Originally Posted by pork.pie:
“Ah... a brick wall... somewhere to relax and rest my weary head... ta Laura
”
“Ah... a brick wall... somewhere to relax and rest my weary head... ta Laura
”
LOOL
Tulisa has never heard of Think?!
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Originally Posted by Perdita_x:
“Laura, read 21st Century Boy's post...it will enlighten you!!!
If you are in the music industry and are part of a particular genre, it's a fair assumption to make that you will know about your genre - your contemporaries, your predecessors and the origins of your genre. Urban music traces it's origins back to American fifties and sixties R n B - and Aretha Franklin was at the forefront of this. 2 of her most famous songs are Respect and Think. For Tulisa to not know 'Think' shows incredible ignorance of the origins of her own genre.”
“Laura, read 21st Century Boy's post...it will enlighten you!!!
If you are in the music industry and are part of a particular genre, it's a fair assumption to make that you will know about your genre - your contemporaries, your predecessors and the origins of your genre. Urban music traces it's origins back to American fifties and sixties R n B - and Aretha Franklin was at the forefront of this. 2 of her most famous songs are Respect and Think. For Tulisa to not know 'Think' shows incredible ignorance of the origins of her own genre.”
The key word though is origin, motown is not her genre, urban music is. Urban music may be distantly related to motown from the 50's and 60's, but you do not need to know everything about motown in order to be respected in urban music. It may have been a motown classic in the US and a big hit over there, but she probably, like most people her age has little to no interest in that type of music and most music from the 50's and 60's. I think people are being too harsh on her. I'm just going to have to agree to disagree, I don't think not knowing a song distantly related to her genre of music, which has been used in a few films, made number 26 on the charts in the UK and was a big hit in a completely different country over 50 years ago makes her ignorant.
Originally Posted by laura:):
“You said you've heard of all Frank Sinartras hits even though they were before you were born so age isn't an excuse. Which is why I said the song isn't a hit, meaning your comment doesn't really apply.
Why is it a song which anyone in the music industry today should have heard of? It's around 50 years old and wasn't even a hit over here. Just because it was used in some films it doesn't make it a classic which everyone "in the know" should have heard of. What exactly did that song do for the music industry which means she should have heard of it?
”
“You said you've heard of all Frank Sinartras hits even though they were before you were born so age isn't an excuse. Which is why I said the song isn't a hit, meaning your comment doesn't really apply.
Why is it a song which anyone in the music industry today should have heard of? It's around 50 years old and wasn't even a hit over here. Just because it was used in some films it doesn't make it a classic which everyone "in the know" should have heard of. What exactly did that song do for the music industry which means she should have heard of it?
”
Originally Posted by 21stCenturyBoy:
“This post is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.
First of all, your definition of hit seems hilarliously skewed. If we judge songs on chart placing alone, we can discount a lot of Beatles/ Elvis tracks which are massive but never had formal released.
And to say that Think, one of the most covered and re-recorded songs of all time, isn't a classic is just plain sad.”
“This post is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.
First of all, your definition of hit seems hilarliously skewed. If we judge songs on chart placing alone, we can discount a lot of Beatles/ Elvis tracks which are massive but never had formal released.
And to say that Think, one of the most covered and re-recorded songs of all time, isn't a classic is just plain sad.”
Originally Posted by 21stCenturyBoy:
“One of the first R&B songs to succesfully cross into the pop market is what it was. Like it or not, it's a huge song in terms of it's legacy and to dismiss it purely because of it's chart placing is incredibly small minded.”
“One of the first R&B songs to succesfully cross into the pop market is what it was. Like it or not, it's a huge song in terms of it's legacy and to dismiss it purely because of it's chart placing is incredibly small minded.”
21stCenturyBoy's summed it up perfectly here
Another person here who has never heard of this song.
From what I gather it was big in America but not a major hit here. Not sure why anyone would be expected to know it, especially someone Tulisas age.
From what I gather it was big in America but not a major hit here. Not sure why anyone would be expected to know it, especially someone Tulisas age.
Originally Posted by pork.pie:
“Ah... a brick wall... somewhere to relax and rest my weary head... ta Laura”
“Ah... a brick wall... somewhere to relax and rest my weary head... ta Laura
”
Can always count on DS to start with the baiting if someone refuses to "buckle" under "pressure". I'm not rising to your immature bait
Originally Posted by LiverpoolFCGirl:
“Another person here who has never heard of this song.
From what I gather it was big in America but not a major hit here. Not sure why anyone would be expected to know it, especially someone Tulisas age.”
“Another person here who has never heard of this song.
From what I gather it was big in America but not a major hit here. Not sure why anyone would be expected to know it, especially someone Tulisas age.
”
Because her genre is distantly related to the genre this song was in, apparently
Doesn't matter that it was never a hit or classic in this country and was made 30 years before she was even born.
Oh Laura bless ya.
As you say you have to agree to disagree
But remember us oldies are ALWAYS right
BTW i see your from my old stomping ground Wolverhampton.
How is the old town and is the Wulfrun centre still there?
Oh i miss wolverhampton
As you say you have to agree to disagree
But remember us oldies are ALWAYS right
BTW i see your from my old stomping ground Wolverhampton.
How is the old town and is the Wulfrun centre still there?
Oh i miss wolverhampton
Originally Posted by saucy git:
“Oh Laura bless ya.
As you say you have to agree to disagree
But remember us oldies are ALWAYS right
BTW i see your from my old stomping ground Wolverhampton.
How is the old town and is the Wulfrun centre still there?
Oh i miss wolverhampton”
“Oh Laura bless ya.
As you say you have to agree to disagree
But remember us oldies are ALWAYS right
BTW i see your from my old stomping ground Wolverhampton.
How is the old town and is the Wulfrun centre still there?
Oh i miss wolverhampton
”
For the record, I don't appreciate being patronised.
Yep, it's still there. It's a sh*t hole, same as always
Originally Posted by laura:):
“Because her genre is distantly related to the genre this song was in, apparently Doesn't matter that it was never a hit or classic in this country and was made 30 years before she was even born.”
“Because her genre is distantly related to the genre this song was in, apparently
Doesn't matter that it was never a hit or classic in this country and was made 30 years before she was even born.”
It all started way back then, no rhythm and blues , no swing = no pop music. It's true.
Popular music started in the 30's
Originally Posted by laura:):
“For the record, I don't appreciate being patronised.
Yep, it's still there. It's a sh*t hole, same as always”
“For the record, I don't appreciate being patronised.
Yep, it's still there. It's a sh*t hole, same as always
”
WHAT THE HELL!!
I was being nice
That's why i used the smile face
= sarcasm = nice = cheesy grin
Originally Posted by laura:):
“The key word though is origin, motown is not her genre, urban music is. Urban music may be distantly related to motown from the 50's and 60's, but you do not need to know everything about motown in order to be respected in urban music. It may have been a motown classic in the US and a big hit over there, but she probably, like most people her age has little to no interest in that type of music and most music from the 50's and 60's. I think people are being too harsh on her. I'm just going to have to agree to disagree, I don't think not knowing a song distantly related to her genre of music, which has been used in a few films, made number 26 on the charts in the UK and was a big hit in a completely different country over 50 years ago makes her ignorant.”
“The key word though is origin, motown is not her genre, urban music is. Urban music may be distantly related to motown from the 50's and 60's, but you do not need to know everything about motown in order to be respected in urban music. It may have been a motown classic in the US and a big hit over there, but she probably, like most people her age has little to no interest in that type of music and most music from the 50's and 60's. I think people are being too harsh on her. I'm just going to have to agree to disagree, I don't think not knowing a song distantly related to her genre of music, which has been used in a few films, made number 26 on the charts in the UK and was a big hit in a completely different country over 50 years ago makes her ignorant.”
You misunderstand me. I'm not speaking about gaining respect - I'm speaking about being able to function as an artist. You can't write great songs in ANY genre if you don't understand what chord progressions to use, what bass style to use etc etc...to know these things you have to understand the origins of them because that's the only way it can work.
A classical composer has to understand musical history to be able to excel in Sonata writing (for example) to know how to compose it in the correct 'form'. A composer of modern West End or Broadway musicals needs to have an understanding of the history of Opera (the musicals of their time) to understand how to differentiate between a major song and a bridge passage and move the musical forward. without it becoming stilted. They also need to recognise melodic variations so that the audience are reminded through the music of previous events, but in a such a way that it isn't just a repetition of the same piece of music over and over. An Urban Music composer needs to understand its origins and development through blues and jazz chords pentatonic working to be able to make modern songs work within their Urban framework.
Part of all of this history work means familiarising yourself with Artists and Composers of the time.
I work in the music industry across a large number of genres, and I can bore the pants off people at dinner parties about the origins of any number of musical genres simply because in order to be able to function properly in my roll, I have to.
Originally Posted by LiverpoolFCGirl:
“Another person here who has never heard of this song.
From what I gather it was big in America but not a major hit here. Not sure why anyone would be expected to know it, especially someone Tulisas age.”
“Another person here who has never heard of this song.
From what I gather it was big in America but not a major hit here. Not sure why anyone would be expected to know it, especially someone Tulisas age.
”
Agreed. I've listened to a lot of music over the last 40 or so years and never knowingly heard it. Tulisa's primarily a creative artist and I'm blowed if I can see the rationale behind what seems to be an attempt after the fashion of the National Curriculum to establish a body of Songs Every Practising Musician Should Have Heard.
Originally Posted by saucy git:
“WHAT THE HELL!!
I was being nice”
“WHAT THE HELL!!
I was being nice
”
Well apologies if you were, came across patronising to me.
I just hate the way a lot of people on here resort to baiting and sly digs if you don't cave in and agree with them. It's immature and unecessary.
So you escaped Wolverhampton eh? Lucky you!
I'm trying my hardest to leave as well!
Shocking.
It's not just the Contestants that need to reach outside of their comfort zone. The Judges need to do their research too. Especially as they are judging a music competition.
I'm 8 years older then Tulisa, which when i comes to music is not that great a gap. Think was before my time but I am still very familiar with that song.
It's not just the Contestants that need to reach outside of their comfort zone. The Judges need to do their research too. Especially as they are judging a music competition.
I'm 8 years older then Tulisa, which when i comes to music is not that great a gap. Think was before my time but I am still very familiar with that song.
Originally Posted by laura:):
“Well apologies if you were, came across patronising to me.
I just hate the way a lot of people on here resort to baiting and sly digs if you don't cave in and agree with them. It's immature and unecessary.
So you escaped Wolverhampton eh? Lucky you! I'm trying my hardest to leave as well!”
“Well apologies if you were, came across patronising to me.
I just hate the way a lot of people on here resort to baiting and sly digs if you don't cave in and agree with them. It's immature and unecessary.
So you escaped Wolverhampton eh? Lucky you!
I'm trying my hardest to leave as well!”
I lived in Tettenhall which was lovely in the 80's
but lived in Heath town (has that burnt down yet ?
)I've got rose tinted glasses on me thinks.
Dont worry about the patronising thing, it's really hard to get feelings over on a forum, it can one way or another.
what a disgrace of a judge! you can tell she was just trying to get back at gary after craigs performance by saying he's predictable, cause he said little crap were predictable last week. Bring back the gorgeous talented cheryl and get rid of this talentless nobody who cant sing a note in tune (watch children in need) and who knows nothing about music whatsoever.
It's WORSE than Cheryl not having heard of Crocodile Rock I reckon!! I suppose at least she's honest...
But Tulisa has said urban music is her "roots" and yet Aretha Franklin IS the roots urban music. It all leaves me quite confused.com
Originally Posted by goo_goo_4_gaga:
“ive never heard of it either :S”
“ive never heard of it either :S”
Fair enough (if tragic), but do you consider yourself an "music expert" the way Tulisa does? Are you on a reality show coaching other singers?
Not knowing Aretha Franklin is like being a being a Catholic and yet never having heard of Mary.
Originally Posted by Perdita_x:
“You misunderstand me. I'm not speaking about gaining respect - I'm speaking about being able to function as an artist. You can't write great songs in ANY genre if you don't understand what chord progressions to use, what bass style to use etc etc...to know these things you have to understand the origins of them because that's the only way it can work.
A classical composer has to understand musical history to be able to excel in Sonata writing (for example) to know how to compose it in the correct 'form'. A composer of modern West End or Broadway musicals needs to have an understanding of the history of Opera (the musicals of their time) to understand how to differentiate between a major song and a bridge passage and move the musical forward. without it becoming stilted. They also need to recognise melodic variations so that the audience are reminded through the music of previous events, but in a such a way that it isn't just a repetition of the same piece of music over and over. An Urban Music composer needs to understand its origins and development through blues and jazz chords pentatonic working to be able to make modern songs work within their Urban framework.
Part of all of this history work means familiarising yourself with Artists and Composers of the time.
I work in the music industry across a large number of genres, and I can bore the pants off people at dinner parties about the origins of any number of musical genres simply because in order to be able to function properly in my roll, I have to.”
“You misunderstand me. I'm not speaking about gaining respect - I'm speaking about being able to function as an artist. You can't write great songs in ANY genre if you don't understand what chord progressions to use, what bass style to use etc etc...to know these things you have to understand the origins of them because that's the only way it can work.
A classical composer has to understand musical history to be able to excel in Sonata writing (for example) to know how to compose it in the correct 'form'. A composer of modern West End or Broadway musicals needs to have an understanding of the history of Opera (the musicals of their time) to understand how to differentiate between a major song and a bridge passage and move the musical forward. without it becoming stilted. They also need to recognise melodic variations so that the audience are reminded through the music of previous events, but in a such a way that it isn't just a repetition of the same piece of music over and over. An Urban Music composer needs to understand its origins and development through blues and jazz chords pentatonic working to be able to make modern songs work within their Urban framework.
Part of all of this history work means familiarising yourself with Artists and Composers of the time.
I work in the music industry across a large number of genres, and I can bore the pants off people at dinner parties about the origins of any number of musical genres simply because in order to be able to function properly in my roll, I have to.”
The thing is though, she hasn't been trained at all., not properly anyway, the way someone who had been to the Brit school or given private music lessons has. From what I gather she is pretty much self taught, which is why I think people are being harsh on her. She comes from a very deprived area and worked her arse off to get where she is today, not knowing one song doesn't mean she is a joke.
Originally Posted by Blue Aardvark:
“Half the audience had never heard of Tulisa until two months ago.”
“Half the audience had never heard of Tulisa until two months ago.”
LOL. Myself included. I'd never heard of her let alone knew who she was until X Factor started.
But I also have to hold up my hand and say I'd never heard of the song "think" despite being a fan of movie songs.
I guess old age must be creeping up on me.
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