existing technology is packaged and presented in a very attractive way to users - I'm not talking fashion here, I'm talking UI. Yes, I won't deny fashion/brand plays a large part, but it is not the dominant part.”
this is exactly it. to paraphrase an old chinese proverb:
'its all about the UI, dummy!'
i remember looking at things like the Sony Clie, or the iPaq, and thinking they should be good, but the Clie in particular just wasn't.
people can say whatever they like about the iPhone, but with it Apple nailed the UI.
there's no point ramming something with the highest spec - if people aren't comfortable with the UI, they're not gonna buy it.
the reason comes back to the fact that you really can't polish a turd.
the main reason the iPhone has done so well isn't the brilliant marketing (at least not entirely), but is the fantastic UI.
Iain
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