Does that not prove that BBC website staff just take as read whatever figures ITV's tweeters tweet to them - which of course, are all +1 inclusive?

I don't think you can say "the BBC don't have a problem" as a result of that.

Does anyone know what Angels in America got on Sky Atlantic last night?

Nope, because they most likely got that data from the BBC's own ratings data service, which as I said in my previous post, bundles +1 in with the SD figure. If the BBC had such a big problem with +1 being bundled in, I'm sure they would've ensured their own data service didn't do it. Although I'm sure there's certain personnel at the organisation who would prefer to look at the excluded +1 figures, it generally doesn't seem like they have a big problem with the reporting of included+1 figures.

Just for comparison, Corrie and Eastenders' rating with the first repeat included:

Coronation Street
7:30pm: 9.48 + 0.126 = 9.606m
8:30pm: 9.06 + 0.204 = 9.264m

Eastenders: 8.89 + 0.762 = 9.652m

Pretty decent rating for that, probably the highest for any of the documentaries that have gone out under the Wonderland banner. I used to be quite sceptical about billing these shows under individual names because I didn't see what it did that just calling it, say, The Money Programme or Cutting Edge didn't, and it just seemed to weaken the brand. But it worked here because, despite Wonderland having been running for a couple of years now, though, I don't suppose anyone knows what it is or what kind of films they do in it. It's got nowhere near the brand reputation of something like Cutting Edge or Modern Times, I wonder why they're keeping the strand going.

That said, I remember reading when Modern Times was running that they'd done some research and everyone who said they loved Cutting Edge promptly cited a load of films that were Modern Times, and vice versa.

It's a more worthwhile brand than ITV's Monday Night Thrillers, natch.

So even with the BBC3 repeat added in, EE was only 50k ahead of the Corrie figure. In the last two years, apart from big Corrie weeks, 'Enders (inc BBC3) has usually been more like 500k ahead of Corrie (exc ITV2) on a Monday night, if not more. There was even a period when EE (exc BBC3) was matching CS on a Monday. The show's going through a bit of a rough patch at the moment, having not hit 9m (10m inc BBC3) in the overnights for months, which is a bit surprising given that this is the time of the year when it normally hits its stride and gathers momentum. Less focus on the Masoods, who I think are better suited to secondary storylines whilst the Brannings and Mitchells have more screentime, and better longer running storylines bubbling under the surface to keep viewers hooked would be a good start to get figures back up IMO. Hopefully also, the Xmas and NY eps will be strong enough to tempt the casual viewers to continue watching it beyond the holiday period.

I think Wonderland tends to be films about eccentricties of British life. I believe the first film they did was the show about Norman Wisdom's son and daughter-in-law and how they helped in the twilight of his life.

It would be a brave man that would put that up against Downton as the centre piece of Christmas night the way its performing currently

Overnights as rzt says are measured up to 2am. So people aren't always watching the show in the timeslot

EastEnders is doing fine ratings wise though as it timeshifts very well these days and has a higher raing than Corrie every week.

I think the state of the show is quite healthy now. There ar great storylines running.

I think it will get a higher rating tonight.

Do you thin DA will beat EE? The good thing for EE is that even when it's gone through a bit of a rough patch, it's managed to pull in a decent/good no. of casual viewers on xmas day. I expect the same thing to happen this year too, though definitely to a smaller extent to the last few years. At the moment, I'm thinking the Mon 2nd Jan episode will be EE's highest of the holiday period. The NYD ep has a chance but I think the fact it's in an unusual slot and up against a Pottes premiere might go against it. As for Xmas Day itself, the Royle Family situation really did put a spanner in the works for them. Looking ahead to Xmas Day 2012 though, I think it's already looking very strong with an excellent set of movies available to them, as well as the possible return of both the Royles and Gavin and Stacey.

The oh so convenient failure of ITV Studios to deliver the commissioned Christmas Night centrepiece left them with little other realistic option...


"With the same night catch-up service for people without PVRs added in", I think you mean...

what sort of movies will be avaliable to them in 2012 then?

When does the key character die over New Year? On NYD or the Monday? I notice the "Farewell..." episode is on the Monday opposite Corrie at 8.30.

What about Xmas Eve, in a good 8.45pm slot, opposite the mighty Text Santa with a strong inheritance from Merlin?

I think Xmas Eve will beat Xmas Day's ep anyway.

It wasn't ''the failure of ITV studios'' it was the failure of the scriptwriters. ITV studios was not responsible for the script.Your conspiracy theories seem to be pushing you over the edge Robbie.

The clue was in the

You do keep repeating your mantra about ITV Studios which is actually quite a damaging allegation to a commercial organisation, you are implying there was some kind of conspiracy to prevent the programme being made in time. I am certain you don't have a shred of evidence to justify this libel.

Brave, perhaps. But it would have been a stupid man to put anything else there!

Going head-to-head in the 9pm junction, I think the likes of Ab Fab would have been crushed (or "trounced" as the newspapers love to say!) even with an EastEnders lead-in.

I do think Downton has a lot more going for it than any other recent ITV drama effort (ie. Doc Martin in 2006):

- Like the soaps, there are "must see" cliffhangers and ongoing story lines to be resolved.
- The show is coming quickly off the back of a highly successful series (DM had been off for a year).
- The press attention lavished on it is / will be beyond any previous ITV Christmas show.
- The period setting and soapy style lends itself to a Christmas special very nicely indeed.
- EE is not in the greatest ratings shape - and I doubt the Christmas storyline has vast appeal for the casual or lapsed viewer.

I think it could well retain it's Corrie lead-in at a sort of 8ish million level. And of course will time shift like an express train after that. Maybe not enough to match 9-10m overnights for EastEnders, but could be there or thereabouts come the finals.

If I had to predict the overnights I'd say Downton 9m; EastEnders 9.5m; BBC1 10pm hour 5-6m

Do you know what BBC1 put on against The Morecambe and Wise Christmas Show on Christmas Day 1978, the year M&W defected to Thames? True Grit, a Further Adventure a film specially made for TV.

True Grit, a Further Adventure!!!

At 8.45pm on Christmas Night.


True Grit, a Further Adventure.


True Grit, a Further Adventure.

At 8.45pm on Christmas Night. WTF!!!

So not beyond BBC1 to roll over and play dead against ITV on Christmas night. And as everyone at the BBC seems to think Downton Abbey is the greatest invention ever in the history of mankind, the BBC fans on the thread should consider it fortunate the BBC haven't opted for something similar in the same slot this year.

I love True Grit. The remake should be available for Christmas 2012

Yes, ITV1 might want to show it on Christmas Day at 9pm to avoid another homegrown drama humiliation.


Here are the details of the TV movie in question...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078422/

Maybe it was the first in a season of films starring Warren Oates.




True Grit, a Further Adventure!!!!!

Quite. That's George's big grouse this xmas, that the BBC didn't roll over, put EE in the 7pm slot kindly allotted to it by ITV, and air Ab Fab and Macintyre at 9pm and 9.30pm respectively.

As for the t-word, given how a mere few hundred thou gap is enough to merit its use in some tabloids, I can well see "DOWNTON TROUNCED!" making the headlines on Monday 27th - even if it gets a perfectly respectable 8m overnight to 9m for EE and adds 3m catch-ups in the 7 days thereafter.

The reputational damage, however, will by then have been done...

I have to say that does rather trip off the tongue as a headline, so I hope they get to use it.

On the discussion regarding Foyle's War earlier.

They 'ran out of war' as it was rushed through because the show was given notice. Mistake by ITV as the writer wanted to go more slowly.

I read somewhere recently that he has said there will be a new series in 2012 and it will be post war,

A storyline will involve going to America chasing a war criminal and will be a sequel to an earlier wartime episode.

Just checked and Anthony Horowitz the Foyle's War creator confirmed on Twitter on 7 Nov that a new series is coming in 2012.