They also said that the deals available from other operators were "unbeatable".

So Frequencycast, a monthly UK podcast has done a 1 off special on their audio RSS feed about it, here's the blog they wrote.

http://www.frequencycast.co.uk/blog/...e-says-o2.html

And here's the audio

http://tvandtech.com/audio/frequency...cord_oct11.mp3


Seeing as they are a fairly popular UK tech podcast I would say this is bad publicity for O2, very inflexible for a customer to be 1 month off the end of their contract and not able to upgrade, and for O2 to say to the customer to go to Vodafone and admit that other networks are better value, that's just funny!

I think this is a pretty common tactic by retentions staff in a lot of different companies (not just mobile phone ones).

People learned that they could get a lot out of these companies by saying that they were going to leave - rather than losing money by giving out counteroffers, they just tell people to go.

However in this case Dave they wanted to upgrade with only 1 month left on the contract and were willing to pay the month, but O2 wouldn't have it in store, calling O2 didn't work and also he would lose his 500MB data plan as part of the upgrade which is now £6 a month.

At those rip off prices who would stay? selling a smart phone with no data plan and then saying it's £6 for 500MB is shocking! as is not letting a customer upgrade 1 month before the end of the contract.

O2 has just become so uncompetitive now that it's a joke, you'd have to be a mug or to have been mugged (by O2) to still be a customer surely?

BTW I recommend listening to the audio as he explains it far better.

http://tvandtech.com/audio/frequency...cord_oct11.mp3

Perhaps in some situations, but that's not always the case.

A comparable contract with 3 would cost me £10 more and I'd have had to pay about £50 more upfront.

T-Mobile and Orange were the same price.

I didn't check Vodafone.

O2 made it clear almost immediately after the 4S was announced that they would initially only offer it to existing contract customers who were eligible for an upgrade (standard or fast track). They've had signs up by their shop entrances stating this too.

Personally, I think the guy had more than 1 month remaining on his contract as O2 do in fact allow upgrades if you are in your final month. That's a standing policy, not a goodwill gesture.

http://www.o2.co.uk/o2rewards/paymonthlyblue

And as for the tariffs, they changed in March so I don't see why they were surprised about that? O2 don't make any attempt to hide the fact that the data bolt-on is separate now so it's hardly sneaky. Anyway, there's no point getting back into that as it was discussed at length on here earlier this year.

I've listened to the removed pod cast clip, and it just sounds like he's peeved at O2 for not allowing him to upgrade and he's taking a cheap shot. That's probably why it was taken out of the actual pod cast.

So you don't think he had any valid points, that the deals were better elsewhere, that O2 were inflexable, that it's shocking that they not only put their price up by £1 a month, but then also took away all the data and then charge £6 extra a month for a poor 500MB of data?

As O2 had the exclusivity deal on iPhone, if this is the way they are treating their Apple customers I'd be very surprised if they don't lose a lot of customers.

What he's not telling you is that he's getting double minutes for his money.

The £36 iPhone tariff he must be on (he'd be out of contract if he was on an earlier tariff) was for 300 minutes whereas the tariff he 'chose' gives 600. There is actually a tariff equivalent to what he had before, which only costs £1.25 a month more than his old tariff. I wonder why he hasn't said anything about that??

The blog actually makes it clear that his contract expiry is 24 December, and the upgrade date quoted includes the 1 month early upgrade they allow, so he's clearly not eligible for upgrade. Nothing really 'inflexible' about O2's response. They're offering a 1 month early upgrade already.

In fact, the point about mugs that you made actually applies here too. He's either a mug himself, or he was happy with the O2 tariffs otherwise he wouldn't have been in the store trying to upgrade. I mean come on - how many tech savvy people sign up to a new contract without comparing prices and services first?

I stick to my original assessment that he's just trying to get back at O2 rather than being objective about anything.

So it's no flexibility or care for existing customers then, even if they are willing to pay the difference?

Where is the customer service? as mentioned other networks do better deals, so I expect they will lose customers if they aren't willing to be flexible, even if the customer is willing to pay the gap.

He's got no reason to 'get back' at O2, he's just a typical customer that has reviewed and talked about O2 services on the podcasts and radio shows for a long time.

Why you think an ordinary customer would want to 'get back' at a network I don't know. He's just sharing his experience as a customer trying to upgrade and the fact he's having to leave and go to another network because O2 won't help.

Hi chaps,

Thanks for the thread and the comments - A listener's been in touch and suggested I have a look.

Roush is correct that I actually had two months to run on the contract, but as a Silver customer, that could be cut down to one month. Apologies for not making that clear. Regardless, O2 won't sell me an iPhone 4S until late November, but the other networks will (and cheaper).

Roush is also correct that I could have shifted networks earlier to get a cheaper tariff, and he's right. I've never had a problem with o2 before, and get good coverage where I live and roam, so I've never had the need or desire to change, and o2's done pretty well out of me over the years. Because of this, I was happy to stay with o2, and do the upgrade through them. But they won't let me, so I've had to go elsewhere...

As for my contract, I was on a £35 a month, 18 month contract with 500MB of data. I could have tried to re-contract at £31 a month (plus £6 data), which would go from £35 to £37, but the handset cost would have been much higher on a £31 a month tariff... So that wasn't a sensible option for me. It also should have been £2 a month more expensive.

I'm not aware of any network offering an iPhone one contract with no data allowance - and that's a new thing for o2.

I have no desire to discredit o2, and listeners to the show will know that I've been very positive about o2 in the past. Just feel disappointed by o2's policy changes, and judging from comments in the o2 forum and to our inbox, I'm not alone.

A couple of years ago, o2 let me (and others):

1. Be able to upgrade a handset and remain on the same tariff
2. Get an iPhone on a tariff that includes data (not make it a mandatory add-on)
3. Buy yourself out of a contract to get a new phone
4. Offer an alternative to try to keep me as a customer

... but now they don't (at least not to me).

Again - no hidden agenda - just reporting on my experiences, and the experiences of others who've contacted us in the same boat...

Pete @ frequencycast

The "much higher" handset cost on a £31+6pcm tariff is roughly the same as the cost on a £35pcm tariff from 2010 (which is now £35.74 due to the VAT increase):

e.g.

16GB iPhone 4 on the old 2010 tariff: £179 upfront, and £35.74pcm for 18 months. 300 minutes, "unlimited" SMS, 500MB data.

16GB iPhone 4S on the new 2011 tariff: £169.99 upfront, and £37pcm (£31 + £6 data Bolt On) for 18 months. 300 minutes, "unlimited" SMS, 500MB data.


So, the 2011 tariff gives the exact same allowances per month for an increase of £1.26 on the 2010 tariff, with an upfront saving of £9.01 on the handset compared to last year.

All agreed Matt - although slightly academic if o2 won't sell me a phone on this tariff. Also, I was looking to buy this month, not last year, so have been comparing to today's prices, not 2010.

Here's my alternative:

Option 1: Handset from Apple, service from GiffGaff

- New handset: £499
- Service: 250 Minutes, Unlimited Text, Unlimited Internet. £10 a month

Total after 18 months: £679 (£499 + £180)


Option 2: Handset and service from o2

- New handset: £169
- Service: 300 mins, Unlimited text, 500MB Internet. £37 a month (with data bolt-on)

Total after 18 months: £835 (£169 + £666)


Advantages of Option 1: Available now. £156 cheaper. No contract (so no hassle when iPhone 5 comes out), and an unlocked handset. Unlimited Internet.

Before anyone points it out,the £10 GiffGaff only offers 250 free minutes, vs 300 with o2. However, £15 a month at GiffGaff gets 400 minutes. Total £769 - More minutes and still cheaper than o2.

Have I missed anything?

I find three providers the best smart phone plans.

We did seriously consider going with 3 for the iPhone 4S. Their £35 / 2000 minutes / unlimited data seemed to make sense, plus £99 for handset.

There were two reasons why we didn't go for 3 though:

1. 24 month contract, not 18 (which might cause issues for future upgrades)

2. No in-store stock in time for our November podcast

Being a data-thirsty user, the data plan would have made this a good choice, had 3 had any stock...

But you have been comparing to 2010's...

e.g. "Our £35 a month contract with 500MB of data, would convert to a £36 a month contract with no data"

... except you have not been comparing like for like.

Your current £35 (£35.74) tariff does not convert to 2011's £36 tariff minus data, it converts to 2011's £31+£6 tariff and bolt on. Same minutes (300), same SMS ("unlimited"), same data (500MB), similar upfront cost for the phone (16GB handset is £169.99 now, in 2010 it was £179). Monthly cost of £37 on the 2011 tariff versus £35.74 on the 2010 tariff. Your comparison is misleading.


You're still in contract. O2 doesn't have to sell you anything. You wait until your contract expires, or buy your way out early and switch networks. O2 isn't doing anything wrong.



Vodafone

16GB iPhone 4S: £169
Tariff: 300 mins, "Unlimited" SMS, 500MB data. £36 per month.


T-Mobile and Orange are pretty much the same, IIRC.

O2, Vodafone, Orange and T-Mobile all charge the same/similar for the phone, and all have very similar tariffs.


The only network which is significantly different is Three, which gives more minutes plus gives truly unlimited data. 24 month contracts only, though.


--------------------

As another example of O2 versus Vodafone:

My cousin has a contract with O2, like me. Unlike me though he was unwilling to wait another month for his contract to end before getting an iPhone 4S. O2's refusal (like last year) to offer online/phone upgrades, and O2's refusal (like last year) to offer pre-orders, led to my cousin deciding to jump ship to Vodafone.

He signed up with Vodafone online. As a backup plan, he also ordered a SIM free 4S directly from Apple, to ensure that he got one on release.

The Apple-order turned up on release. The Vodafone order did not.

He contacted O2 to get a PAC so he could ditch O2 and move to Vodafone.

... and O2 retentions promptly made him a deal to keep his custom. He told them what he'd get with Vodafone and they bettered it, plus offered him some accessories he didn't need but could probably sell.

End result... He stayed with O2, cancelled the Vodafone order, and sold the extra phone.

Yes, actually.

For an accurate comparison of services you need to add £15 per month to your SIM free phone / GiffGaff option for the unlimited BT OpenZone hotspot access that you get free with O2. (You'd get unlimited access to The Cloud's hotspots too, but their charging structure is more complicated).

It's a common mistake that people make to not properly compare the services you get and to just look at the headline numbers.

So, with the WiFi taken into account:

Option 1 becomes a total of £949 over the 18 months

Option 2 remains at £835 over the 18 months

I'd argue that with unlimited 3G (vs 500MB with o2), the need to hop onto BT Openzone isn't so important, and isn't worth the extra per month.

Also, as I'm with with BT Broadband, I get free access to BT OpenZone and BT Fon, so no need to pay twice.

For me, option 1 is still cheaper than o2, I believe.

I'm not disagreeing here. My point is that previously, o2 would:
[LIST=1][*]Let me upgrade to a handset and remain on my existing tariff[*]Sell me an iPhone on a tariff that includes data (not make it a mandatory add-on)[*]Let me buy myself out of a contract to get a new phone[*]Do something other than make me switch to another provider[/LIST]
Yes, they're not doing anything wrong, and their revised terms and conditiond are very clear. However, you can't deny that the rules have changed recently, and some users a) aren't happy, and b) may want to jump ship.

There are quite a few people over in the o2 forum unhappy for similar reasons to ours - see http://forum.o2.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=25 - Several threads about changes to Fast Track policy and lack of data on iPhone tariffs. There are some very disappointed o2 customers out there, who, like your cousin, felt that moving elsewhere was their only option.

I believe that, like me, the there are o2 customers out there unhappy about o2's recent policy changes - they are geninue o2 customers who feel let down.

- I do not believe O2 has ever let anyone get a new iPhone and retain their existing tariff - certainly not as a standard option. You always have to take out a new contract on a new tariff. You might be able to "upgrade" by getting a new phone, but it still involves getting a new tariff, not retaining an existing one.

- Why are you hung up over the separation of data? It makes no significant difference. Instead of £35.74, as on a 2010 tariff, you pay £37 (31+6) instead, for the exact same allowances and with almost exactly the same upfront cost (actually £9ish cheaper in 2011 for the 16GB). Splitting it off does at least let people choose how much data they have, as 500MB may be too much for some and not enough for others.

- I agree there. It does seem strange you can't still pay full whack for the remaining months to "upgrade" early, unless paying £40pcm or more.

- It's down to what they get out of you, whether it is worth doing anything to retain your custom. I'd assume my cousin spends a lot each month, hence they gave him a deal. Other people they won't give a deal. May also depend on who you talk to. Perhaps some retention agents are more willing to make a deal than others.

Well i'm on vodafone they said to me i can upgrade roughly on my 18th month even though i'm on a 24 month contract

i'm pretty sure i've heard a few companys doing that

including three though its not an offical thing :sleep:

That's a very important point. O2 actually moved the goalposts with regards the fast track upgrades. Prior to the iPhone 4S launch any O2 customer was eligible to fast track regardless of what tariff they were on or what tariff they wanted to upgrade on to. Just before the launch they altered this so you had to be on and upgrade onto a tariff costing at least £40 a month (with a base value of at least £36 - the £32 tariff with £10 bolt on doesn't count for some reason though the £36 with £6 does) which annoyed a lot of people as it basically shut an upgrade window for them. That and O2 expected their customers to queue up in the cold and rain when any other UK network would happily stick one in the post.

This of course isn't the first time O2 have attempted to move the goalposts for existing customers. They attempted (successfully in a lot of cases, not in mine as I threatened the exec office with termination of 4 accounts under the material detriment section) to amend the tariff downgrade policy mid contract about a year ago to prohibit people from downgrading more than two tiers during a contract whereas previously customers had been able to downgrade as far as they like.

It's this attempt to retroactively rewrite my terms and conditions along with O2's policy on preorders on the 4S that sent me to 3 (along with 3's unlimited data including tethering) and O2 will be losing most of, if not all of my accounts with them over the next few months as they all start to expire

I've done it in the past (iPhone 3), as have a few of the people in the o2 forum.



In my case, because of the way o2 omitted to mention the mandatory £6 bolt-on initially when I tried to upgrade.

If it makes no difference, ask yourself why o2 has done this, whilst the other networks don't. Data is a mandatory component, but has been removed from o2's headline tariff price.



Agreed. Given o2's statement: "We want to be fair to our existing customers and so are making iPhone 4S only available to them at launch." If you dig into the T&Cs for the revised Fast Track, there's a good percentage of existing customers that don't apply. You also have to waive your consumer rights and o2 Rewards benefits to upgrade.

Again - Lots of discussion of this in the o2 forum - There are o2 customers out there unhappy about o2's recent policy changes (thanks to davethorp for outlining others above). You can't deny that some people feel that o2 has let down on this.

The waiving of rights has been present since their early upgrade offer last year and always struck me as a little odd as IANAL but I didn't think it possible to give up statutory rights afforded at law and the term strikes me as possibly being unfair under the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. No one seems to have challenged them on this though

On the subject of the early upgrade offer I went into length last year to point out to people, including O2 themselves, that for most customers with the ability to progressively downgrade themselves to £10 a month it wasn't a fantastic offers expecting people to pay £20 a month to upgrade early. Of course O2's response was to then close that little loophole a few months later by changing the downgrade policy

Just to give a slightly different perspective on this - O2's new "separate" data bundle worked in my favour. I use virtually no minutes and only a few texts, but lots of data. When I upgraded I was able to go from a £35 a month tariff with only 500MB of data (no tethering) and a bunch of minutes/texts I didn't need, to paying £31 per month for 100 mins/500 texts, but with 1GB of data a month and including tethering.

I can't be the only customer for whom the separation of data from minutes/texts works as it allows greater flexibility in what you need and will use.

That's also what I've found.