She was 'in hold' for 3 seconds, but it wasn't even ballroom hold. So strictly speaking she wasn't 'in ballroom hold' for even one nanosecond. I thought it was a beautiful dance, but because it contained absolutely no in-hold moment, didn't deserve any ten(s).

As I remember it, Len complained it wasn't an AS because you are supposed to be in hold for 40% of the dance and he claimed they were never in hold - which wasn't quite true. So Len gave them 6 on the basis 40% of the dance was missing. He did say I'm assuming it was supposed to be based on a Foxtrot?

It was not in ballroom hold (not just 'in hold', they were in loose hold, but not proper ballroom, not even for a nanosecond), so Len was right to deduct heavily in that dance. I thought he gave seven, not six?

I think that was Len last year with one of Aliona and Math's dances, the one which was set against a city background (which I loved, btw).

I think the thing is though the American Smooth isn't part of the traditional 10 dance, so is a lot more open to different interpretations. It's supposed to be about show, pomp and circumstance, and being transported to Hollywood! If Aliona is going to try impose herself, she should do it with American Smooth, which she tried to do with Matt last year, but unlike Artem building his on an actual 10dance (Paso) Aliona just did contemporary dance with some foxtrot elements and lifts... I guess that's why Artems was so much more well acclaimed than Alionas...

I love Kara and Artem and I love their AS (it is my favourite of all the dances on striclty ever ever ever! ) but it didn't deserve to get 10s. Irrelevant to how beautiful it was.

That maybe, but since the start of the show AS in SCD is supposed to be 40% in hold and 60% out of hold. Of course, the judges don't penalise if you do, say 90% out of hold and only 10% in hold, but in that particular dance, it was 0% in hold and 100% out of hold (those loose hold is not a ballroom hold, so not counted, Artem, a ballroom dancer, knows EXACTLY what 'in hold' means).

There was no excuse for Artem not to put even, say, 5% in hold. That would have satisfied Len, I am sure, because that dance WAS beautiful.

Oh I agree, I can understand Craig and Bruno liking it because they're choreographers and open to this, but Len because he's a traditionalist (hence the debate on Harry's Waltz...)
But, bringing it back to the original debate. Basing the AS on a Paso instead of Foxtrot or Quickstep is one thing, breaking hold of a traditional ballroom is different; I just think that there's room for trying to be quirky in dances like that, or Salsa, another non 10dance, as well as Freestyle should Harry make it to the final... but Aliona tries it in almost every dance; I don't understand, she has options to show herself and (supposedly more justifiably) Harry off, but she tries to change the choreography in a Waltz? just...no...

Last year I had got the impression that the judges were not fans of Aliona and Matt Baker, I had assumed that they didn't like him but now I'm wondering whether they are just not fans of Aliona's style of cherography

Harry Waltzes for 45 seconds at a level Len says is worth a 10. Somebody taught him to dance that well. What are the chances of Len praising Aliona for that improvement since the Foxtrot?

At the end of the day, I'm just happy that Harry is becoming the dancer he can be.

I liked the bit on the stairs, but to some extent I agree with Len. The Waltz part was too short. I wouldn't have minded it had it been Nancy or Lulu or Anita or really anyone else dancing it, but the first part was spectacular for a beginner dancer, I'm sure any experienced dancer or teacher would agree.

But, given what Harry said, that he was struggling with the Waltz at the beginning, I can see why Aliona choreographed that part in. At the time she choreographed it she probably didn't think the dance would turn out so good and this was a little break in the middle of the dance to distract from the problems. The judges, specially Len, are too quick at finger pointing and jumping to conclusions and don't consider that the professionals are not choreographing under normal circumstances in which the students have weeks or months to learn the dance and their progression over a week is minuscule.

I think it's just Len, to be honest.

Yes, but this is not a traditional ballroom competition. That has been made clear to us and the professionals by Alesha sitting behind the judges desk, by the fact that 50% of the marks are given by general public, and by the props. What the heck a prop is going to be used for if the dancers are going to be dancing 100% in hold? And do you remember Matt di Angelo's Waltz? It was danced almost entirely in hold and according to rules of ballroom competitions. If you remember it got a perfect score. At the time he danced it (i.e. considering the talent that had appeared on SCD), it was a very well deserved mark. But how many viewers do you know who think that? The few viewers who remember Matt's waltz do so as an example of a dance overmarked!

American Smooth and the 5 ballroom dances are distinguished by allowance of 3 lifts in AS.

And Aliona is a young and quite talented dancer, most importantly young. If she wanted to stick to the rules of ballroom competitions she would still be competing. Most professionals don't get to have such a free hand at choreography unless they are top few who get to do a lot of shows like WSSDF. The pros who are on SCD or DWTS are not there to try their hands at some "standard" choreography, they can do that for their regular students who take part in the real dance competitions. Aliona's quirkiness is quite justified.

A valid argument which almost has me swayed, but not quite.

For reference I would like to say I do remember Matt and Flavia's waltz and referenced it in an earlier argument; but by suggesting this isn't completely a traditional 10dance + others show and is for more entertainment purposes is one thing- but there is a distinct balance. They have shows like "So you think you can dance" where they throw together ballroom, latin, jazz, contemporary, lyrical; somewhere I feel Aliona would thrive because the ingenuity of the choreography there is actively encouraged, not least by Saint Arlene!

But SCD and DWTS are supposed to be pioneering new choreography from the pros within a specific framework. The use of props enhances the bookends of what are supposed to be traditional dance (see Russell's Tango- the bed motif either side a traditional Tango piece)
This is why changing AS from Quickstep or Foxtrot to Paso Doble is sort of acceptable- it still fits into the basic hollywood theme and is based on 10dance. Len doesn't approve because he is zealously traditional almost to a fault, but it's not beyond the realms of all possibility to conceive. However, breaking hold in a Waltz is breaking the spell that is weaved through beautiful footwork, emotionally lyricised movements across the floor and a chemistry between the 2 dancers. Break that, it almost isn't a Waltz from there on in. A fancy ending is all very well to draw things to a close, but in the middle with a good third of the dance to go? It just doesn't seem right, it's just not cricket!

It's worth rewatching everything that happened during the judging... very interesting to see people's behaviours.

Yes, Harry shushed Aliona, but she listened and immediately stopped, and, more importantly, she accepted his shushing; Harry touching her chin, looking at her. A glance was enough. There is a good understanding between the two.

Len then going beserk, and Craig putting his hand on his arm to calm him down, which he did, and Bruno trying to settle the whole thing by being flamboyant. There's so much going on... everyone is playing an interesting role...

You seem to have some issues with Aliona. Fact i it was a brilliant performance with the peck on the stairs put in for 'entertainment value. I think you are fooling yourself if you think the Pro makes all the decisions about content.

On the other hand, you could say Aliona created a waltz which is very memorable, because of the controversy.

Artem did not, and as a result, Holly had one of the more forgettable dances of the night.

Well Harry certainly doesn't have any say- note how on ITT he mentioned how he would "never again" question Aliona?

And I agree it was beautiful! I thought up until that moment Aliona had done it! She had done it! And then... she broke the magic for me... and that, in a Waltz with SO much potential, was nion unforgivable. What I'd love is if they get far enough to redo their Waltz like people have had the chance to in previous series, and she cuts out that bit; it will be redeemable... maybe their Viennese Waltz will be something to delight in... but it was just so frustrating when she did that to something so so beautiful :'(

Aliona's choreography is awful. Harry could be so much more.

I think you missed the point the dance content will be decided by committee not one person. The Pro will have an input but a whole host of stuff needs to be arranged.

There are so many wonderful waltzes deserving tens, such as Alesha's very own Romeo and Juliet waltz with Matt Cutler. And she did a classical ballroom styled waltz from the beginning to the end.

Gethin did an amazing waltz, worthy of all the tens, and again proper in hold in the middle, with a little more faffing about in the beginning and the end, but not in the middle.

Controversial, but I liked Matt Di Angelo's waltz, and think he deserved all the four tens. Once again, out of hold in the beginning and the end, which is allowed, but proper ballroom in hold waltz in the middle. Wonderful, magical choreography.

Harry COULD have, could have achieved that in week 5(!) with that waltz, but what did Aliona do? She tried something different. By Aliona's atrocious effort in the past, I actually don't mind her going up the stairs and getting a kiss from Harry, but when they came down, she should choreograph more in hold bits with Harry (which he did really well), and that would have satisfied Len (and may get another ten from him). Alesha already planned to give Harry ten anyway, so more in hold is not going to change her mind there.

Imagine, it could be a two-ten dance if there were more in-hold moments!

But in the end, I think the positions in the leaderboard was just about right. Chelsee should be first, Harry should be second, at best tie with Chelsee, but not better than Chelsee, because she did a proper ballroom QS and QS is so much more challenging than the waltz.

I don't think you're correct there. On ITT it was revealed that Pasha decided that Chelsee would be doing the Quickstep with a flying theme; The pros will decide most of it!

Robbie and Ola's Foxtrot- it was Ola who decided on the umbrella.

Alex and James' Rumba and Viennese Waltz, both without gimmicks and styled to James' liking! I know the producers are fettling busybodies who try and dumb the show down, but it's the pros who lap up the idea, not the backstage people!

Bobajot is one of those who supported joke acts in the past. I am not surprised he/she didn't have a clue about how much imput the pros have in choreography.

I thought the hint would have been Len and Alesha slamming Aliona's choreography tonight, but Alesha praising Ola's with Robbie a few weeks ago, along with James' stout defence of the professionals choreography tonight... it's the pros who do the hard work... or in Aliona's case the dodgy work... she's like a builder who installs you the most exquisite room in your house which you adore until you realise one loose wire has resulted in the lights not working, and even though it's easily rectifiable, it sort of ruins the whole thing

Really! I didn't think Harry was comedian material just the most likely winner this year. So tell me how much input the Pro gets? Considering most TV, particularly this show, is manipulation then I'll be interested in your response.
My support for the less capable was born out of the inherent unfairness in selection.