[MrSuper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith_13

Erm, I went onto it in September.

I even get the proper Android unlimited internet unlike the new unlimited internet that my wife gets.

When the 18 month contract for my Desire ended they moved me onto that, so I get the same deal as my previous contract 300 anytime minutes, 300 texts, Android internet booster & unlimited texts booster.

But how did you manage to get it for £5 per month exactly?

[Hooloovoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSuper

How did you manage to get a loyaly discount? Can anyone get it? How long have you been with T-Mobile for?

I think you just need to play hard ball with retentions.

I had just come off my second 18 month contract. I asked for my PAC because I wanted to move to Giffgaff. I wasn't interested in a new handset at the time so they could only cut a deal on a SIM-only tariff

I explained that I don't like contracts with inclusive minutes because I don't use them, and invariably whenever I do need to make a phone call it's to a number that isn't included in the allowance. I also made the point that I go abroad a lot and so when I'm roaming I'm paying for an allowance I still can't use.

I told him that from Giffgaff I could get 100 minutes with unlimited text and unlimited internet for £10 per month, and if I didn't want a goodybag that month because I was going abroad I wasn't tied into buying one.

He eventually offered me the £5 per month deal on a 30-day rolling contract. So I got a really good price (half what I'd pay Giffgaff) and still managed to avoid a 12 month contract. By not locking me in, they kept my custom for another 12 months until my loyalty discount ran out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo_wales

I prefer sim free because I'm not a heavy phone user and a £10 giff gaff sim is actually more than I need. Also I'm abroad several times a year and can buy a cheap 'local' sim for calls home.

I'm also not a heavy user and a £10 Giffgaff SIM would be plenty for me too. But as I've already explained the SIM-free cost of the handset plus £240 of Giffgaff over 24 months is considerably more than the total cost of the contract I've just signed up for.

So while I will have lots of "wasted" minutes and text, I'm still better off than if I went with Giffgaff.

In my case at least, the contract makes sense.

[Mark in Essex]

Apart from cheaper phones where people do not use them much the only real benefit is to drug dealers and terrorists as they are harder to trace back to you.

[carnivalist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Essex

Apart from cheaper phones where people do not use them much the only real benefit is to drug dealers and terrorists as they are harder to trace back to you.

They can do that from the SIM card surely?

[carnivalist]

The problem I have is the indoor reception in certain places on Orange and the infuriating way they brand their handsets (i.e firmware branding as opposed to sticking their logo on, which is only mildly annoying). If it wasn't for that the decision to continue with them would be much easier.

[call100]

I think the problem with the figures is that to make them work for a contract you have to tie yourself in for 24 months. For me that is an unacceptable period of time...

[carnivalist]

That's the big thing for me. Apart from a major loan or a mortgage, there's no way I'd tie myself into such a long contract for anything else. Too much can happen in two years. 24 month contracts are crazy IMO - 18 months is bad enough. Oh for the days of 12 month contracts.

[Keith_13]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSuper

But how did you manage to get it for £5 per month exactly?

My contract was due to end in October, so 6 weeks or so before i called up and asked what was available with sim only. The woman offered it without asking for PAC or anything..

I actually have unlimited land lines at the moment as booster. It is a 24 month contract but if i want a new phone i can call up and have the discount removed or buy a sim free model.

Novembers bill:-

Your monthly plan charges
300Mins&300Text(24)15 £12.77
Unltd Lline Booster (FB) Free
Internet Included Free
Loyalty discount from your monthly line rental - £8.33
Monthly charge total £4.44
What you used outside of allowance - UK
Calls
02:22 mins outside of allowance £1.12
Total charges outside of allowance £1.12
This all adds up to: £5.56

[call100]

They like sim only deals as they don't make anything on the phones. It's the ideal win for them to keep you without having to provide a long term loan for a phone...

[MrSuper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith_13

My contract was due to end in October, so 6 weeks or so before i called up and asked what was available with sim only. The woman offered it without asking for PAC or anything..

I actually have unlimited land lines at the moment as booster. It is a 24 month contract but if i want a new phone i can call up and have the discount removed or buy a sim free model.

Novembers bill:-

Your monthly plan charges
300Mins&300Text(24)15 £12.77
Unltd Lline Booster (FB) Free
Internet Included Free
Loyalty discount from your monthly line rental - £8.33
Monthly charge total £4.44
What you used outside of allowance - UK
Calls
02:22 mins outside of allowance £1.12
Total charges outside of allowance £1.12
This all adds up to: £5.56

Nice one! Me think i need to get one of those loyalty discounts from my monthly line rental. That's the trick!

[sammyvine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivalist

That's the big thing for me. Apart from a major loan or a mortgage, there's no way I'd tie myself into such a long contract for anything else. Too much can happen in two years. 24 month contracts are crazy IMO - 18 months is bad enough. Oh for the days of 12 month contracts.

What do you mean too much can happen? Like you mean if you can't afford to pay for the contract?

So you recommend spending £500 up front on a phone as that is how much they cost these days.

[Hooloovoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

What do you mean too much can happen? Like you mean if you can't afford to pay for the contract?

So you recommend spending £500 up front on a phone as that is how much they cost these days.

I thought that was a bit odd too. I mean, what can happen? I already have the money to pay for the whole of the contract. I wouldn't be signing up for it if I hadn't.

And if I was worried I might not be able to afford the contract half way through, I certainly wouldn't be contemplating dropping £500 on a phone up front!

Not to mention the fact that if I really can't resist the urge to upgrade half way through my contract there's nothing stopping me buying another phone SIM-free and selling the one I got on my contract. It's not like SIM-free and contract are mutually exclusive.

[sammyvine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooloovoo

I thought that was a bit odd too. I mean, what can happen? I already have the money to pay for the whole of the contract. I wouldn't be signing up for it if I hadn't.

And if I was worried I might not be able to afford the contract half way through, I certainly wouldn't be contemplating dropping £500 on a phone up front!

Not to mention the fact that if I really can't resist the urge to upgrade half way through my contract there's nothing stopping me buying another phone SIM-free and selling the one I got on my contract. It's not like SIM-free and contract are mutually exclusive.

I think what is meant is that maybe if you lose your job or something and still have 17 months of your contract left....then things get tricky.

Also regarding the £500 up front on the handset, at least you own the phone and are not tied down whilst you are with a 24 month contract.

[Hooloovoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

I think what is meant is that maybe if you lose your job or something and still have 17 months of your contract left....then things get tricky.

Well as I said I already have the money to pay so that wouldn't be a problem. Finding £15 a month to pay my phone is peanuts compared with finding the mortgage payment

Quote:

Also regarding the £500 up front on the handset, at least you own the phone and are not tied down whilst you are with a 24 month contract.

You own the phone even on a contract. It's not a rental agreement.

[sammyvine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooloovoo

Well as I said I already have the money to pay so that wouldn't be a problem. Finding £15 a month to pay my phone is peanuts compared with finding the mortgage payment





You own the phone even on a contract. It's not a rental agreement.

Yeah but you still have to pay until the contract is over.

Buying a phone sim free means there is no contract, so if you lose the phone you don't still have to pay monthly payments.

[TheBigM]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

Yeah but you still have to pay until the contract is over.

Buying a phone sim free means there is no contract, so if you lose the phone you don't still have to pay monthly payments.

But either way you still need a phone plan to get your minutes and texts.

The only real difference is paying for a phone upfront or paying for it over a longer period of time.

In some cases, paying upfront is cheaper overall, in most cases contract is cheaper (especially if you are a high user).

[sammyvine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBigM

But either way you still need a phone plan to get your minutes and texts.

The only real difference is paying for a phone upfront or paying for it over a longer period of time.

In some cases, paying upfront is cheaper overall, in most cases contract is cheaper (especially if you are a high user).

Paying upfront is deffo cheaper for the iphone.

£500 + a £10 sim only deal works out around £750 for two years.

When you compare that to signing up to a 24 month contract paying £41 (to get the phone free) you end up spending nearly £900

[carnivalist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

What do you mean too much can happen? Like you mean if you can't afford to pay for the contract?...

Exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooloovoo

I thought that was a bit odd too...I already have the money to pay for the whole of the contract. I wouldn't be signing up for it if I hadn't...

That may well be the case for you. However I venture to suggest that few people only sign a contract unless they know for sure they have the money to pay it off in full beforehand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

So you recommend spending £500 up front on a phone as that is how much they cost these days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooloovoo

And if I was worried I might not be able to afford the contract half way through, I certainly wouldn't be contemplating dropping £500 on a phone up front!

I never actually said I was going to buy a phone. I've realised that my OP is misleading. I meant "Sim ONLY" instead of strictly "Sim FREE".

Nevertheless there are pitfalls in signing a long contract as opposed to buying a phone upfront. You might easily be able to afford a phone at the start of your contract, but suddenly find yourself unable to pay the line rental a year later. The phone might not be as saleable then, due to condition, or obsolescence etc.

[carnivalist]

i.e the pros and cons as opposed to a phone contract. Probably obvious, but I was just checking to see if there was something that hadn't occured to me.

[TheBigM]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

Paying upfront is deffo cheaper for the iphone.

£500 + a £10 sim only deal works out around £750 for two years.

When you compare that to signing up to a 24 month contract paying £41 (to get the phone free) you end up spending nearly £900

Obviously, if you pull numbers out of a hat, it can seem like upfront is cheaper. You can see another thread where I have demonstrated that a contract can be significantly cheaper. Namely, a deal with T-Mobile where you can get either the HTC Titan or the android equivalent with 300m, 300t and unlimited data for a total over two years of £580.

The equivalent sim-free option would cost £820 eek! (this game can be played either way)

My main point being, in each case you have to do the sums and see what works out cheaper. If you then assume even a modest discount rate (e.g. 5%) instead of 0%, then the discounted present value of the contract option will fall by more than upfront+simo option would.

[call100]

Still signed up for 24 months though.....That is the disadvantage IMO. As a matter of interest, what would the package cost for 12 months?

[Hooloovoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

Buying a phone sim free means there is no contract, so if you lose the phone you don't still have to pay monthly payments.

True. But you've still lost a £500 phone either way!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyvine

Paying upfront is deffo cheaper for the iphone.

£500 + a £10 sim only deal works out around £750 for two years.

When you compare that to signing up to a 24 month contract paying £41 (to get the phone free) you end up spending nearly £900

Yes, if you insist on getting the phone for "free". Or of course we should say "zero upfront cost" because clearly it is not "free".

Paying a high contract and zero for the phone is always the most expensive way of obtaining the phone.

Buying it up front of paying a SIM-only tariff is cheaper, yes, you are indeed correct.

But going half way and paying a moderate amount for the phone up front followed by the cheapest contract you can get is usually cheaper still. I'd go as far as to say it's always cheapest because in my personal experience I've never found it to cost more with any phone I've looked at in the last two years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivalist

That may well be the case for you. However I venture to suggest that few people only sign a contract unless they know for sure they have the money to pay it off in full beforehand.

Well, that's why the world is in the mess it's in. Maybe if people remembered how to save for things they wanted rather than jumping into a credit agreement they are not certain they will be able to afford the world would be a more economically stable place. But that's a different thread ...

Quote:

Nevertheless there are pitfalls in signing a long contract as opposed to buying a phone upfront. You might easily be able to afford a phone at the start of your contract, but suddenly find yourself unable to pay the line rental a year later. The phone might not be as saleable then, due to condition, or obsolescence etc.

True. But if I do find myself in a position that I can't afford the £15 per month I have to pay on the new two-year contract I have just started, then I obviously will be struggling to pay my £550 mortgage payments too.

In which case a phone contract will be the least of my worries.

[carnivalist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooloovoo

...
But going half way and paying a moderate amount for the phone up front followed by the cheapest contract you can get is usually cheaper still. I'd go as far as to say it's always cheapest because in my personal experience I've never found it to cost more with any phone I've looked at in the last two years.

Interesting point. I've never been offered that option on a retention deal. Yet another layer of complexity! (This phone, that phone; this number of minutes, that number of texts; this operating system, that operating system; which has better reception; which has better this, that or the other. It's doing my head in).

Quote:

Well, that's why the world is in the mess it's in. Maybe if people remembered how to save for things they wanted rather than jumping into a credit agreement they are not certain they will be able to afford the world would be a more economically stable place. But that's a different thread ...

Partially true - but consumer debt is a symptom of the more fundamental causes.For example neo-liberal fiscal policy creating an increasing income gap, with relatively static wages for the poorer along with an ever wealthier minority. The consumer debt is part cultural cause; part compensation for static wages and partly the consequence of the small-time speculation tacked onto the tails of the asset bubbles driven by the huge surplus income of the wealthy, which is more critical than consumer debt per se. The richest tend to invest the majority of their huge excess wealth, rather than spending it on consumer goods. Often these investments take the form of get-even-richer-quick schemes, like the rush into the very same mortgage-backed securities that triggered this crisis. But as you say, this is not the topic for this forum.

Quote:

True. But if I do find myself in a position that I can't afford the £15 per month I have to pay on the new two-year contract I have just started, then I obviously will be struggling to pay my £550 mortgage payments too.

In which case a phone contract will be the least of my worries.

But you are assuming that everyone can have as good a deal as you. Even if that were true, if you found yourself having to watch every last penny, as many are having to do now and many more will have to do in future, you would want to ditch the phone before you ditched the house. A CCJ for not sticking to your phone contract wouldn't necessarily be a disaster, but I would want to factor in the risk of something like that happening. Two years is a long time.

There's also the potential for moving in the two years and finding that you have no signal in your new home. As far as I know you can't cancel contracts for this reason.

[Hooloovoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivalist

Interesting point. I've never been offered that option on a retention deal. Yet another layer of complexity!

Really?

But it's standard practice. For example:

£15pm and phone for £300.
£20pm and phone for £100.
£40pm and phone "free", etc.

They are all common tariffs, whether for new customers or retention offers. You've never seen this?

Quote:

if you found yourself having to watch every last penny, as many are having to do now and many more will have to do in future, you would want to ditch the phone before you ditched the house.

But if I found myself in the position where spending £15 per month on a phone meant the difference between paying or not paying the mortgage, I still maintain I'd have bigger issues to worry about than the phone contract!

Quote:

There's also the potential for moving in the two years and finding that you have no signal in your new home. As far as I know you can't cancel contracts for this reason.

That's a legitimate point, I'll give you that one. But I think I'd rather take gamble on the cheap contract and assume that I'm not going to move in the next two years. It seems a safe bet.

[jra]

The amount some people are prepared to spend on a mobile phone (judging by this thread) is mind boggling.

Paying BT around £250 for a landline a year is bad enough for me and most of that is line rental.

My last mobile cost me £15 and that was including £10 of credit.

As for free texts. Texts are virtually free to send anyway, so any money made from text messaging/SMSs is virtually 100% profit for mobile phone companies.

And lets not talk about termination charges, charging to phone 0800 and even paying to receive phone calls.

The whole mobile phone industry in this country is essentially a big rip off. I briefly phoned mobile to landline from here to Sweden on PAYG (the call must have lasted 3 minutes at most) and was charged £2-50 for the privilege.