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Marcus - a 'straight' win?
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ribtickle
05-11-2011
Once again Marcus sings of a female love interest, while dancing with the she's so fine girls.

I expect he'll be out banging birds with Frankie tonight.

How do you feel about him/Gary so obviously downplaying his sexuality in order to win votes, it is the right and necessary approach or a bit of an insincere sell out?
dwiseman
05-11-2011
Does that mean every gay man cant sing any songs about females?
ribtickle
05-11-2011
Originally Posted by dwiseman:
“Does that mean every gay man cant sing any songs about females?”

Is it believable when they do, and should they feel they must do so all the time?

Turn it Around - would it be considered okay for straight men to feel compelled to sing about men all the time?
_Zd_Phoenix_
05-11-2011
However you look at it, it's hardly new. Gay men singing explicitly about guys is seen as being too alienating for the audience (or, at least, not familiar enough).

Should gay artists go against this to try and normalise it at the risk of their appeal, or hold it back a bit?

Not easy.
blowup
05-11-2011
but he is out of the closet isn't he? So everyone knows what they're getting.
Wayfarers
05-11-2011
Originally Posted by dwiseman:
“Does that mean every gay man cant sing any songs about females?”

It would be pointless from a 'love interest' aspect wouldn't it? This is what the OP was getting at. I remember the hoo-ha last year with Dannii Minogue mentioned Danyl Johnson not changing the gender and that he could sing that song(whatever song he performed that night) to a male or female. Cowell set about demonising her as if she were some bigot when all she was doing was pointing out a very obvious fact.
Agent F
05-11-2011
Well it's not like it's a cover up. They confronted it on the first live show with his VT - I don't think there's many people out there that don't know that Marcus is gay.
ribtickle
05-11-2011
Originally Posted by _Zd_Phoenix_:
“However you look at it, it's hardly new. Gay men singing explicitly about guys is seen as being too alienating for the audience (or, at least, not familiar enough).

Should gay artists go against this to try and normalise it at the risk of their appeal, or hold it back a bit?

Not easy.”

The solution, which others adopt, is to be ambiguous, and sing to 'my baby' rather than him or her, she or he.
Wayfarers
05-11-2011
Originally Posted by _Zd_Phoenix_:
“However you look at it, it's hardly new. Gay men singing explicitly about guys is seen as being too alienating for the audience (or, at least, not familiar enough).

Should gay artists go against this to try and normalise it at the risk of their appeal, or hold it back a bit?

Not easy.”

The Pet Shop Boys were very gender unspecific when they sang love songs it was always address to "you". We're more used to hearing guys singing to "she" or "her". I think OP is correct with what Barlow is trying to do. Make us forget the singers sexuality and instead enjoy the music, however we're all too aware that Frankie is hetero and they don't seem to play that down. Double standards IMO.
Stranded1012345
05-11-2011
It doesn't mean a thing to be honest. Marcus, Johnny and Craig are all openly out and there is clearly not an issue with that. Johnny danced with females tonight too yet they showed him being all flirty and funny with some of his male dancers, it doesn't mean anything.
RealityReal31
05-11-2011
I have no problem with that. I did have a problem with Russian Roulette where they changed the lyrics to make them fit a straight man.
Agent F
05-11-2011
Originally Posted by Stranded1012345:
“It doesn't mean a thing to be honest. Marcus, Johnny and Craig are all openly out and there is clearly not an issue with that. Johnny danced with females tonight too yet they showed him being all flirty and funny with some of his male dancers, it doesn't mean anything.”

Perhaps, but Johnny isn't going to win and nobody expects him to. They probably couldn't afford to be so overt with Marcus.
Neda_Turk
05-11-2011
I just don't get this at all. When you are a singer (especially when starting) you sing the songs people want to hear. Not everyone has to be something you have personally been through or be autobiographical at all.

I'm Gay and when I sing karaoke I sing the words as written. To change them is just pretentious and shoving my sexuality down people's throats who just want to hear the song they remember.

It's a song, not a political statement of fact.

I've even sung 'Old Shep' but I've never had to shoot a dog in my life.
Master Ozzy
05-11-2011
Of course he's not going to change the words to suit his sexuality. We're in 2011 and unfortunately, there's still a hell of a lot of homophobic people in the world. If he changed the words to suit his sexuality, it would be all over the papers and the media and a massive deal would be made of it when it shouldn't be. It could potentially do his chances of winning some harm, so why would he change the words?
blowup
05-11-2011
Originally Posted by Neda_Turk:
“I just don't get this at all. When you are a singer (especially when starting) you sing the songs people want to hear. Not everyone has to be something you have personally been through or be autobiographical at all.

I'm Gay and when I sing karaoke I sing the words as written. To change them is just pretentious and shoving my sexuality down people's throats who just want to hear the song they remember.

It's a song, not a political statement of fact.

I've even sung 'Old Shep' but I've never had to shoot a dog in my life.”

I agree. I don't see why lyrics should be changed or why Marcus should avoid songs about women (majority of songs by male artists!).
Neda_Turk
05-11-2011
My fav at karaoke is 'Honkytonk Woman' am I supposed to distory the lyrics by changing them to:

I met a gin soaked, bar-room king in memphis,
He tried to take me upstairs for a ride.
He had to heave me right across his shoulder
Cause I just can't seem to drink you off my mind.

Its the honky tonk ma-aaaaan (to make it fit the tune)

How to murer a great classic!
ribtickle
05-11-2011
Originally Posted by Master Ozzy:
“Of course he's not going to change the words to suit his sexuality. We're in 2011 and unfortunately, there's still a hell of a lot of homophobic people in the world. If he changed the words to suit his sexuality, it would be all over the papers and the media and a massive deal would be made of it when it shouldn't be. It could potentially do his chances of winning some harm, so why would he change the words?”

That's how it is, clearly they worry he will not win if he's seen as gay. Each week he's sang songs towards a female interest, and gyrated with female dancers with any males just there on the periphery. Dermot has also jested with him about how fit the female dancers were, which harked back to Simon's cringeworthy remarks to Austin Drage.

When Marcus addressed his outing in the press during the first week's VT intro, where he was shown tearful, he neither confirmed nor denied anything, although his newspaper photo showed him head-to-head with the guy from Eton Road. However blink and you'd have missed it, and ever since then it could be taken to the average viewer who could recollect it that it was all lies and the hairdresser is in fact a raving hetero.

I understand why they feel they must do this, but that maybe they're going too much one way, and should be ambiguous. Craig does not do the same thing, and yet his non-dance music/ballad genre is more hinged upon singing to a love interest than Marcus, who is more dance music oriented where the sexuality of the singer is less 'important'.

The way things are going I can see Marcus crooning Charles Aznavour's She next week.
Bumtiddlywinks
05-11-2011
hes in a popularity contest and he has a choice.

He can either change the lyrics and risk alienating himself and losing a shedload of votes or....

he can just keep the lyrics as they are, win the competition and then once he has the power and opportunities start singing songs that more accurately reflect his sexuality.

if thats what he wants to do. Elton John and Will young have had very successful careers without singing songs specifically about men.

And if marcus is smart he would make his songs gender non-specific too, that way both genders can identify with his music and hell sell more records
jackbell
05-11-2011
Originally Posted by Neda_Turk:
“I just don't get this at all. When you are a singer (especially when starting) you sing the songs people want to hear. Not everyone has to be something you have personally been through or be autobiographical at all.

I'm Gay and when I sing karaoke I sing the words as written. To change them is just pretentious and shoving my sexuality down people's throats who just want to hear the song they remember.

It's a song, not a political statement of fact.

I've even sung 'Old Shep' but I've never had to shoot a dog in my life.”

Refreshingly well put.

I think there are times and situations to stamp your own personality on a song and times when you can just relax and sing the song as intended.
Snozzcumber
05-11-2011
Amelia didn't change the lyrics to Billie Jean either.

If you're singing someone else's song, I don't see why you have to personally relate to it.
Agent F
05-11-2011
Originally Posted by Neda_Turk:
“I just don't get this at all. When you are a singer (especially when starting) you sing the songs people want to hear. Not everyone has to be something you have personally been through or be autobiographical at all.

I'm Gay and when I sing karaoke I sing the words as written. To change them is just pretentious and shoving my sexuality down people's throats who just want to hear the song they remember.

It's a song, not a political statement of fact.

I've even sung 'Old Shep' but I've never had to shoot a dog in my life.”

I can see where you're coming from but I wish people wouldn't use such provocative language as 'shoving my sexuality down people's throats' - you read those sorts of disparaging remarks in the Daily Mail and I hate it. We don't need to fuel the fire. We don't look at Frankie pulling birds and complain that he's 'shoving his heterosexuality down my throat' do we?
ArtemisAnimus
05-11-2011
That's like saying gay actors should only play gay roles. It's daft.

He's singing a song he didn't write so what does it matter? If he starts writing songs and is forced to make them all love songs about ladies then fair enough, but right now he's just singing songs by other people, as are all the others.

No need for this thread.
ribtickle
05-11-2011
Originally Posted by ArtemisAnimus:
“That's like saying gay actors should only play gay roles. It's daft.

He's singing a song he didn't write so what does it matter? If he starts writing songs and is forced to make them all love songs about ladies then fair enough, but right now he's just singing songs by other people, as are all the others.

No need for this thread.”

So if Frankie was given a song about loving a man each week that would be perfectly okay?
Fatima502
05-11-2011
It might be that they're not allowed to change the lyrics. I think the rights holders can demand this.
buddy'smum
05-11-2011
Originally Posted by Neda_Turk:
“I just don't get this at all. When you are a singer (especially when starting) you sing the songs people want to hear. Not everyone has to be something you have personally been through or be autobiographical at all.

I'm Gay and when I sing karaoke I sing the words as written. To change them is just pretentious and shoving my sexuality down people's throats who just want to hear the song they remember.

It's a song, not a political statement of fact.

I've even sung 'Old Shep' but I've never had to shoot a dog in my life.”

Agree with you totally - well said!
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