I think that's because Harry is a better dancer than Holly. So Artem is kind of justified to reduce the content in his routine, to be in line with Holly's capabilities, and produce the best possible result.

But that excuse doesn't work for Aliona, because Harry is a very gifted dancer, and he seems to be able to cope with the technical part of the dance really well.

Also Artem had a lot more content in his routines last year, since Kara could handle it, but Aliona always choreographed the same way regardless her partner's ability.

I do like Aliona, I love the fact that she is a bit bonkers and she "speets" on the judges. She seems very creative, but I think she needs to reign in her creativity a bit and produce better balanced routines. Not all her ideas have to go into the same routine at once. Less is more sometimes! Just my opinion...

Just wondering whether you know anything about dance, have ever trained in or taught dance - in any form?

Just a simple question.

By the way, argument or evidence in dance is fairly obvious, and does not have to be written down or debated like a point of law.

You can actually watch it.

Quite.

She is rather nice though isn't she!!

Que? Nice as in what exactly, and please keep it clean.

Speaking as an 'expert' I'd agree with you on all of this, as I often do because you post a lot of sense!

I just don't entirely agree on the creativity thing. I would not call her creative to be honest. Her choreography is dire, but then not all dancers can actually choreograph. Most can't in fact. It's an art in itself.

I actually think Aliona is a little bit stupid, bless her, so a lot of what the judges say and the advice they give goes right over her head.

On the other hand perhaps if she ate more green veg and less custard her powers of deduction, focus and empathy would be greatly improved

And if you can actually watch it and apparently identify everything Aliona does "wrong" you can then articulate specifically what it is that proves Aliona "isn't teaching him the dances" or "makes it all about her" or whatever else she's accused of.

Personally, I don't hate Aliona. I don't even hate her choreography, I really dislike it though.

Fair enough. I'll say straight away that I'm no dance expert, just an enthusiastic follower of Strictly.
But didn't Artem and Aliona both have blank canvases with Holly and Harry ? If anything. Holly had (slightly) more experience, a pop singer/actress should adapt easier to the disciplines of dance, as opposed to a drummer in a group ?
I know that's a wild generalisation.but I bet it's what many people thought. So. I think there's a lot of credit due to Aliona..Harry has turned out to be very good, but it's no accident of nature, as far as I know he wasn't a "born dancer"..he's been taught.

Personally, I'd like to see whoever the celebrity in question is, to do a routine full of content - whether it's Harry, Holly or Edwina. Isn't that what they used to do in the early days of Strictly before faffing became fashionable?

I recall Vincent getting lambasted for not putting enough Viennese Waltz into his routine for Louisa, but I expect their VW would be considered to be loaded with content compared to what we see now!

(By the way, I'm not getting the impression that Harry is in a different league to Holly dance-wise. I think they are both more than capable).

You haven't answered my question yet. Do you have any dance training or expertise? Simple question. Well?

Why would you imagine I have any reason to want to teach you about dance. I no longer teach, nor do I have any wish to.

P.S. Articulate is to speak. Did you not mean write - or do you want people to shout out explanations and dance steps into the ether to you? Confused

Hear, hear.

I think Holly is capable, but plain lazy! What a waste of Artem!

There are people like me who like Aliona as a person and generally get a lot of enjoyment from her choreography.

I'm confident Harry and Aliona are both working as hard as they can each week. Aliona has been teaching people to dance for many years and choreography wise, something like Strictly is a bit of a quandry as to what you do. You definately cant please all of the people all of the time. I like to see the dance being very clearly identifiable and with enough content of the dance.

I dont see Harry as a very gifted dancer. I see him as a drummer who had basically no dance traning before strictly , but within him there is potential. Its taking a lot of hard work to get the results they have so far and I for one am giving them credit for that.

As for who is the expert on these things - I'm going with Aliona.

I didn't answer because I sense it was asked with hostility, which the phrasing of this re-questioning confirms. The answer is no, but nothing I'm talking about requires dance training or expertise. This isn't an expert's forum. I'm not claiming to know more about dance than anyone, simply asking people to provide reasons why they think Aliona makes her routines all about her or that she doesn't teach Harry properly, rather than just making the statement.


When did I ask you to "teach" me anything?


Articulate can refer to any form of verbal expression, it's not specifically about speaking. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/articulate

I shall regret this I know.

It's all subjective, but an analysis of their tango gives you this - they did a one arm hold (the other hanging on to the mask) from .29-37 - the only full ballroom hold was from 1.04 to 1.23 that's 19 seconds of a 1.30 routine. That equates to lazy choreography in my book.

My eyes tell me she makes her routines all about her and Len has picked up on it too. The fact that other eyes feel she does this too confirms to me that my glasses are indeed working well.

Yeah but you've missed out the bit between when your eyes scan the telly and when you write this post. That's the bit I'm curious about: the reasoning.

check her out with Matt Cutler's in one of the pro dances they do with the guests, cant remember i think was the the niece of Amy Winehouse(sp?) or something? she and matt danced that very well so she can dance very well when she is with a great partner ....

but when she needs to be the one leading tsk tsk not that good at all , also her attitude is like " well i am here so you owe it to me" ....humble my darling be humble!

I didn't post this while watching it.

I didn't say you did.

I bow to your greater knowledge, but aren't you forgetting something ?
Strictly is a show, it has to appeal to a wide audience. Despite it's name, it isn't "strictly" about ballroom and latin dancing in the "true" sense of the word.
The professionals have to "showcase" their celebrity partners, the argument really is about how far they can deviate from the required elements and still satisfy the judges. Stick entirely to a ballroom (in particlar, there's more scope in latin) routine and they run the risk of being perceived as boring. Agreed, not by the aficionados, but they don't represent the majority of the viewing public.
You consider her choreography "dire"..that may be true, as I said at the beginning, you have probably forgotten more about dance than I will ever know. However, I do know that the public were captivated by several of her routines last year..they were fun, and (at least to the armchair fan) they appeared clever and original.

Ummmmm!


Seriously, I get you like Aliona's choreography but some of us don't. Also, it's not one or two people commenting on her choreography, there are really quite a few who have picked up on it unless you're suggesting we all have a hidden agenda.

Calling Aliona 'a little bit stupid' is an ill informed and unfair comment, as was the person who said that ' x is an unknown quantity and spurt is nothing but a drip of water' also very unfair.

I get that people don't like her choreography choices and I'm not saying no one is allowed to dislike them; in this thread I'm more concerned with people bringing up the old statements about her making the routines more about her than her partner and not being a good teacher, but not backing it up with anything.

Karen also commented on the choreography content (or lack thereof) on ITT.