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Performers who shock Vs those who try to but just look desperate. |
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#1 |
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Performers who shock Vs those who try to but just look desperate.
There was a news item about John Lydon recently. It was about The Sex Pistols former home, where they practised, and contains graffiti on the walls by Lydon. Academics want to preserve it for the nation as a site of cultural importance
Here's an article about it. Why the affection for the former Johnny Rotten? I think it's partly due to the Sex Pistols ability to shock. Long gone are the days when rock'n'roll was shocking in itself. Shocking the audience is all part of the performance, and the ability to do this well is admired."Shocking" is also easy to get wrong. Another headline grabber has been Rihanna, on the front page of the Mirror for wearing shoes with "F#@k off" on them on the X-factor. Or something. Even the mirror looked like it was going through the motions of outrage. I find it interesting this shocking business, so I've made two lists, of performers who shock and those who try but fail. Feel free to add more! The Truely Shocking: The Rolling Stones: You had to lock up your daughters when the Stones were around. Apparently. The Sex Pistols: Who else could get a single "banned" from No.1 for being too controversial! Madonna: "Like a Virgin". Madonna protested she was singing about feeling like a virgin. Unfortunately she didn't look much like one. "Papa Don't Preach". Was it about the Pope? Rumours of excommunication abounded. The Red Hot Chili Peppers: Pure Socks! NWA: Late 80's rap group Niggaz With Attitude got banned from radio in America a lot, but still sold loads due to notoriety. Eminem: First toured Britain waving a chainsaw around on stage which seemed to make the sexism accusations worse. L7: All female grunge band who could teach Madonna a thing or two about getting her muff out in public. Britney Spears: Iconic school girl pop video. Claimed to be choreographed by herself, also claimed to be a virgin. Amy Winehouse: sang about Fcuk Me Pumps, carpet burns and refusing to go to rehab. And she meant every word. Desperate Tryhards: Sigue Sigue Sputnik: Silly punk band who looked as though were in fancy dress. Madonna: Erotica: very unerotic album. The "Sex" book: featuring Madonna standing in front of a window with no pants on:yawn::yawn: Christina Aguilera: Dirrty: Xtina dessperate to be as controversial as Britney. Pussy Cat Dolls: Started off well with the flirty "Don't Cha?", but carried on with lots of similar songs and ended up looking empty headed rather than sexy. Rihanna: Oh dear. But she's probably made a lot of money. I think the rule is, you've got to look genuine, once an artist tries to shock, then they don't. |
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#2 |
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Rihanna is very relevant to this thread, she stinks of desperation these days. Trying anything to be shocking.
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#3 |
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There's a lot of stuff about Rihanna now, and I would put her in the ''try-hard'' section.:sleep:
I wouldn't put Erotica/The SEX Book there though. People were, quite clearly, shocked at the time, and it caused a shit storm. Same goes for her performance of Vogue at VMAs 1990, the Justify My Love video, etc. |
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#4 |
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Quote:
There's a lot of stuff about Rihanna now, and I would put her in the ''try-hard'' section.:sleep:
I wouldn't put Erotica/The SEX Book there though. People were, quite clearly, shocked at the time, and it caused a shit storm. Same goes for her performance of Vogue at VMAs 1990, the Justify My Love video, etc. |
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#5 |
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Prince! He wasn't exactly shocking, he didn't set out to shock, but he was provocative. Rihanna looks as though she's adopted a persona, her image doesn't look like it's really her.
TaTu, the fake Russian schoolgirl lesbians had some success, before they admitted they wern't really lesbians. Also helped by Richard and Judy calling for them to be banned. A radio ban also helped Frankie Goes to Holywood. Remember them? Caused outrage with Relax (i.e. Don't do it, when you want to come). In 1984 everyone was wearing white T-shirts with RELAX on the front! Madonna's Erotica/Sex book/Justify my Love video may have caused a shit storm, but people were also noting she was trying too hard to shock and wasn't shocking like she used to do. She followed this up with "Bedtime Stories" and I think sang a song about being "I'm not Sorry"...except you could tell she was really. Christina's album following Dirrty seemed like her version of "Bedtime Stories", as well |
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#6 |
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Amy Winehouse's **** me pumps was tongue n cheek. It wasn't meant to be taken serious. Listen to the song carefully and it's clear Amy is having a bit of dig at certain Women.
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#7 |
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The x factor alumni vs the pop world :P. But in all seriousness for me it has to be (though i'm a big fan of all his work) i want your sex vs anything by prince.
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#8 |
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Quote:
Madonna's Erotica/Sex book/Justify my Love video may have caused a shit storm, but people were also noting she was trying too hard to shock and wasn't shocking like she used to do. She followed this up with "Bedtime Stories" and I think sang a song about being "I'm not Sorry"...except you could tell she was really.
I think you mean "Human Nature", and I don't see how anyone could tell she was sorry. She just dusted herself off and did something else. She's never expressed any regret for that period of her career. |
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#9 |
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It was the biggest controversy of her career, after only Like a Prayer. When Justify My Love was banned by MTV it was just as big, if not bigger.
I think you mean "Human Nature", and I don't see how anyone could tell she was sorry. She just dusted herself off and did something else. She's never expressed any regret for that period of her career. |
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#10 |
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Shock:
Little Richard (first male star to openly wear makeup and be brazenly homosexual) The Velvet Underground (first band to focus on literary, hard drugs and fetishistic themes) Jim Morrison Iggy Pop (electrocuted himself with telephone wires and cut himself with broken glass on stage) Richard Hell (McLaren stole his image and dressed the Sex Pistols up as it) Prince (sang songs about incest, blowjobs and converting lesbians to heterosexuality way before he even bothered the charts) GG Allin (nothing needs to be said) Mark E. Smith (openly hates everyone) Kate Bush ('shocking' in the fact that she hasn't toured since 1979, and that is an extremely provocative act in itself) Madonna (before 2003 anyway) Courtney Love Try hards: Rihanna (I have no doubt she is a brazenly sexual person but a little variation would be nice) Lady Gaga (she can be controversial, but Judas was such a pathetically hyped attempt to be provocative and falled flat on its arse because literally nothing about it was shocking or envelope pushing artistically or musically) Morrissey (again, can be controversial, but some of his deliberate comments are just bitter and pathetic - "I don't care about the Norway massacre when animals are massacred at Mcdonalds" oh shut up) Taylor Momsen |
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#11 |
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The thing about the 'shockers' is that they can be as outrageous as they can but if there is no underlying talent they will sooner or later be relegated to being a minor footnote in the history of popular music. I think that is where John Lydon would be if it weren't for his later PIL work, which is often brilliant.
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#12 |
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She may not have regretted it but let's face it, it was a bit desperate the album was okay but there was nothing erotic about it only song with an iota of sentiment was bad girl with probably the best most toned down video.
![]() I think a lot of people were expecting this Marilyn-esque style, which she had been rocking in the previous years. I don't think people understood that she wasn't pandering to a male or mainstream audience. |
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#13 |
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I think anyone who tries to shock (and lets face it, everyone in this thread TRIED to shock) comes across as desperate.
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#14 |
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Anyone who tries to shock comes across as desperate? Another argument therefore would be that non of these performers are shocking, the only controversy comes from what people choose to find shocking. Quote:
Lady Gaga (she can be controversial, but Judas was such a pathetically hyped attempt to be provocative and falled flat on its arse because literally nothing about it was shocking or envelope pushing artistically or musically)
That's what it's all about, being innovative, doing something different, pushing the boundaries. This, combined with talent musically will mean the performance will be remembered, in time become accepted, mainstream, even. That's why I included Amy Winehouse on the list, not because of outrageousness, her music and lyrics raised an eyebrow, was different, original. |
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#15 |
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But when did she claim she was trying to be sexy?
![]() I think a lot of people were expecting this Marilyn-esque style, which she had been rocking in the previous years. I don't think people understood that she wasn't pandering to a male or mainstream audience. |
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#16 |
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Well Erotic Doesn't mean Overtly sexual lPrince is an Erotic Artist, As was Janet Jacksons Janet, Madonna with that album was trying to push the envelope by being sexually provocative and adventurous instead it turned out to be a cold calculating move that just did not work and after justify my love people saw Erotica coming and sadly for her it was desperate not shocking and how can you say she was not pandering to male Audience teenage boys the world over were hitting the replay button on her video's in which she is all but doing the entire cast and seems allergiv to clothing bad phase in her carer.
. Mind you, it doesn't take much to upset the Americans, and Madonna knew that.Quote:
Little Richard (first male star to openly wear makeup and be brazenly homosexual)
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#17 |
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Okay superbowl was a mistake but the Janet album especially anytime anyplace was sexy and shocking what about Freddie Mercury shocking or just flmaboyant.
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#18 |
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The thing about the 'shockers' is that they can be as outrageous as they can but if there is no underlying talent they will sooner or later be relegated to being a minor footnote in the history of popular music. I think that is where John Lydon would be if it weren't for his later PIL work, which is often brilliant.
However you also have to take in to account the media in all of this as they are more than happy to be complicit and will rarely let the truth get in the way of a good story. Alice Cooper has said he owes a massive debt of gratitude to Mary Whitehouse in the UK, as she was "outraged" at what she assumed his stage act was like. Obviously these people never take the trouble to find out for themselves, and the ensuing publicity guaranteed a sell-out tour. The same with the Sex Pistols. If Bill Grundy hasn't goaded them in TV they wouldn't have been as notorious as they ended up. |
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#19 |
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I've heard people speak highly of PIL. But "Nevermind the Bollocks..." still sells and "God Save the Queen" and "Anarchy in the UK" are great tunes.
The passage of time and hindsight have been kind to the Sex Pistols. Yes, they relied on attention seeking, but they the furore they created was handled more cleverly than people realised at the time. Especially the Bill Grundy TV appearance. Grundy wanted to show up the assembled punks on the programme as mindless boors, but he messed it up, and John Lydon in particular got the better of him. People gradually realised Lydon wasn't stupid, he's got his own style and eccentric wittiness. You can look back at the Sex Pistols and see that actually, they put on a good show (in terms of the media and their image, at least, even if Sex Pistols actual shows, their concerts, weren't up to much). |
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#20 |
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Erotica, an album about not "being" erotic....but a journey of self discovery and love!
I think the main controversy was about Madonna daring to sing about seduction, love, romance, and different forms of love when the AIDS epidemic was so fresh. As an era i feel that (by this thread) some people feel it was "try hard" but in reality it is possibly one of the most shockingly controversial era in music! I mean if you wanna create controversy....Erotica was the way to do it. Musically it is a masterpeice IMO...the Jazz/Soul/House/Lounge sounds and direction and lyrically so very powerful....i dont know people knew how to react. As for try hards it is debateable for RIhanna and gaga today....they are "try hard" but tbh they are the only ones causing something of a stir....but no one really IS in Pop today! |
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#21 |
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Anyone who named Christina Aguilera...so, so wrong. I think Christina shocks by default through her constant reinvention and refusal to meet people's expectations and conceptions of her rather than consciously aiming to shock. People see it has purposefully shocking because she commits to her visions so completely and so people think she takes things too far for the sake of it.
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#22 |
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Anyone who named Christina Aguilera...so, so wrong. I think Christina shocks by default through her constant reinvention and refusal to meet people's expectations and conceptions of her rather than consciously aiming to shock. People see it has purposefully shocking because she commits to her visions so completely and so people think she takes things too far for the sake of it.
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#23 |
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Janet Jackson's "accidental" titty slip reeked of desperation. She's been desperate ever since in terms of trying to claw back a successful music career.
Grace Jones pushed a few buttons in the '80s that never came across desperate but rather to push boundaries and experiment. The Erotica era was when people had seemingly had enough of Madonna and her ability to shock. I guess you could say that she's never really been as controversial on that level since. Saying that, I have personally never felt Madonna to be desperate. She does things on her terms and likes to experiment and push boundaries in music and for women in music. It's come to be expected from her now and people wait to see what she's going to do next. Surely if she built her career purely on desperation it would have died back in the '80s. Madonna has always had the goods to back it up and that is her music. |
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#24 |
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Janet Jackson's "accidental" titty slip reeked of desperation. She's been desperate ever since in terms of trying to claw back a successful music career.
Grace Jones pushed a few buttons in the '80s that never came across desperate but rather to push boundaries and experiment. The Erotica era was when people had seemingly had enough of Madonna and her ability to shock. I guess you could say that she's never really been as controversial on that level since. Saying that, I have personally never felt Madonna to be desperate. She does things on her terms and likes to experiment and push boundaries in music and for women in music. It's come to be expected from her now and people wait to see what she's going to do next. Surely if she built her career purely on desperation it would have died back in the '80s. Madonna has always had the goods to back it up and that is her music. Also interesting what you say about Ms Jones there. People i think wrote her off for being "shocking" in such a way she was back then but we look back and see she paved a way for being left-of-centre in appearence. ANd 100% agree with Madonna. She shocks and rocks it you know. Ever since she donned the Boy Toy Belt we all knew that she would be an absolutely effortlessly skilled button pusher. Her music also pushed the boundaries too lyrically. When you have artists today that dont get beyond a "shocking" wardrobe, the music doesnt match the style. Whereas Madonna...specifically from 1989 through to 1994 really hit controversial heights you know. Incorporating such sexual, religious subtexts within her work...her androgyny her style and eprformance as well as lyrics and context. Never forced or contrived in such a way....but misunderstood. Also i would say AMerican Life was the most controversial body of work since Erotica really....mainly due to the political environment at the time and Bush....her idea of War As Fashion Show, Media Attacking, Americans Stuck In The Past.....it really is a bold statement love the album or not really...also a massive risk at that point in her career too. And with the Super Bowl coming up....that too is such a massive risk, I mean one of the worlds biggest ever musicians/entertainers on one of the worlds biggest events seems like a marriage....but still no one knows what Madonna will perform...it will be shocking and i cannot wait. ![]()
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#25 |
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totally disagree with the christina aguilera desperation comments. her first album had sold bucket loads and she had amassed more number 1's than britney. the "slave 4 u" video was not that provocative and peaked at 27 on billboard surely if it were a copycat tactic they would have purposely avoided "shock" tactics.
the dirrty video was a big slap in the face and is probably the most provocative female video of all time, she totally car crashed her career after this song in the states and didnt even care as she then proceeded to release a video full of taboo containing lgbt characters and everything that would cause those in the usa to recoil. bare in mind when the beautiful video was released in 2003, there was no push for gay rights, she was the first person in popular culture to just throw her neck on the line for equality like that. also it was a smart move later replicated by gaga - have a universal song thats message at heart is actually more specific so people only realise after they buy it or see the music video etc. the whole stripped album was about self expression and admitting to your past etc moving on and being who you are and it was truly from the heart, i remember being young when it came out but i swear that album changed youth culture in britain more than people realise! |
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. Mind you, it doesn't take much to upset the Americans, and Madonna knew that.