As far as Craig was concerned, there was nothing wrong with the choreography. Does that not count?
Is Aliona in the doghouse again ?
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Originally Posted by LittleNothing:
“I like Aliona's choreography so far this year. Her Cha Cha was a proper Cha cha cha and was one of the best routines on the night, as was the foxtrot.
The Jive may not have been full of Jive steps but it was very clever of Aliona.
As a simpler routine it gave Harry the opportunity to relax and master what he was give and dance as Aliona's equal (for me he looked like he could easily have been the pro last week) it gave him an enormous confidence boost, made him believe he could be a dancer and gave him a chance to work on the one area of his dance that really needed work. The performance.
and we saw the fruits of that in tonight's beautifully choreographed routine. Harry wouldn't have been able to get into that performance and the tenderness that it require had Aliona not taken the calculated risk she did last week.
You can't please all the judges all of the time, Craig loved it Len didn't. If you please one you piss one off.”
“I like Aliona's choreography so far this year. Her Cha Cha was a proper Cha cha cha and was one of the best routines on the night, as was the foxtrot.
The Jive may not have been full of Jive steps but it was very clever of Aliona.
As a simpler routine it gave Harry the opportunity to relax and master what he was give and dance as Aliona's equal (for me he looked like he could easily have been the pro last week) it gave him an enormous confidence boost, made him believe he could be a dancer and gave him a chance to work on the one area of his dance that really needed work. The performance.
and we saw the fruits of that in tonight's beautifully choreographed routine. Harry wouldn't have been able to get into that performance and the tenderness that it require had Aliona not taken the calculated risk she did last week.
You can't please all the judges all of the time, Craig loved it Len didn't. If you please one you piss one off.”
Agreed Craig and Len look for different things but they still gave the same score... Craig looks at performance a bit more and Len looks at technique... note his it would have been a 10 speech, because, as I concede, Aliona will get your footwork spotless! But, her choreography let him down badly tonight! Like Craig said on ITT about Brendan and Lulu's lift, there are any number of ways to get the same effect. Like Lulu could have just kept one foot on the ground and got swung around she could have gotten 2 or 3 more marks of Craig alone, likewise Aliona and Harry could have gotten that sweet bit of story telling still in hold swaying around the dancefloor, not breaking hold and messing about on the steps...
Originally Posted by fatskia:
“As far as Craig was concerned, there was nothing wrong with the choreography. Does that not count?”
“As far as Craig was concerned, there was nothing wrong with the choreography. Does that not count?”
apparently not
What's a girl to do? damned if you do damned if you don't
It was beautiful piece of story telling beautifully danced imo
Originally Posted by Damahepa:
“Agreed Craig and Len look for different things but they still gave the same score... Craig looks at performance a bit more and Len looks at technique... note his it would have been a 10 speech, because, as I concede, Aliona will get your footwork spotless! But, her choreography let him down badly tonight! Like Craig said on ITT about Brendan and Lulu's lift, there are any number of ways to get the same effect. Like Lulu could have just kept one foot on the ground and got swung around she could have gotten 2 or 3 more marks of Craig alone, likewise Aliona and Harry could have gotten that sweet bit of story telling still in hold swaying around the dancefloor, not breaking hold and messing about on the steps...”
“Agreed Craig and Len look for different things but they still gave the same score... Craig looks at performance a bit more and Len looks at technique... note his it would have been a 10 speech, because, as I concede, Aliona will get your footwork spotless! But, her choreography let him down badly tonight! Like Craig said on ITT about Brendan and Lulu's lift, there are any number of ways to get the same effect. Like Lulu could have just kept one foot on the ground and got swung around she could have gotten 2 or 3 more marks of Craig alone, likewise Aliona and Harry could have gotten that sweet bit of story telling still in hold swaying around the dancefloor, not breaking hold and messing about on the steps...”
She got Harry a 10. There are more judges than just Len.
Craig loved it as did Bruno. So If she had done that exact routine and Harry had been a little bit more polished and finished his lines on the shadowing steps that Bruno picked up on it would have been 3 10's.
How on earth is that Aliona's choreography letting him down?
She is improving as a choreographer and might get it right in time for the final. At the moment, it seems a Chelsee, Harry and Jason final, with Jason third, Chelsee runner-up, Harry winner. Would anyone put money on that ?
Originally Posted by fatskia:
“As far as Craig was concerned, there was nothing wrong with the choreography. Does that not count?”
“As far as Craig was concerned, there was nothing wrong with the choreography. Does that not count?”
apparently not!!!
Its strange how most people are focusing on Lens opinion when there are 3 other judges as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0logPYgZQsM
a not very high quality version is already up.
When Craig says
"I really loved the whispering and the whole story telling through out I thought it was absolutely ....(cheering from cround drowned him out but I think it was) perfect"
Harry gives Aliona a supportive rub on the arm says "see?" and is beaming all through the judges comments. I don't think Harry is phased by Len's comments at all, he is smarter than people are giving him credit for. He wont be undermining Aliona any time soon.
a not very high quality version is already up.
When Craig says
"I really loved the whispering and the whole story telling through out I thought it was absolutely ....(cheering from cround drowned him out but I think it was) perfect"
Harry gives Aliona a supportive rub on the arm says "see?" and is beaming all through the judges comments. I don't think Harry is phased by Len's comments at all, he is smarter than people are giving him credit for. He wont be undermining Aliona any time soon.
Originally Posted by LittleNothing:
“She got Harry a 10. There are more judges than just Len.
Craig loved it as did Bruno. So If she had done that exact routine and Harry had been a little bit more polished and finished his lines on the shadowing steps that Bruno picked up on it would have been 3 10's.
How on earth is that Aliona's choreography letting him down?”
“She got Harry a 10. There are more judges than just Len.
Craig loved it as did Bruno. So If she had done that exact routine and Harry had been a little bit more polished and finished his lines on the shadowing steps that Bruno picked up on it would have been 3 10's.
How on earth is that Aliona's choreography letting him down?
”
A 10 from Alesha, that's like getting a degree in general studies from the University of Slough, compared to the Degree of Medicine, Oxbridge level of Craig Len and Bruno.
In all seriousness though, you can please all the judges, look at Matt and Flavia's Waltz? That got 40/40 without dancing on the stairs!
Originally Posted by Damahepa:
“A 10 from Alesha, that's like getting a degree in general studies from the University of Slough, compared to the Oxbridge level of Craig Len and Bruno.
In all seriousness though, you can please all the judges, look at Matt and Flavia's Waltz? That got 40/40 without dancing on the stairs!”
“A 10 from Alesha, that's like getting a degree in general studies from the University of Slough, compared to the Oxbridge level of Craig Len and Bruno.
In all seriousness though, you can please all the judges, look at Matt and Flavia's Waltz? That got 40/40 without dancing on the stairs!”
an undeserved 40 imo they were out waltzed that year by both Alesha and Gethin but I digress...
yes but you ignore my other more important point Bruno and Craig both loved the routine!!!!
Craig especially so. So Aliona's choreography impressed 2 out of the 3 dance judges. Both of whom are funnily enough Choreographers to trade.
So why is she being crucified for one judges opinion? or as you distastefully put it needing her attitude "beaten out of her"?
Actually when Craig said to Len he was wrong, Alesha very clearly nodded her agreement, so maybe she didn't have a big issue over the whisper at all and 3 out of 4 judges liked the routine and didn't have a big issue over the few seconds on the stairs.
Originally Posted by LittleNothing:
“an undeserved 40 imo they were out waltzed that year by both Alesha and Gethin but I digress...
yes but you ignore my other more important point Bruno and Craig both loved the routine!!!!
Craig especially so. So Aliona's choreography impressed 2 out of the 3 dance judges. Both of whom are funnily enough Choreographers to trade.
So why is she being crucified for one judges opinion? or as you distastefully put it needing her attitude "beaten out of her"?”
“an undeserved 40 imo they were out waltzed that year by both Alesha and Gethin but I digress...
yes but you ignore my other more important point Bruno and Craig both loved the routine!!!!
Craig especially so. So Aliona's choreography impressed 2 out of the 3 dance judges. Both of whom are funnily enough Choreographers to trade.
So why is she being crucified for one judges opinion? or as you distastefully put it needing her attitude "beaten out of her"?”
Well she does! Her attitude is disgraceful! You teach children to behave better for crying out loud! If you treated a parent or teacher like she behaves, you either wouldn't be sitting down for a week, or wouldn't be seeing the outside world for all the detentions respectively.
And this isn't one dance where Len and Alesha haven't liked the choreography (Alesha said she was ignoring the choreography in spite of her 10) it's repeatedly! I admit it's not as shocking as the Salsa with Matt last year and that unnecessary grinding; or the all too frequent backflips etc; but it's still trying to be original and quirky, when we just want the dance to be beautifully aesthetic, as it was, and to be technically sound, which, again, it was! Harry not getting 40/40 was not his fault (Yes Craig would probably have picked up something pedantic, and Bruno seemed to see his posture going when noone else did (i'll have to rewatch to see that one!)) but Aliona stepping in and trying to put her own twist on the Waltz, which is a classic institutionalised dance for a reason! It doesn't need her quasi-revolutionary dance style stance imprinted on it!
Originally Posted by olivej:
“apparently not!!!
Its strange how most people are focusing on Lens opinion when there are 3 other judges as well”
“apparently not!!!
Its strange how most people are focusing on Lens opinion when there are 3 other judges as well”
It probably has something to do with it being perfectly obvious that on this occasion Len is correct. A waltz should be danced in ballroom hold throughout. Breaking hold is as much a breach of the rules as an illegal lift. Personally I would have given Harry a 7 but then I didn't think it was a 10 in the first place because although it might have been very precise it didn't have the amount of movement across the floor that I would expect in a 10 scoring waltz routine.
Oh; and also, even if Matt and Flavia's waltz wasn't as good as Alesha's or Gethin's, did either of them put any stunts or gimmicks in? No! So even if they were more deserving of 40/40, it wasn't due to Matt or Camilla's choreography being more like Aliona's, and Flavia's less so!
Originally Posted by fatskia:
“Actually when Craig said to Len he was wrong, Alesha very clearly nodded her agreement, so maybe she didn't have a big issue over the whisper at all and 3 out of 4 judges liked the routine and didn't have a big issue over the few seconds on the stairs.”
“Actually when Craig said to Len he was wrong, Alesha very clearly nodded her agreement, so maybe she didn't have a big issue over the whisper at all and 3 out of 4 judges liked the routine and didn't have a big issue over the few seconds on the stairs.”
Alesha was probably disagreeing with Len's stance and vehement opposition to the break of hold as opposed to her liking it. Saying she wasn't going to mark down the choreography because it wasn't of Harry's doing isn't exactly singing praises for Aliona's choreography, it just seems like excluding Harry from blame!
Originally Posted by ianswaiting:
“It probably has something to do with it being perfectly obvious that on this occasion Len is correct. A waltz should be danced in ballroom hold throughout. Breaking hold is as much a breach of the rules as an illegal lift. Personally I would have given Harry a 7 but then I didn't think it was a 10 in the first place because although it might have been very precise it didn't have the amount of movement across the floor that I would expect in a 10 scoring waltz routine.”
“It probably has something to do with it being perfectly obvious that on this occasion Len is correct. A waltz should be danced in ballroom hold throughout. Breaking hold is as much a breach of the rules as an illegal lift. Personally I would have given Harry a 7 but then I didn't think it was a 10 in the first place because although it might have been very precise it didn't have the amount of movement across the floor that I would expect in a 10 scoring waltz routine.”
I remember them saying that they were changing the rules last year and you were allowed to break hold in the dance. Look at how many break holds there are in Artem's AS from last year.
Considering the choreography has changed since the last series in that they have a break in hold in the middle of the dance, I actually don't mind Harry's waltz. I agree, if he kept in hold throughout it would probably deserve the ten (or tens!), but I don't think it deserves ten from Alesha.
I normally pan Aliona's choreography, but I actually don't mind her interpretation because at least there WAS proper waltz steps in it and from those real waltz steps, Harry did well. Not perfect as as ten, but close.
I normally pan Aliona's choreography, but I actually don't mind her interpretation because at least there WAS proper waltz steps in it and from those real waltz steps, Harry did well. Not perfect as as ten, but close.
If Aliona had put the stairs bit in at the beginning it would have been better. Harry's a very good dancer but it's like Matt Baker all over again with her strange choreography
I'm not bothered by the scores. If Len wants to give Harry the same score as Anita and Robbie, that's up to Len.
They dont go back into hold, so it could be that the shadowing is taken as a long finish and since they went pretty much straight into hold at the start, and shadowing is something often seen in Waltzes, its a 'question of interpretation' as Bruno said.
They dont go back into hold, so it could be that the shadowing is taken as a long finish and since they went pretty much straight into hold at the start, and shadowing is something often seen in Waltzes, its a 'question of interpretation' as Bruno said.
Originally Posted by fatskia:
“I remember them saying that they were changing the rules last year and you were allowed to break hold in the dance. Look at how many break holds there are in Artem's AS from last year.”
“I remember them saying that they were changing the rules last year and you were allowed to break hold in the dance. Look at how many break holds there are in Artem's AS from last year.”
But if I remember correctly wasn't it because he didn't understand what an AS was and didn't he and Kara get penalised because he based it on the wrong dance? Was there a big hoohaa about how it should have been foxtrot and he did something else?
Originally Posted by LittleNothing:
“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0logPYgZQsM
a not very high quality version is already up.
When Craig says
"I really loved the whispering and the whole story telling through out I thought it was absolutely ....(cheering from cround drowned him out but I think it was) perfect"
Harry gives Aliona a supportive rub on the arm says "see?" and is beaming all through the judges comments. I don't think Harry is phased by Len's comments at all, he is smarter than people are giving him credit for. He wont be undermining Aliona any time soon.
”
“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0logPYgZQsM
a not very high quality version is already up.
When Craig says
"I really loved the whispering and the whole story telling through out I thought it was absolutely ....(cheering from cround drowned him out but I think it was) perfect"
Harry gives Aliona a supportive rub on the arm says "see?" and is beaming all through the judges comments. I don't think Harry is phased by Len's comments at all, he is smarter than people are giving him credit for. He wont be undermining Aliona any time soon.
”
He did try to shut Aliona up (and succeeded in doing so) when she wanted to answer Len back.
Originally Posted by Julie J:
“If Aliona had put the stairs bit in at the beginning it would have been better. Harry's a very good dancer but it's like Matt Baker all over again with her strange choreography”
“If Aliona had put the stairs bit in at the beginning it would have been better. Harry's a very good dancer but it's like Matt Baker all over again with her strange choreography”
I assume the reason it was at that point in the song was that the lyrics were talking about a kiss on a mountaintop and there was an element of 'come away with me' about it too.
Originally Posted by SCD-Observer:
“He did try to shut Aliona up (and succeeded in doing so) when she wanted to answer Len back.”
“He did try to shut Aliona up (and succeeded in doing so) when she wanted to answer Len back.”
Good move by Harry - he's a smart boy.
There's no point in Aliona trying to explain the choreography to Len - its just not the way he would do it.
Originally Posted by fatskia:
“I assume the reason it was at that point in the song was that the lyrics were talking about a kiss on a mountaintop and there was an element of 'come away with me' about it too.”
“I assume the reason it was at that point in the song was that the lyrics were talking about a kiss on a mountaintop and there was an element of 'come away with me' about it too.”
You know I am very critical of Aliona's choreography, but this time I think she did put in enough waltz steps in it to be called a proper waltz. I liked that 'come away with me' bit at the stairs, but I don't think that dance, good as it was, deserved a ten. Eights and nines yes, but not ten.
Originally Posted by Alli-F:
“But if I remember correctly wasn't it because he didn't understand what an AS was and didn't he and Kara get penalised because he based it on the wrong dance? Was there a big hoohaa about how it should have been foxtrot and he did something else?”
“But if I remember correctly wasn't it because he didn't understand what an AS was and didn't he and Kara get penalised because he based it on the wrong dance? Was there a big hoohaa about how it should have been foxtrot and he did something else?
”
It seemed to be based on a Paso instead of a traditional Foxtrot for slow, or Quickstep for fast American Smooth. Len didn't like it was because the American Smooth allows for 40% of the dance to be out of hold, but Kara was in hold for the whole of 3 seconds...
Originally Posted by fatskia:
“Good move by Harry - he's a smart boy.
There's no point in Aliona trying to explain the choreography to Len - its just not the way he would do it.”
“Good move by Harry - he's a smart boy.
There's no point in Aliona trying to explain the choreography to Len - its just not the way he would do it.”
I can't remember if it was Len or Bruno who said that if you have to explain choreography then it hasn't worked! I guess that's why Russell and Flavia were so happy about Bruno understanding their Tango choreography!
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