But how much did it gain from the EU in other ways, such as direct access to the common market (a readymade market of more than 500 million people versus a "domestic" market of less than 65 million)?


The EU is not forcing the UK to remain a member. I'd be sorry to see the UK go, as I think it is a modern, multicultural European society that adds to the continent's wonderful diversity and could act as a vital link between the rest of the EU and the US. However, the EU would certainly survive the UK's departure, especially since the UK is already more or less "semi-detached" from the rest of the EU (not being in the eurozone or in Shengen, for instance).

One thing I like about Germany is there seems to be a good relationship between the unions and employers. Over here it seems to be more adversarial.

Wrong, according to this article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_...European_Union

France and Italy both contribute less per capita.

Slovenia is a net beneficiary per capita, recieving 1443 Euros per person more than they contribute.

do you have figures from any other source, as those seem to be contested quite heavily.

I dont, but I would be interested if you have. I simply Googled and went for the first result. Wikipedia may not have the best reputation but I would doubt it would be very far out on something so heavily contested. Their references seem to be official sources - I would look into it but I am just about to go to a job.

I simply felt that the posting was wrong, given what has been in the general media over the last few years.

no worries. I'll have a look later. I've come across some good information from RabuBank before, that makes a good case for Britain being in the EU. It actually has quite a neutral tone to it all.

I'll see if I can russel them up for you, over your mid-morning coffee

Their reference is a Eurosceptic lobbying group which argues that many EU powers should be returned to the member states. If you look at the article's discussion group, many Wikipedia commenters are critical of the data and its origin. I wouldn't be surprised if the data doesn't take things like the UK rebate into account.

According to the BBC's data, France and Italy contribute more:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8036097.stm

Never mind; I see that the UK's net contribution is still bigger according to the BBC data. I wonder, however, if it takes the rebate into account?

Come on , own up, how many voted yes in the
European Common Market referendum in 1975 ?
quote
Just over 67% of voters supported the Labour government's campaign to stay in the EEC,
end quote.

that massive yes vote ensured that we stayed in the common market.
It was a trick though because as the years went by, new legislation
came out and suddenly we found ourselves locked into a political union that was taking away UK sovereignty and independence.

Very soon now we are going to have to pay the bill to support
this mad single currency and all the EU expansion that has gone on over the years.
Turkey could be the next one in... but why stop there ? lets invite
Pakistan to join ? why not ?

Shoot the messenger.


Go to your link and click the 'net by population' button......France and Italy are below the UK....



As an addendum, timbo, the referendum vote was the first ever vote I cast - I voted 'no', because I could see what it was going to become even back then.

The reason Germany rose from ruins like this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...athausturm.jpg was because the British and Americans give the old Federal Republic of Germany a good constitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_L...lic_of_Germany and democratic system of government, restarted up industry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vw#1945...unclear_future and America also pumped in tens of millions of dollars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshal...Implementation. That's how things turned out the way they did.

A book I read recently gave the pig pop of Britain at 8 million
and the pig pop of Germany as 34 million !

The figures have no doubt increased since the date of that book !

That's still one huge difference in numbers but then the Germans are
very fond of their wurste....
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=wu...w=1268&bih=518

And yet the most productive car factory anywhere in Europe is not in Germany but in the UK, funny that. Nissan here even makes more cars than the whole of Italy. Some people whine that it isn't British owned, who cares the people working at Nissan just continue to work at being amongst the best in the world, much more important.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2...ductivity.html

Who is the 'we'

I think that Germany will comfort themselves by having a growing budget surplus.

BIB Rolls Royce used to advertise that they made the best car in the world, I note that Mercedes now seem to be running that advert now...

Have you any links to support your assertions?

One of the reasons that more money is spent on helping countries like Slovenia develop their infrastructure is that UK companies benefit from selling their expertise and services when they are doing so.
To a lesser extent we also benefit from selling goods to their developing economies, but unfortunately since we dismantled most of our industry in the 80's and 90's that role is fulfilled mostly by Germany.

Inter
estingly Rolls Royce aero engines are the second biggest
manufacturers of aero engines in the world. when you consider the UK is far from being the second biggest nation in the world its a fair old achievement, wouldn't you agree ? http://myjetreview.com/html/rolls-royce_aerospace.html

Well yes I do, but what I don't seem to understand is that now Rolls Royce Car Division is owned by the Germans, you would think that they would promote Rolls Royce which are as far as I am concerned still the best car in the world...

They have a more collaborative approach right the way through their economic model. The banks fund their own industry, whilst ours instead look for profit in "developing markets". Employers see their role in keeping their employees happy, and the employees return the favour by ensuring they work hard. People stay in jobs longer as a result, which means German companies aren't constantly suffering Brain Drain to their competitors.

Government also works hand in hand with companies. They believe in Society and in communities, something our politicians gave up on back in the 1980s.

Their entire culture is one of working together for the success of all.

What a notion!

Nice to read something positive about the UK in terms of politics for a change.

So when are you emigrating.

↑↑↑↑ This!

Sorry, was he not stating the facts? Or is the truth only good when in the UK's favour? (lies all the way then! )