[quote=Moses455;54524026] I'm just thick.
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It is a scientific fact Janet cannot sing
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Originally Posted by Moses455:
“If you say Janet can sing, you have no musical intelligence. It's like a kid saying 1 + 1 = 3. That simple. She cannot sing. I already stated if you like her, that is your business. But she cannot sing in PITCH (I will use that word, as it is the basis of my argument. You don't like it, you'll have to find some way of coping with that).
As to my arse being arrogant, last time I looked it was quite pert, thank you.”
“If you say Janet can sing, you have no musical intelligence. It's like a kid saying 1 + 1 = 3. That simple. She cannot sing. I already stated if you like her, that is your business. But she cannot sing in PITCH (I will use that word, as it is the basis of my argument. You don't like it, you'll have to find some way of coping with that).
As to my arse being arrogant, last time I looked it was quite pert, thank you.”
I say Janet can sing.
I think she has difficulty holding a tune, but lots of people can hold a tune without being good singers. She has a certain quality to her voice that moves people. I am not a big fan but I can certainly understand why people like to listen to her and I certainly would never use adjectives like scientific EVER in making value statements!
I like Janet, and I am a trained musician myself. There is so much more to singing than hitting the right notes; that is why autotune sounds so jarring. The vocal affectations do not bother me either, because every non-trained singer has their own idiosyncrasies which, along with their timbre, distinguish them from others. Janet's "yelps" (mostly grace notes) are actually in tune with the music, regardless of how hard people try to hear the opposite, and are a feature of the music style with which she identifies. Citing it as an example of how she "can't sing" is essentialy musical bigotry, with the idea that Western classically trained vocalists are the pinnacle of singing ability.
It's funny noting how there are no hate threads on the imperfections of the other singers (Misha's sloppy phrasing, Kitty's strained belting, Craig's scooping) but the moment Janet has a quirk it is pounced upon. That isn't meant as a criticism to the other contestants either, there is just a bizarre and unfair double standard placed upon her.
It's funny noting how there are no hate threads on the imperfections of the other singers (Misha's sloppy phrasing, Kitty's strained belting, Craig's scooping) but the moment Janet has a quirk it is pounced upon. That isn't meant as a criticism to the other contestants either, there is just a bizarre and unfair double standard placed upon her.
Originally Posted by fixmyhoover:
“I like Janet, and I am a trained musician myself. There is so much more to singing than hitting the right notes; that is why autotune sounds so jarring. The vocal affectations do not bother me either, because every non-trained singer has their own idiosyncrasies which, along with their timbre, distinguish them from others. Janet's "yelps" (mostly grace notes) are actually in tune with the music, regardless of how hard people try to hear the opposite, and are a feature of the music style with which she identifies. Citing it as an example of how she "can't sing" is essentialy musical bigotry, with the idea that Western classically trained vocalists are the pinnacle of singing ability.
It's funny noting how there are no hate threads on the imperfections of the other singers (Misha's sloppy phrasing, Kitty's strained belting, Craig's scooping) but the moment Janet has a quirk it is pounced upon. That isn't meant as a criticism to the other contestants either, there is just a bizarre and unfair double standard placed upon her.”
“I like Janet, and I am a trained musician myself. There is so much more to singing than hitting the right notes; that is why autotune sounds so jarring. The vocal affectations do not bother me either, because every non-trained singer has their own idiosyncrasies which, along with their timbre, distinguish them from others. Janet's "yelps" (mostly grace notes) are actually in tune with the music, regardless of how hard people try to hear the opposite, and are a feature of the music style with which she identifies. Citing it as an example of how she "can't sing" is essentialy musical bigotry, with the idea that Western classically trained vocalists are the pinnacle of singing ability.
It's funny noting how there are no hate threads on the imperfections of the other singers (Misha's sloppy phrasing, Kitty's strained belting, Craig's scooping) but the moment Janet has a quirk it is pounced upon. That isn't meant as a criticism to the other contestants either, there is just a bizarre and unfair double standard placed upon her.”
great post! can i ask u what is scooping?
As a musician myself, albeit not a singer, there is an enormous point that trained musicians often miss. Technical skill, and musical talent are not the same thing. For example Steve Vai is an incredible guitarist, but musically is quite poor. Bob Dylan is musically excellent, but singing ability is poor.
Just because someone is not technically brilliant at singing does not mean it is bad music, in the same sense someone who is an amazing singer does not necessarily make the best music.
Janet is not the best singer, but I genuinely like her style of singing.
Just because someone is not technically brilliant at singing does not mean it is bad music, in the same sense someone who is an amazing singer does not necessarily make the best music.
Janet is not the best singer, but I genuinely like her style of singing.
Since when was X factor about who has the best singest voice.... or music in general, look at Rhianna and Lady Gaga.
Some people can sing in tune, some can not. Janet definitely can. She's not pitch perfect but she's not tone deaf either. I'm amazed you singled Janet out when Kitty is 100 times worse she goes flat and sharp like there's no tomorrow. If you wanted to attack someone on a technical level Kitty is the one that deserves your ire.
I'm amazed someone who claims to know anything and everything about singing picked the wrong contestant to slaughter. I am a trained singer too. I never sung out of tune before I was trained I just 'sounded' better when I was and of course I sang from the diaphragm as opposed to pushing it out from my throat and wailing nasally exactly like Kitty does.
You can blame Louis for that. He is a talentless pleb and wouldn't know if someone sang completely in tune or completely out of it so to him whatever she does sounds fine.
By the way, some singers have great character to their voice and are great to listen to even if they are not technically impressive. I'm not saying Janet is, it annoys the hell out of me that she insists on putting that pathetic Cranberries-inspired squeal at the end of her lines I'm just saying technical prowess is no guarantee you won't bore anyone to death. The kind of person I would expect to ignore originality and character and instead focus completely on technical ability is, well, an opera singer, because that's all they have.
I'm amazed someone who claims to know anything and everything about singing picked the wrong contestant to slaughter. I am a trained singer too. I never sung out of tune before I was trained I just 'sounded' better when I was and of course I sang from the diaphragm as opposed to pushing it out from my throat and wailing nasally exactly like Kitty does.
You can blame Louis for that. He is a talentless pleb and wouldn't know if someone sang completely in tune or completely out of it so to him whatever she does sounds fine.
By the way, some singers have great character to their voice and are great to listen to even if they are not technically impressive. I'm not saying Janet is, it annoys the hell out of me that she insists on putting that pathetic Cranberries-inspired squeal at the end of her lines I'm just saying technical prowess is no guarantee you won't bore anyone to death. The kind of person I would expect to ignore originality and character and instead focus completely on technical ability is, well, an opera singer, because that's all they have.
Originally Posted by joaniponi:
“great post! can i ask u what is scooping?”
“great post! can i ask u what is scooping?”
Thanks, and "scooping" is when you start just below a note and then slide up to it. By technical singers it's often seen as a bad habit or a sign of laziness because it is easier to "scoop" than hit a note dead on.
However, it's pretty much one of the defining features of jazz/swing singing and, as I said before, I don't mind it; you have to look at the singer holistically after all, it's not just a disembodied voice to be compared against a bunch of numbers!
love or hate it she's the one that always get people to comment.. this is like everything u like it or not... but that doesn't implies that everybody have to stick to that opinion... so it's lame saying that she cant sing or not...if u dont like it dont vote...if u like it vote...n definitely she have like a huge fan base so wether in the show or not she's gonna make it through the music business
Originally Posted by Moses455:
“That vocal she just gave was hopelessly out of tune, she is constantly flat and just has no stage presence”
“That vocal she just gave was hopelessly out of tune, she is constantly flat and just has no stage presence”
the Devlinator went and raped & killed another song, nothing new there. yet when i said so right after her first audition, i was called names and what not. people are funny, but then the charts reflect that.
Originally Posted by Moses455:
“It's very simple. Singing is a science. Yes, you can add colour, style, attitude and image to a voice. Fair enough. But when you TRY to sing in tune, it is a scientific fact whether you can or not. If you are constantly missing the notes, you cannot sing.
Take this from a trained opera singer,”
“It's very simple. Singing is a science. Yes, you can add colour, style, attitude and image to a voice. Fair enough. But when you TRY to sing in tune, it is a scientific fact whether you can or not. If you are constantly missing the notes, you cannot sing.
Take this from a trained opera singer,”
For me, most female opera singing sounds unnaturally forced and false and is unpleasant to listen to in much in the same way that Janet renders a song.
I'm not a musical expert in any technical way but "out of tune" on the X factor is so common and obvious to me, yet the judges cannot hear it!
It is a scientific fact that Janet CAN sing. After all, she wouldn't have got to this stage in the show and had the positive feedback that she has had so far if she couldn't.
Originally Posted by ABCZYX:
“Janet CAN sing. After all, she wouldn't have got to this stage in the show”
“Janet CAN sing. After all, she wouldn't have got to this stage in the show”
nothing beats a good slice of irony. well done.
Im shocked that Janet supporters had the cheek to say Frankie couldnt sing when they are supporting someone who is incapable of singing in tune. In fact my dog can sing better than her, and at least my dogs interesting
"Scooping"(one way of bending a note is how I'd describe it) ,much like "runs"(melismatic/ornamental passages like Leona/Mariah tend to use a lot of) can add to the delivery of a vocal IF done with taste ,understanding,and control within the context of the song as a whole,and with genuine "feel" for why you are doing it. I am a full dramatic with coloratura ext(Can effortlessly sing Queen of The Night aria or Whitney song by same name lol)but went the jazz/soul /melodic rock path because I had the voice but not the passion for classical,so went with my instincts.
I think that's why I can appreciate Janet going with hers. I may not like the sound,but can see/understand the appeal .It is easy to tell when Janet is or isn't "feeling" the song she is performing. On the show,this can be a weakness,but in general,it is not,because ,with a song she feels,people are drawn into her performance.Even me,not liking her tone/style much of the time.That is a gift she has.
As for picking apart voices,someone mentioned why single out only Janet? (Though of course,you're entitled to your opinion,bless your vocally trained little heart and aparently pert bottom,O.P.
)
I agree.Frankie and Kitty are much worse.
Kitty was born with that shrill,nasal tone that most here who studied voice will know there is no "cure" for.Even with training,she'd be Ga Ga lite.She can shout in tune,though she tends to flarp a lot of shat notes,
but no matter what she does,she will always be a mediocre singer who can passably manage pop and rock tunes as long as they are simple with melody lines that hover close to middle-C.Good tribute act,but vocally she's karaoke,
I won't even go into Frankies,um,voice,because I think we can all agree that,if any of them "can't sing" it's probably him.He technically "can",just not well,and preferably never into any form of amplification ever ever ever EVER again
I think that's why I can appreciate Janet going with hers. I may not like the sound,but can see/understand the appeal .It is easy to tell when Janet is or isn't "feeling" the song she is performing. On the show,this can be a weakness,but in general,it is not,because ,with a song she feels,people are drawn into her performance.Even me,not liking her tone/style much of the time.That is a gift she has.
As for picking apart voices,someone mentioned why single out only Janet? (Though of course,you're entitled to your opinion,bless your vocally trained little heart and aparently pert bottom,O.P.
) I agree.Frankie and Kitty are much worse.
Kitty was born with that shrill,nasal tone that most here who studied voice will know there is no "cure" for.Even with training,she'd be Ga Ga lite.She can shout in tune,though she tends to flarp a lot of shat notes,
but no matter what she does,she will always be a mediocre singer who can passably manage pop and rock tunes as long as they are simple with melody lines that hover close to middle-C.Good tribute act,but vocally she's karaoke,I won't even go into Frankies,um,voice,because I think we can all agree that,if any of them "can't sing" it's probably him.He technically "can",just not well,and preferably never into any form of amplification ever ever ever EVER again
Originally Posted by Sazaleeno:
“In all honesty she can sing. But this show isn't for her, there's nothing that is captivating about her performances. People may say 'Leona just stood there and sang', but Leona's vocals were of such a high standard, she could have sung the phonebook each week and it would still have the power to WOW. Janet does deserve an album though...”
“In all honesty she can sing. But this show isn't for her, there's nothing that is captivating about her performances. People may say 'Leona just stood there and sang', but Leona's vocals were of such a high standard, she could have sung the phonebook each week and it would still have the power to WOW. Janet does deserve an album though...”
Leona Lewis is the most over rated singer in the history of X factor.
Note that I am not sying she's the worst singer. I am saying that she's the most over rated singer.
As for Janet, you can only make so many quirky sounds.
Yep and by your standards we'd only have boring note perfect opera , classical singers to listen to , No Bob Dylan . No John Lennon , No Steve Ignorant ........ect ect ect
Quote:
“As for picking apart voices,someone mentioned why Janet?”
“As for picking apart voices,someone mentioned why Janet?”
Because this show isn't just about voices. Janet's raison d'etre, all she really offers us in her performance, is her voice.
I'm no expert, but the thing that was bugging me with her tonight was notes seeming to end prematurely relative to the music... at various points where I expected them to be sustained a little longer, she uh.. swallowed them. Other than that I had to grit my teeth and agree with GB on Xtra - it was depressing.
Originally Posted by Singy Thingy:
“"Scooping"(one way of bending a note is how I'd describe it) ,much like "runs"(melismatic/ornamental passages like Leona/Mariah tend to use a lot of)”
“"Scooping"(one way of bending a note is how I'd describe it) ,much like "runs"(melismatic/ornamental passages like Leona/Mariah tend to use a lot of)”
Ah, the "I cant hit the note but I'll try another 500 getting there" style of singing. Most often seen on a bad Karaoke night down at the local pub.
Originally Posted by 86lphillips:
“Admit it OP - you fancy her.”
“Admit it OP - you fancy her.”
Not even remotely. Too young for me, pasty looking and no expression on her face. She's not ugly though. Just inoffensive.
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