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Old 21-11-2011, 21:16
DocumentaryFan
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FACT: The UK - since being forced into the EEC (now EU) - has paid over twice as much into the EEC/EU that she has got out of it.
But how much did it gain from the EU in other ways, such as direct access to the common market (a readymade market of more than 500 million people versus a "domestic" market of less than 65 million)?

We don't want to be in the anachronistic EU - the most recent opinion poll here in the UK on the subject shows support for withdrawal from the EU at a record high - and we certainly do not want your useless euro.
The EU is not forcing the UK to remain a member. I'd be sorry to see the UK go, as I think it is a modern, multicultural European society that adds to the continent's wonderful diversity and could act as a vital link between the rest of the EU and the US. However, the EU would certainly survive the UK's departure, especially since the UK is already more or less "semi-detached" from the rest of the EU (not being in the eurozone or in Shengen, for instance).
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Old 21-11-2011, 21:17
jcafcw
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One thing I like about Germany is there seems to be a good relationship between the unions and employers. Over here it seems to be more adversarial.
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Old 22-11-2011, 08:45
Superwomble
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France and Italy are about Britain's size yet they also contribute more than the UK.

On a per capita basis, even Slovenia (since you bring it up) contributes more.
Wrong, according to this article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_...European_Union

France and Italy both contribute less per capita.

Slovenia is a net beneficiary per capita, recieving 1443 Euros per person more than they contribute.
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Old 22-11-2011, 08:48
alanr74
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Wrong, according to this article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_...European_Union

France and Italy both contribute less per capita.

Slovenia is a net beneficiary per capita, recieving 1443 Euros per person more than they contribute.
do you have figures from any other source, as those seem to be contested quite heavily.
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Old 22-11-2011, 08:56
Superwomble
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do you have figures from any other source, as those seem to be contested quite heavily.
I dont, but I would be interested if you have. I simply Googled and went for the first result. Wikipedia may not have the best reputation but I would doubt it would be very far out on something so heavily contested. Their references seem to be official sources - I would look into it but I am just about to go to a job.

I simply felt that the posting was wrong, given what has been in the general media over the last few years.
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Old 22-11-2011, 09:00
alanr74
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I dont, but I would be interested if you have. I simply Googled and went for the first result. Wikipedia may not have the best reputation but I would doubt it would be very far out on something so heavily contested. Their references seem to be official sources - I would look into it but I am just about to go to a job.

I simply felt that the posting was wrong, given what has been in the general media over the last few years.
no worries. I'll have a look later. I've come across some good information from RabuBank before, that makes a good case for Britain being in the EU. It actually has quite a neutral tone to it all.

I'll see if I can russel them up for you, over your mid-morning coffee
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Old 22-11-2011, 17:19
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Their references seem to be official sources - I would look into it but I am just about to go to a job.
Their reference is a Eurosceptic lobbying group which argues that many EU powers should be returned to the member states. If you look at the article's discussion group, many Wikipedia commenters are critical of the data and its origin. I wouldn't be surprised if the data doesn't take things like the UK rebate into account.

According to the BBC's data, France and Italy contribute more:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8036097.stm
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Old 22-11-2011, 17:32
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Never mind; I see that the UK's net contribution is still bigger according to the BBC data. I wonder, however, if it takes the rebate into account?
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Old 22-11-2011, 18:49
xxtimbo
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Come on , own up, how many voted yes in the
European Common Market referendum in 1975 ?
quote
Just over 67% of voters supported the Labour government's campaign to stay in the EEC,
end quote.

that massive yes vote ensured that we stayed in the common market.
It was a trick though because as the years went by, new legislation
came out and suddenly we found ourselves locked into a political union that was taking away UK sovereignty and independence.

Very soon now we are going to have to pay the bill to support
this mad single currency and all the EU expansion that has gone on over the years.
Turkey could be the next one in... but why stop there ? lets invite
Pakistan to join ? why not ?
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Old 22-11-2011, 18:59
Superwomble
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Their reference is a Eurosceptic lobbying group which argues that many EU powers should be returned to the member states. If you look at the article's discussion group, many Wikipedia commenters are critical of the data and its origin. I wouldn't be surprised if the data doesn't take things like the UK rebate into account.

According to the BBC's data, France and Italy contribute more:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8036097.stm
Shoot the messenger.


Go to your link and click the 'net by population' button......France and Italy are below the UK....



As an addendum, timbo, the referendum vote was the first ever vote I cast - I voted 'no', because I could see what it was going to become even back then.
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Old 22-11-2011, 19:13
TelevisionUser
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The pigis are all in a mess

Portugal
Ireland
Greece
Italy
Spain

Wheras Germany seems rich in comparison with a strong economy and
the biggest, most lucrative car industry in all of Europe.
Two world wars and blanket bombing by Britain and America, dont seem to have stopped the
economic dynamo that Germany has become.

How do they do it ? the moral and economic devastation of WW2 would have sank
any other country.. but Germany rose like a phoenix from the ashes and is now calling the
shots in Europe.

After reunification with East Germany...... Germany's population is 81.7 million
wheras France comes in at 65.4 million and UK at 62 million.
Germany is no longer the compliant, guilt ridden nation of former years, it is beginning
to flex its economic muscles at the highest levels of diplomacy...
Germany is beginning to call the shots.
Britain, now a minor military and economic power on the world scene, can only
stand on the sidelines and wring its hands as Germany takes centre stage.
The reason Germany rose from ruins like this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...athausturm.jpg was because the British and Americans give the old Federal Republic of Germany a good constitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_L...lic_of_Germany and democratic system of government, restarted up industry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vw#1945...unclear_future and America also pumped in tens of millions of dollars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshal...Implementation. That's how things turned out the way they did.
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Old 26-08-2013, 16:29
xxtimbo
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A book I read recently gave the pig pop of Britain at 8 million
and the pig pop of Germany as 34 million !

The figures have no doubt increased since the date of that book !

That's still one huge difference in numbers but then the Germans are
very fond of their wurste....
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=wu...w=1268&bih=518
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Old 26-08-2013, 17:16
onecitizen
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Think Frank Dobson once said, in the UK we're good at selling life insurance and McDonalds burgers to one another.
And yet the most productive car factory anywhere in Europe is not in Germany but in the UK, funny that. Nissan here even makes more cars than the whole of Italy. Some people whine that it isn't British owned, who cares the people working at Nissan just continue to work at being amongst the best in the world, much more important.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2...ductivity.html
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Old 26-08-2013, 18:55
Heavyhaulage49
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yes, they are bastards but they are our bastards. Without them we wouldn't be raking in the money, which we currently are.

We need the tax to be levied throughout the world, else we lose a big source of our own money.
Who is the 'we'
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Old 26-08-2013, 19:02
jcafcw
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And yet the most productive car factory anywhere in Europe is not in Germany but in the UK, funny that. Nissan here even makes more cars than the whole of Italy. Some people whine that it isn't British owned, who cares the people working at Nissan just continue to work at being amongst the best in the world, much more important.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2...ductivity.html
I think that Germany will comfort themselves by having a growing budget surplus.
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Old 26-08-2013, 19:04
John146
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And yet the most productive car factory anywhere in Europe is not in Germany but in the UK, funny that. Nissan here even makes more cars than the whole of Italy. Some people whine that it isn't British owned, who cares the people working at Nissan just continue to work at being amongst the best in the world, much more important.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2...ductivity.html
BIB Rolls Royce used to advertise that they made the best car in the world, I note that Mercedes now seem to be running that advert now...
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Old 26-08-2013, 19:10
Heavyhaulage49
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Germany has a bigger popular nation that the UK.

The UK pays in a massive amount of money into the EU and gets LESS THAN HALF OF IT BACK.

Through our payments to the EU, we are heavily subsidising the economies of a number of EU nations - including the one you are posting from (Slovenia).

DO NOT expect this to continue forever.
Have you any links to support your assertions?

One of the reasons that more money is spent on helping countries like Slovenia develop their infrastructure is that UK companies benefit from selling their expertise and services when they are doing so.
To a lesser extent we also benefit from selling goods to their developing economies, but unfortunately since we dismantled most of our industry in the 80's and 90's that role is fulfilled mostly by Germany.
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Old 26-08-2013, 19:26
onecitizen
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BIB Rolls Royce used to advertise that they made the best car in the world, I note that Mercedes now seem to be running that advert now...
Inter
estingly Rolls Royce aero engines are the second biggest
manufacturers of aero engines in the world. when you consider the UK is far from being the second biggest nation in the world its a fair old achievement, wouldn't you agree ? http://myjetreview.com/html/rolls-royce_aerospace.html
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Old 26-08-2013, 19:28
John146
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Interestingly Rolls Royce aero engines are the second biggest manufacturers of aero engines in the world. when you consider the UK is far from being the second biggest nation in the world its a fair old achievement, wouldn't you agree ?
Well yes I do, but what I don't seem to understand is that now Rolls Royce Car Division is owned by the Germans, you would think that they would promote Rolls Royce which are as far as I am concerned still the best car in the world...
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Old 26-08-2013, 20:15
edEx
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One thing I like about Germany is there seems to be a good relationship between the unions and employers. Over here it seems to be more adversarial.
They have a more collaborative approach right the way through their economic model. The banks fund their own industry, whilst ours instead look for profit in "developing markets". Employers see their role in keeping their employees happy, and the employees return the favour by ensuring they work hard. People stay in jobs longer as a result, which means German companies aren't constantly suffering Brain Drain to their competitors.

Government also works hand in hand with companies. They believe in Society and in communities, something our politicians gave up on back in the 1980s.

Their entire culture is one of working together for the success of all.
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Old 26-08-2013, 20:43
welshfoxy
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Their entire culture is one of working together for the success of all.
What a notion!
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Old 26-08-2013, 21:00
goldframedoor
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And yet the most productive car factory anywhere in Europe is not in Germany but in the UK, funny that. Nissan here even makes more cars than the whole of Italy. Some people whine that it isn't British owned, who cares the people working at Nissan just continue to work at being amongst the best in the world, much more important.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2...ductivity.html
Nice to read something positive about the UK in terms of politics for a change.
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Old 27-08-2013, 14:57
ecckles
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The pigis are all in a mess

Portugal
Ireland
Greece
Italy
Spain

Wheras Germany seems rich in comparison with a strong economy and
the biggest, most lucrative car industry in all of Europe.
Two world wars and blanket bombing by Britain and America, dont seem to have stopped the
economic dynamo that Germany has become.

How do they do it ? the moral and economic devastation of WW2 would have sank
any other country.. but Germany rose like a phoenix from the ashes and is now calling the
shots in Europe.
After reunification with East Germany...... Germany's population is 81.7 million
wheras France comes in at 65.4 million and UK at 62 million.
Germany is no longer the compliant, guilt ridden nation of former years, it is beginning
to flex its economic muscles at the highest levels of diplomacy...
Germany is beginning to call the shots.
Britain, now a minor military and economic power on the world scene, can only
stand on the sidelines and wring its hands as Germany takes centre stage.
So when are you emigrating.
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Old 27-08-2013, 19:58
goldframedoor
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So when are you emigrating.
↑↑↑↑ This!
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Old 27-08-2013, 20:08
welshfoxy
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So when are you emigrating.
Sorry, was he not stating the facts? Or is the truth only good when in the UK's favour? (lies all the way then! )
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