[iain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BinaryDad

I'd say iOS is pretty poor. Have you seen iOS 5 running on a 1st gen iPad? It;s pretty shocking!

what would you say were the worst three things about it?

Iain

[nanscombe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

what would you say were the worst three things about it?

Iain

It's IOS.
It's on an iPad
It's made by Apple.

[BinaryDad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

what would you say were the worst three things about it?

Iain

It's pretty unresponsive. The transitions are painfully choppy, and scrolling is not really as smooth as it has been. It's not exactly a massive show stopper, but compared to previous versions, it feels quite bad.

I'm not alone in this either. My boss has also complained that his first gen iPad just doesn't feel the same.

The thing is, it's not as if the updates have added anything that is massively CPU/GPU hungry. I think it has more to do with the underlying Cocoa framework and the way in which objective-c calls methods, with all the background stuff that's been added (which I might add, has been in Android for donkey's).

Oh well...I'll probably cough up for an Android based tablet next, and just use the iPad for development when I can be bothered to pay the 100 euros (or there abouts) to be allowed to run my code on the actual device.

[wilt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

kind of misses the point though - if people happen to prefer iOS, why shouldn't they buy an iPhone?

the point is still that most people likely buy an iOS device because they like iOS, not because they are mindless idiots motivated only by fashion.

hypothetically speaking, what do you suppose people who liked Android would do if there were only two (smart)phones - the iPhone and the Nexus?

Iain

I think to assume that most of the general populace know what OS is running on their phone is deeply flawed.

People look at three things - Does it look nice? Do any of their friends have it? Does it run their favourite app?

Hypothetically speaking, if there was only one Android phone then the platform would have failed. Only Apple has the ability to do what they have done thanks to the mindshare built up by the iPod.

We've seen what happens when somebody else tries to do the sole manufacturer thing with Palm. Which is really unfortunate because WebOS is an awesome OS.

[swordman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

i didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but am speaking more generally about that sort of guff that gets bandied about.

apparently because i own an iPhone, its because i'm a mindless idiot only motivated by fashion.



that kind of misses the point though - if people happen to prefer iOS, why shouldn't they buy an iPhone?

the point is still that most people likely buy an iOS device because they like iOS, not because they are mindless idiots motivated only by fashion.

hypothetically speaking, what do you suppose people who liked Android would do if there were only two (smart)phones - the iPhone and the Nexus?

Iain

Do you actually believe the majority of people but an iPhone because it has ios? Really? Or is it simply that it is an iPhone I think we both know the truth here

[Knighton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilt

As important as Steve Jobs was to the tech industry, this highlights one of his biggest flaws.

His biggest flaw was the fact he was an arrogant old tosser.

[tghe-retford]

Considering that Apple was the underdog who was threatened with oblivion from Microsoft's strong and monopolistic position within the computing industry, I find it massively hypocritical that Steve Jobs wanted the shoe on the other foot and to wipe out a competitior to form a monopoly and reduce consumer choice, effectively to do what Microsoft wanted to do to them.

I hope the competition authorities in the US and the EU are paying attention to this, Microsoft were up in front of both for such practices.

[Roush]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tghe-retford

Considering that Apple was the underdog who was threatened with oblivion from Microsoft's strong and monopolistic position within the computing industry, I find it massively hypocritical that Steve Jobs wanted the shoe on the other foot and to wipe out a competitior to form a monopoly and reduce consumer choice, effectively to do what Microsoft wanted to do to them.

I hope the competition authorities in the US and the EU are paying attention to this, Microsoft were up in front of both for such practices.

The anti-trust investigations (and subsequent actions) against Microsoft had nothing to do with patent enforcement and alleged design copying.

It's impossible for Apple to be guilty of the same things Microsoft were because they do not supply their products in the same way as Microsoft did / do.

Your comment suggests you don't actually understand anything about the Microsoft anti-trust cases or anything about the Apple vs. Android situation.

The two scenarios are not comparable.

[IvanIV]

I hope he did not say "over my dead body".

[alanwarwic]

Apple's patent suite was marketed as loads of insubstantial emotions such as 'copying the thinness', square and similar icons' and 'black background' with one or two real patents.

Yet the one they won with is the use of the capacitive screen.
They seem to have patented the fact that capacitive properties allow for dual pressing like we have with real keyboards.

Whilst they went after Samsung, to me it seems to mean that any new non Apple smartphone can be banned, at least where said judgement was made.

The success trait of Jobs was certainly that he always liked to win.

[Dai13371]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

i didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but am speaking more generally about that sort of guff that gets bandied about.

apparently because i own an iPhone, its because i'm a mindless idiot only motivated by fashion.



that kind of misses the point though - if people happen to prefer iOS, why shouldn't they buy an iPhone?

the point is still that most people likely buy an iOS device because they like iOS, not because they are mindless idiots motivated only by fashion.

hypothetically speaking, what do you suppose people who liked Android would do if there were only two (smart)phones - the iPhone and the Nexus?

Iain

And how many of the iPhone faithful are familiar with the alternatives on offer I wonder. Those dorks on tv adverts like weight watchers who say "I am so addicted to my iPhone" could easily say, "I am so addicted to my Galaxy S" if they bothered to give it a go. It is unfair to say that all apple consumers are akin to those who rush out to get the latest handbags or shoes just because they happen to be in vogue, but it certainly is not unthinkable to say that the Apple iPhone is seen as transcending just being a useful tool and is regarded as a fashion accessory (as was the Blackberry once upon a time) amongst the young upwardly mobile, no pun intended. That symbol of an apple with a bite out of it is not merely a logo, it is iconic, like the BMW propeller. How many can we say are attracted to the product purely because of the pull of the logo?

[Everything Goes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

i didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but am speaking more generally about that sort of guff that gets bandied about.

apparently because i own an iPhone, its because i'm a mindless idiot only motivated by fashion.




Iain

Not everyone buys an iPhone because it is a fashion accessory. Its is however their core market demographic.

[iain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilt

I think to assume that most of the general populace know what OS is running on their phone is deeply flawed.

People look at three things - Does it look nice? Do any of their friends have it? Does it run their favourite app?

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordman

Do you actually believe the majority of people but an iPhone because it has ios? Really? Or is it simply that it is an iPhone I think we both know the truth here

i think you're taking me a bit too literally there.

people don't need to know who Scott Forstall is, or now that the OS is called iOS, or even know that a phone uses a thing called an OS.

all they need to know is does it look and feel good to use.

and if they have even a quick look and decide that it does, then that's essentially them *liking* iOS, even if they don't know its called iOS.

i know people like to think iPhones have been as successful as they have been *just* because they're made by Apple, but i'd bet my house its a lot more to do with people finding the UI as easy to use and intuitive as it is.

if it hadn't been, i'd bet my second house that the iPhone wouldn't have been anywhere near as successful.

Iain

[goomba]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tghe-retford

Considering that Apple was the underdog who was threatened with oblivion from Microsoft's strong and monopolistic position within the computing industry, I find it massively hypocritical that Steve Jobs wanted the shoe on the other foot and to wipe out a competitior to form a monopoly and reduce consumer choice, effectively to do what Microsoft wanted to do to them.

I think that is exactly why he was being so strong on Android. He watched Apple very nearly get destroyed by the competition from Microsoft and he could see history starting to repeat.

[Dai13371]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

Not everyone buys an iPhone because it is a fashion accessory. Its is however their core market demographic.

To use another motoring analogy, the pull of BMW became so great that once, bog standard 3 series BMWs became vastly more popular than the Ford Mondeo, a car where most goodies were not listed as optional extras and was seen as totally class leading. Draw of the logo again?

[chopoff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dai13371

To use another motoring analogy, the pull of BMW became so great that once, bog standard 3 series BMWs became vastly more popular than the Ford Mondeo, a car where most goodies were not listed as optional extras and was seen as totally class leading. Draw of the logo again?

Draw of the logo.

Take two jumpers. One is neon yellow. One is a 'designer' label that makes you look suave.

Both of the jumpers do the same job. They both keep you equally warm.

Most people would pick the more expensive designer jumper, as they think it looks better.

Now take the iPhone and another phone. Both phones perform the same functions, the iPhone doesn't outperform the other phone. But people buy the iPhone. Why? Same reason as above. They think it looks better, even though it is a grossly over-priced product.

So that is why people say people buying the iPhone are 'fashion victims'. They could buy a cheaper phone that out-performs the iPhone. But they don't.

[psionic]

The incestious relationship between Apple and Google was never destined to last. http://gawker.com/5328875/google-ceo...-board-finally

[iain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chopoff

Draw of the logo.

Take two jumpers. One is neon yellow. One is a 'designer' label that makes you look suave.

Both of the jumpers do the same job. They both keep you equally warm.

Most people would pick the more expensive designer jumper, as they think it looks better.

Now take the iPhone and another phone. Both phones perform the same functions, the iPhone doesn't outperform the other phone. But people buy the iPhone. Why? Same reason as above. They think it looks better, even though it is a grossly over-priced product.

So that is why people say people buying the iPhone are 'fashion victims'. They could buy a cheaper phone that out-performs the iPhone. But they don't.

except that still misses the point that the iPhone came with a UI of unprecedented easy of use and intuitiveness.

your jumper analogy doesn't quite work, because arguably the iPhone (certainly when first released, if less so now) did do things better / more intuitively / easier than other phones on the market.

i don't know why people can't get their head around the idea that for many people that's far more desirable than having, for example, a marginally faster processor.

Iain

[nanscombe]

So is that two ready to wear jumpers?

Or one ready made jumper against several balls of wool and a knitting pattern?

I've done a little bit of knitting in the past but I'd still go for the ready made one.

[Dai13371]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

except that still misses the point that the iPhone came with a UI of unprecedented easy of use and intuitiveness.

your jumper analogy doesn't quite work, because arguably the iPhone (certainly when first released, if less so now) did do things better / more intuitively / easier than other phones on the market.

i don't know why people can't get their head around the idea that for many people that's far more desirable than having, for example, a marginally faster processor.

Iain

Which doesn't answer the question of whether those who chose apple did so because of an informed choice. Did they really try Android or RIM or Symbian and thought nope, not for me or did they subscribe to the hype that iOS is smoother, slicker and better, which of course begs the question, did Apple knowingly make the OS like that by design to reel in and shore those who were attracted to the logo. Again it is the keep it simple stupid philosophy at play.

[iain]

hmmm - did Apple knowingly make the OS as easy to use and intuitive as a rouse to trick people into buying their phones?

is that a trick question?

i'm going to assume a few things here:

1. there were phones on the market before the iPhone came out.

2. people were familiar with current phones and their UIs.

3. people looked at the iPhone and decided they liked its UI compared to other UIs currently on the market.

4. that was (and remains) a bigger part of people's decisions to buy an iPhone than the logo.

given that Android has done a good job of catching up on the UI front, and sales have increased accordingly, then that kind of shows its about the UI and function of a phone, way more than any logo.

i'm not sure why you seem to be suggesting that there's anything wrong with a philosophy of 'keep it simple'.

why would you want to make something more complicated than it needs to be?

that was the remit with the iPod - that the user should be able to do / access everything within three clicks, or they can't be arsed, which led to the click wheel idea.

Iain

[wilt]

I think the 'more intuitive' card is being way overplayed for iOS here.

If I want to add a customer ringtone without paying for one, what do I need to do? Not so simple.

If I want to change the notification settings on an app, why do I need to exit said app, then trawl through the settings? Why can't I change these settings from in the app itself? The settings screen itself is a mess - several different lists that are separated for some reason, but with no headings to actually tell me why.

There are dozens of other examples of where iOS doesn't make sense at all to me, which as an iOS user you will dismiss, but as a user coming from other platforms (both Android and WebOS) they just do not make sense. And it's not like I'm basing on using iOS for 5 mins every so often, I've owned an iPod Touch for years so I should be used to it by now.

[swordman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

hmmm - did Apple knowingly make the OS as easy to use and intuitive as a rouse to trick people into buying their phones?

is that a trick question?

i'm going to assume a few things here:

1. there were phones on the market before the iPhone came out.

2. people were familiar with current phones and their UIs.

3. people looked at the iPhone and decided they liked its UI compared to other UIs currently on the market.

4. that was (and remains) a bigger part of people's decisions to buy an iPhone than the logo.

given that Android has done a good job of catching up on the UI front, and sales have increased accordingly, then that kind of shows its about the UI and function of a phone, way more than any logo.

i'm not sure why you seem to be suggesting that there's anything wrong with a philosophy of 'keep it simple'.

why would you want to make something more complicated than it needs to be?

that was the remit with the iPod - that the user should be able to do / access everything within three clicks, or they can't be arsed, which led to the click wheel idea.

Iain

if they had looked at the UI and considered it and decided on apple how does that explain the queues for any new apple product sometimes days before release? thye have not had time to consider this product in any detail they simply have to have this new apple product regardless.

[chopoff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

except that still misses the point that the iPhone came with a UI of unprecedented easy of use and intuitiveness.

your jumper analogy doesn't quite work, because arguably the iPhone (certainly when first released, if less so now) did do things better / more intuitively / easier than other phones on the market.

i don't know why people can't get their head around the idea that for many people that's far more desirable than having, for example, a marginally faster processor.

Iain

That would be true if UI was not design. But it is. So I don't see how the jumper analogy falls down on how the user interface looks and works.

Design is not just how it looks on the outside.

I don't see how an iPhone is so drastically better in its intuitive-ness. How can you even measure this?

Having used both I did not think wow this Android is so complex and wow this iPhone is so simple.

They both were super-easy to navigate, find what I want, and to perform tasks.

Explain to me how the following is so difficult to do compared to other phones:
- Browsing the web, tap the Browser icon. I'm browsing. Alternatively tap the Google search speech icon, tell it what I want to look for, I'm in.

- Taking a photo, tap an icon, tap the shoot icon. I'm done.

- Making a call, tap the big phone icon, use the 'fat-fingers' buttons to type in the number, or tap an easily-browsable contacts list. My call starts.

At no point was I asked to complete The Times crossword to perform any day-to-day tasks.

The home screen also allows me to see things at a glance without having to go into individual applications.

So explain to my how the iPhone is so superior in these regards.

[Zack06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chopoff

The home screen also allows me to see things at a glance without having to go into individual applications.

So explain to my how the iPhone is so superior in these regards.

Widgets don't exist in iOS which is what makes the homescreen experience so disgusting and shambolic. They force the user to open up all these applications and waste processor cycles just to view simple things like the weather forecast or the latest stocks or the news headlines...you might as well just use a feature phone.

Android and Windows Phone are FAR superior in this respect as the user doesn't ever need to open an application to view what's important to them.

With Android most of the applications have a widget option so you hardly even need to open them if you wish...and you can group widgets per homescreen and have all your relevant information available at a glance...

With iPhone you have to go everywhere just to get simple bits of information, its one big mess. :sleep: