Simon cowells biggest ambition with xfactor was to make it bigger and better than Simon fullers pop idol/ American idol
Whilst cowell was the face of idol fuller was the brains.
American idols ratings didn't suffer when cowell left they did in fact increase.
I don't think cowell will ever outshine Simon fuller the latter doesn't mess with idols format and doesn't go for cheap publicity stunts it started as a talent show and all these years later it remains s talent show more successful than ever while Simon cowells x factor is sinking faster than the titanic.

Simon Fuller orchestrated the success Amy Winehouse, a solo Annie Lennox and The Spice Girls.

Simon Cowell orchestrated the success of Robson & Jerome.

In terms of career acheivments alone, Fuller far surpasses Cowell.

the story was that cowell and fuller both came up with the idea for pop idol but fuller took all the credit for it himself

No fuller asked cowell to be a judge on the very first pop idol and he turned him down the job then went to nasty Nigel and when cowell saw how popular it was he signed up as a judge.

Not sure who came up with the idea, but Fuller was the boss.. and probably put up the cash as well.

Simon saw what could be made and jumped in with X factor, they were at logger heads and Fuller tried to sue Simon, I believe they settled out of court.

As a show Pop Idol was far better, even our one over here, it was more credible, well the first one was, and it produced some good singers as well, not just Will Young, singers who were around for longer than one hit single.

The way it was done was more credible than all this mentoring, and arguing between judges, it was about the contestants, not the judges, in fact the judges were funny, I loved the show, and you got to know the contestants as it was on during the week as well.

Simon Cowell for me does not have a clue about music, he is just about the money.

no it was popstars cowell turned down which nasty nigel did in the end

he was on board from the start of idol

Thanks I was not going to argue that but thought it was Cowell the lady judge, Waterman and Fox..who was hilarious I loved Neil... they just gelled so well, the auditions were hilariously funny and such a great show to watch, this pile of shite is no comparison at all.. shame really but all the shanadigins have got beyond a joke.

Yes your right it was with Pete waterman great show.

Yes and Pete knew his apples from his pears, as did Foxy.

Do you remember how great the final was between will young and garteth gates no fighting just great fun to watch.

I can remember so much about that show it is shameful... it was great and I loved pop idol 2 until Michelle won it, which for me was a travesty.

I can remember the buses that both Will and Gareth toured the country in, picking up things as they went around, I can remember Rik Waller going and Darius coming back, the Irish girl, oh so many good memories from an excellent show, and no fighting of judges either, as you say fun to watch and a wonderful final... the very best of the lot.

Both of them need to find something new, IMO. Cowell has just launched a successful new brand on US TV that has got a 2nd season order for about 40 hours, something any TV producer would kill for especially when you've already got a 40 hour commission on another network. Indeed, Fuller hasn't launched a successful new show since So You Think You Can Dance in 2005. But with X Factor, Cowell has now played his trump card that he has been holding for years. Globally, X Factor has been around since 2004. So the last time Cowell launched a new TV franchise was 2006 (Got Talent).

They both need new brands.


Nigel Lythgoe was the Controller of Entertainment at Granada. He was Executive Producer of Popstars and set out to find a music industry executive to judge it. He first approached Jonathan King but then his misdeeds came to light. So he tried Simon Cowell who at the time was enjoying success with 2 manufactured bands (Westlife and Five) and had history in working with TV projects. According to Cowell, he turned it down and regretted it. According to Lythgoe, BMG refused to allow Cowell to do it. Whatever the reason, the end result was that Nigel ended up doing the judging bit himself.

Simon Fuller was working on his own idea for a kind of Popstars/Big Brother hybrid. At some point, he teamed up with Simon Cowell. They developed the idea and pitched it to production companies and channel commissioners.

Simon Cowell was to be a judge. He roped in his old mentor Pete Waterman. Nicki Chapman was working for Simon Fuller at the time in a very high up role (and had worked with Cowell at RCA in the 90's). So keen were the Simon's to get the press hyped about the show that they considred hiring a writer from The Sun to guarantee support. But they ended up going with Neil Fox. ITV's Controller of Entertainment attached Ant & Dec to the project to give them wider exposure.

They both try to play down the rivarly (at least sometimes!) but keep butting heads and crossing paths which the press seem to love. Indeed, it's

I can't stand all the bickering that surrounds the X Factor and the need to drive PR to get headlines in the media.

PI grabbed all the headlines for all the right reasons. It was refreshingly different.

It was such a great family show and people genuinely cared for the contestants, who clearly were very supportive of each other.

The judges knew what they were talking about and Simon's style clicked with the viewers. It was a "water cooler" topic. Everyone was talking about it.

Frankly I remmeber many of the final fifty in the first series of Pop Idol and they and certainly all 11 of the finalists would wipe the floor with most of the acts who've been on X Factor.

Let's remember they got no mentoring on that show, no fancy lighting, costumes, dancers or pyrotechnics, and they had to sing to backing tracks until last five week when they sang the Big Band songs with the band (Big Blue?).

Rik Waller may be a joke figure to many ds-ers but he had a really good voice.

I think it's sad he didn't make more of the opportunity of being the first singer from the show to get a hit record or make much of his later appearances on other reality shows.

Nearly ten years later and the top 4 in PI are still great live singers and performers.

PI was so much better than X-Factor as you say Airam.

I think it is the mentoring which has made it so bad. The bickering and in-fighting between the judges, the shouting out when someone is singing and then the judges talking over each other is all ridiculous.

I often watch my recording of PI - last ten. Happy Days!

Reading the tabloids over the last few days it struck me how childish it's all become. Ten years ago and more constant bickering between the judges would have been considered unprofessional but now it's positively encouraged. Anything is as long as it keeps the programme on the front pages.
It's all so false and manipulative now, I think the public are finally waking up and smelling the roses. I hope the ratings continue to slump, Cowell has had his day imo/

The things that stick out for me in XFactor are the numerous adverts, sob stories, fillers in about each act, squabbling judges and about 2mins of actual singing for each contestant.

Pop Idol was great. I loved it when Darius returned after he was rejected on Popstars. Both Will, Gareth,and Rosie? were excellent. They all managed to sing without the dancers prancing around them...at least I don't remember if they had dancers on the show then.
I miss Band week on XFactor - it used to be my favourite

Edit - Another thing I don't like about XFactor, is the red carpet and special treatment the acts receive when they're 'out and about'. Why?

The Irish girl was called Laura Docherty. How sad am I that I remember that? There was also Jessica Garlick, Rosie Ribbons, Zoe Birkett, Hayley Evetts and Aaron the train driver. Zoe, Jessica and Hayley piss all over every young female singer I've ever seen on X Factor over the years.

both a pair of idiots - none of them is a bigger idiot than the other though

God I loved Pop Idol season 1. If you'll indulge me, my favourite bits were...
When Will Young stood up to Simon in the last 50 audition when Simon called his performance 'average'. God I fell in love with him there and then.
When Will sang 'Ain't no sunshine' LOVED. IT.
Pretty much every chat with Ant and Dec.
Actually really liking Darius in the end.
When the winner was announced. It was just about those 2 - not about a 'winning judge'.
The quality of the singing.

Like others have said - the top 50 from PI1 would wipe the floor with most of the current XF crop. But then, that's what happens when you flog the same gimmick year after year. We're a small country with a finite amount of talent. There's not an awful lot of cream left to rise to the top and so much of it doesn't want to be associated with XF anyway as its a deathknell to credibilty.

Anyway, thank for the PI reminder. I'm all warm and fuzzy now (can you tell I loved WIll Young??)

Why's that then. She deserved it.

No no no. Michelle won on her personality. (Yes, she was a good singer but she was never going to be commercially successful). It paved the way for the X-Factor format I think.

Anyway, she's doing just fine for herself anyway so props to her.

Guess fuller wins it then.
Good memories.

...And her voice. She was a very good singer on the show. Susan Boyle's had success, mcmanus could have but didn't, doesn't mean she did not deserve to win because she was overweight

I didn't mean anything to do with her weight. I thought she had a good voice but nothing distinctive IYKWIM? I actually think Michelle's weight was a positive factor in her favour as she was so well liked for not fitting the stereotype yet still being attractive and extremely likeable.

Anyway, she's got a regular presenting gig and is still her larger self so it's not held her back in any way.

In a nutshell