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Old 26-11-2011, 22:32
wavejockglw
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Just bought some credit for a secondary phone and 60 mins to any UK phone + 300 SMS is good for £5 - you get free calls and SMS to giffgaff too and 1 minute extra calling credit when you recieve calls.

£10 buys 250 mins to any UK numbers, unlimited SMS and totally unlinited Internet plus free calls and SMS to giffgaff numbers.

Great coverage on the Telefonica/02 Network.

There are other deals offering more minutes etc and some data plans.

Good deal?
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Old 26-11-2011, 22:41
Thine Wonk
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They do seem to be the cheapest, unless you are an incredibly light user who only spends a few pounds a month. If you are looking for a very cheap PAYG deal then they seem to be the best.
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Old 26-11-2011, 23:11
wavejockglw
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Not tried the data yet. Only bought some credit for a secondary phone for occasional voice and SMS use to folks I don't want to share my main numvber with (as I use it for work).

Looking at the deals I could be convinced to save some money when my contract expires and hold onto my current phone using a giffgaff SIM as I can port my number. The £10 a month would save me £20 each month and would more than cater for my voice/SMS/Internet needs. Fortunately my contact phone is with Vodafone and they don't lock their contract handsets so it would be easy to make the change pocket the £20 a month and save up for an updated Smartphone with the savings.
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Old 27-11-2011, 06:26
moox
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But with Giffgaff you get the same pathetic network reliability, and utterly piss poor 3G coverage that O2 offers - just at an lower price and with next to no customer service when O2 has their latest weekly outage.
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Old 27-11-2011, 08:43
wavejockglw
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02 has the highest levels of customer satisfaction in the UK and as I am using giffgaff for voice and text presently the 3g coverage is not an issue. If I move to it for my smartphone it won't be an issue either as I spend 99.99% of my time in cities where 02 has plenty of 3G coverage some of which is at 900Mhz and can penetrate into buildings far better than any other network's signals can presently. Only Vodafone has the option of offering something similar and others will have to wait until 2013/14 to provide lower frequency coverage if they win the available bandwidth to be auctioned.
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Old 27-11-2011, 10:06
eypon
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02 has the highest levels of customer satisfaction in the UK and as I am using giffgaff for voice and text presently the 3g coverage is not an issue. If I move to it for my smartphone it won't be an issue either as I spend 99.99% of my time in cities where 02 has plenty of 3G coverage some of which is at 900Mhz and can penetrate into buildings far better than any other network's signals can presently. Only Vodafone has the option of offering something similar and others will have to wait until 2013/14 to provide lower frequency coverage if they win the available bandwidth to be auctioned.
Ahh ok so thats why i only get vodafone in my flat and not o2 three/orange/t-mobile due to 900mhz?
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Old 27-11-2011, 11:16
Padre
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Ahh ok so thats why i only get vodafone in my flat and not o2 three/orange/t-mobile due to 900mhz?
Nicely done picking a bit of a post and ignoring the rest. The poster did say "some of which is at 900Mhz". Seems that your not covered by 900Mhz.

I am covered by 900Mhz and can get a signal in my house when no other network can penetrate. So for me giffgaff/O2 is the best option.
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Old 27-11-2011, 11:49
TheBigM
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The talk mobile SIMO deals are pretty good too.
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Old 27-11-2011, 11:54
eypon
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Nicely done picking a bit of a post and ignoring the rest. The poster did say "some of which is at 900Mhz". Seems that your not covered by 900Mhz.

I am covered by 900Mhz and can get a signal in my house when no other network can penetrate. So for me giffgaff/O2 is the best option.
Yeah 900mhz is not here a part from vodafone hopefully that will change and i can switch to giffgaff.
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Old 27-11-2011, 12:29
wilt
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For very light usage (ie. not using a bundle), the Tesco Mobile Lite Tariff is cheaper.
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Old 27-11-2011, 12:37
moox
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Yeah 900mhz is not here a part from vodafone hopefully that will change and i can switch to giffgaff.
O2 already uses 900MHz across the country for 2G - so surely you'd be getting coverage from them already (O2's 2G coverage is excellent).

Is the Vodafone signal also 3G? I thought it was only O2 who planned to roll out 3G on 900MHz in any sort of scale - although "scale" for O2 is quite different from anyone else, as their 3G coverage leaves a lot to be desired.
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Old 27-11-2011, 12:40
moox
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Only Vodafone has the option of offering something similar and others will have to wait until 2013/14 to provide lower frequency coverage if they win the available bandwidth to be auctioned.
Some operators already offer superior 3G coverage to Vodafone and O2 - namely T-Mobile/Three, whose 2100MHz network is leagues ahead.

I live in a sparsely populated bit of England and I get a 3G signal almost anywhere I go. It has got to the point (for data - i.e. my laptop) where I turn off 2G as it just isn't needed. The planned upgrades to 21Mbit HSPA are also a first (for the UK).

Vodafone and O2 meanwhile have utterly shocking 3G coverage - you have to be very much in the town or city centres to get anything, and even then performance isn't that good.
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Old 27-11-2011, 13:11
wavejockglw
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Vodafone and O2 meanwhile have utterly shocking 3G coverage - you have to be very much in the town or city centres to get anything, and even then performance isn't that good.
A rather sweeping statement that ignores the fact that different areas have very different coverage by all of the operators.

Where I stay Vodafone has the fastest 3G available and 3 has the slowest and I bet that is the same in many other places. 02 have 900Mhz 3G available and in towns they will reach places where no 2100Mhz will cover.

Strange that the most satisfied and least complaining customers (22.2 million of them at last count) of any network are on one of those described above!
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Old 27-11-2011, 13:17
Thine Wonk
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I wonder how long they will be able to keep up those very cheap deals though, especially now Telefonica are making a loss.

This quarter last year they made 5bn euro, in contrasts to this year where they made a 429m euro loss.

This is in part due to making redundancies and paying off the Spanish unions at 2.7bn Euro, however that only accounts for 1/2 of the losses.

A lot more pressure will be on them now they aren't making money, can they still afford those crazy PAYG deals on Giffgaff that nobody else in the industry offers and that surely must be loss making.

Are they really going to be able to afford to invest in the network to bring the 3G coverage up to that of their rivals.

Their German network has admitted suffering big capacity issues in cities with 'overloads' and a network meltdown, they are banking on a 6 figure investment to fix that. Will the parent company give them the money they need when they are under financial pressure.

When they suffered overload problems in London in 2009 they imposed data caps for all O2 customers. Will they have the money to invest in this "unlimited for a tenner" strategy, time will tell I guess.

I think GG only has about 150,000 customers, so I don't suppose it's an issue right now.
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Old 27-11-2011, 13:39
moox
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A rather sweeping statement that ignores the fact that different areas have very different coverage by all of the operators.
Applies to where I live. But we only have to look at coverage maps to see that it isn't far off for the entire country.

Where I stay Vodafone has the fastest 3G available and 3 has the slowest and I bet that is the same in many other places. 02 have 900Mhz 3G available and in towns they will reach places where no 2100Mhz will cover.
You're comparing performance with frequency band. Not comparable.

Strange that the most satisfied and least complaining customers (22.2 million of them at last count) of any network are on one of those described above!
Maybe 3G coverage is not high on their agenda and they enjoy slow 3G where it exists otherwise GPRS. I know I couldn't. Considering the number of people who persist in using low quality ISPs (which strangely is one thing O2 actually does well) simply because they are cheap, popularity and satisfaction are not necessarily the best thing to crow about.
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Old 27-11-2011, 13:45
wavejockglw
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I wonder how long they will be able to keep up those very cheap deals though, especially now Telefonica are making a loss.

This quarter last year they made 5bn euro, in contrasts to this year where they made a 429m euro loss.

Are they really going to be able to afford to invest in the network to bring the 3G coverage up to that of their rivals.
By my reckoning Telefonica can afford to loose €500 million if they made €5000 million profit in a single quarter in the previous year! Sometimes it makes business sense to post a loss occasionaly

That aside 02 have stated they are spending heavily on network investment in the UK and have been spending 1 million a day for some time upgrading. They must be doing something right or they would not be winning big commercial contracts for 1000s of accounts and coming top of the chart for customer satisfaction and least complaints. Is'nt 02 who have just started a major experimental LTE/4G experiment in Central London.

The only network operator in the UK to have raised the issue of network capacity is 3. 3 also have the most complaints to Ofcom and the least satisfied customers in the latest survey. Tthat has been the case for some years. From Ofcom: "Three continued to deal with a higher proportion of complaints and faults, largely driven by reception issues and received lower than average customer service satisfaction." http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/2011/1...vels-revealed/

Hutchison Whampoa won't detail what they have spent on 3 UK to date but it's more than £10 billion and they have made a return of just a few million so far! That won't stop them competing I'm sure as they won't get anything like what they have spent through a sale of the business.
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Old 27-11-2011, 13:50
Thine Wonk
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By my reckoning Telefonica can afford to loose €500 million if they made €5000 million profit in a single quarter in the previous year! Sometimes it makes business sense to post a loss occasionaly

That aside 02 have stated they are spending heavily on network investment in the UK and have been spending 1 million a day for some time upgrading. They must be doing something right or they would not be winning big commercial contracts for 1000s of accounts and coming top of the chart for customer satisfaction and least complaints. Is'nt 02 who have just started a major experimental LTE/4G experiment in Central London.

The only network operator in the UK to have raised the issue of network capacity is 3. 3 also have the most complaints to Ofcom and the least satisfied customers in the latest survey. Tthat has been the case for some years. From Ofcom: "Three continued to deal with a higher proportion of complaints and faults, largely driven by reception issues and received lower than average customer service satisfaction." http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/2011/1...vels-revealed/

Hutchison Whampoa won't detail what they have spent on 3 UK to date but it's more than £10 billion and they have made a return of just a few million so far! That won't stop them competing I'm sure as they won't get anything like what they have spent through a sale of the business.
Not true, back in 2009 O2 had major capacity issues and made a statement to the city / apology to shareholders. They had a series of 6 outages in 6 months and major capacity issues in London. That's why they introduced a cap on their data plans. They are now seeing the same issue on O2 in Germany.

Three are the only network to have talked about it openly as a future prospect, which means they may have to stop unlimited plans in 2012 and 2013 until LTE, O2 never mentioned anything in advance to customers, it just happened and caused considerable reliability issues with network crashes and users being unable to use data or make / receive calls.
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Old 27-11-2011, 13:50
MGS4SnakeRulez
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I have giffgaff. No problems at all I always have full signal etc
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Old 27-11-2011, 13:53
wavejockglw
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Applies to where I live. But we only have to look at coverage maps to see that it isn't far off for the entire country.



You're comparing performance with frequency band. Not comparable.



Maybe 3G coverage is not high on their agenda and they enjoy slow 3G where it exists otherwise GPRS. I know I couldn't. Considering the number of people who persist in using low quality ISPs (which strangely is one thing O2 actually does well) simply because they are cheap, popularity and satisfaction are not necessarily the best thing to crow about.
Comparing 3 and Vodafone network performance where I live is totally valid. Both are using the same technology within the same frequency range (2100Mhz UMTS). Only 02 use 900Mhz UMTS presently, all the rest use 2100Mhz and 3 had the most bandwidth of any single network (T-Mobile and Orange have more since they merged).

The coverage maps tell you that it's 02 and Vodafone that are most likely to have a usable signal for mobile communications across the UK. Thats why public services and major businesses choose them. As for 3G 02 has less coverage in terms of area but they have managed to satisfy loads of customers including Apple who selected them to partner with to launch the iPhone which relies heavily on data.

I'm sure anyone can have issues with any network in some places but overall 02 seems to deliver according to the surveys published by the telecoms regulator. They have not been doing badly attracting and keeping customers either if one considers that a measure of folks satisfaction with their offering.
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Old 27-11-2011, 13:57
moox
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s'nt 02 who have just started a major experimental LTE/4G experiment in Central London.
And Everything Everywhere in partnership with BT and Ofcom are playing with LTE in mid Cornwall. Your point?

Still, LTE will be another technology that O2 will barely roll out. They can't even manage to get a 3G network up and running that works for more than 5 minutes and has any sort of coverage.

That aside 02 have stated they are spending heavily on network investment in the UK and have been spending 1 million a day for some time upgrading.
Playing catch up to everyone else isn't something you should be shouting on about.

They must be doing something right or they would not be winning big commercial contracts for 1000s of accounts and coming top of the chart for customer satisfaction and least complaints.
I'm surprised you didn't go for full marks and name "Sky".

The only network operator in the UK to have raised the issue of network capacity is 3. 3 also have the most complaints to Ofcom and the least satisfied customers in the latest survey. Tthat has been the case for some years. From Ofcom: "Three continued to deal with a higher proportion of complaints and faults, largely driven by reception issues and received lower than average customer service satisfaction." http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/2011/1...vels-revealed/
Reception and performance are separate issues so I don't know why you keep mixing them up. It also isn't clear what the reception issues with 3 are - they have issues when it comes to subpar 3G coverage getting priority over 2G roaming due to the way roaming works. 3's coverage is great but not as good as the 2G coverage of any other network.

Hutchison Whampoa won't detail what they have spent on 3 UK to date but it's more than £10 billion and they have made a return of just a few million so far! That won't stop them competing I'm sure as they won't get anything like what they have spent through a sale of the business.
I think you'll find none of the networks have really made any money out of 3G, because the then government decided to take as much money as possible rather than let it be invested in infrastructure.
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Old 27-11-2011, 14:01
Thine Wonk
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Comparing 3 and Vodafone network performance where I live is totally valid. Both are using the same technology within the same frequency range (2100Mhz UMTS). Only 02 use 900Mhz UMTS presently, all the rest use 2100Mhz and 3 had the most bandwidth of any single network (T-Mobile and Orange have more since they merged).

The coverage maps tell you that it's 02 and Vodafone that are most likely to have a usable signal for mobile communications across the UK. Thats why public services and major businesses choose them. As for 3G 02 has less coverage in terms of area but they have managed to satisfy loads of customers including Apple who selected them to partner with to launch the iPhone which relies heavily on data.

I'm sure anyone can have issues with any network in some places but overall 02 seems to deliver according to the surveys published by the telecoms regulator. They have not been doing badly attracting and keeping customers either if one considers that a measure of folks satisfaction with their offering.
And then de-selected them after a series of widespread network crashes in 2009 just as the exclusivity deal was coming up for renewal.

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/12/...es-uk-partner/

http://chrismarshall.ws/o2-to-lose-i...etwork-crashes

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...across-UK.html

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3b911fd4-f...#axzz1eukH0xeh

http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/807441-o...ones-dont-work

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/29/o2_apology/

It was a bad time for them back from July '09 to December '09 they suffered many outages due to capacity and made a public apology to shareholders.
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Old 27-11-2011, 14:03
wavejockglw
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Not true, back in 2009 O2 had major capacity issues and made a statement to the city / apology to shareholders. They had a series of 6 outages in 6 months and major capacity issues in London. That's why they introduced a cap on their data plans. They are now seeing the same issue on O2 in Germany.

Having read what has been posted it's true 02 had issues with iPhone capacity in 2009 but it's 2011 now and the issues seem to have been corrected to the extent that 02 is still rated as the network where most customers are satisfied and which produced the least complaints to Ofcom.

It's not hard to find outages and issues with ALL of the networks. The statistics prove that customers are highly satisfied with 02 despite some failings. I bet the network with the wooden spoon for customer service and the most complaints to Ofcom would love to be in the same position!
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Old 27-11-2011, 14:04
moox
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Comparing 3 and Vodafone network performance where I live is totally valid. Both are using the same technology within the same frequency range (2100Mhz UMTS). Only 02 use 900Mhz UMTS presently, all the rest use 2100Mhz and 3 had the most bandwidth of any single network (T-Mobile and Orange have more since they merged).
That isn't what I said - I said "frequency band and network performance". They are not comparable. The bit quoted also moves the goalposts again as you are then saying you compared 3 and Vodafone performance.

The coverage maps tell you that it's 02 and Vodafone that are most likely to have a usable signal for mobile communications across the UK. Thats why public services and major businesses choose them. As for 3G 02 has less coverage in terms of area but they have managed to satisfy loads of customers including Apple who selected them to partner with to launch the iPhone which relies heavily on data.
The 3G coverage maps, which is what I was suggesting in the original post, tell me that O2 is next to useless if you want to have any sort of 3G coverage.

What public services use O2? Are you referring to Airwave, the TETRA network once owned by O2 but now owned by a bank? The network that O2 built that doesn't work in the Underground and had issues during 7/7?

Some businesses use O2, others use other networks. I fail to see your point. Businesses don't always choose who is technically superior, but who is cheapest and/or gives the most sweeteners like free phones.

I don't know why Apple went with O2 - probably O2 was prepared to give them more money rather than keep it and spend it doing something worthwhile like fixing their shoddy network. Must be why they keep having outages, more so during the dark era when the iPhone was O2 exclusive.

Then again this was the Apple that originally thought that "apps" delivered through a web browser would be the best thing to do, and that no one needed multitasking or many other features. Apple aren't always right you know.

I'm sure anyone can have issues with any network in some places but overall 02 seems to deliver according to the surveys published by the telecoms regulator. They have not been doing badly attracting and keeping customers either if one considers that a measure of folks satisfaction with their offering.
I refer back to my point about people staying with low quality ISPs mostly because of price rather than service or anything else.
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Old 27-11-2011, 14:16
wavejockglw
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I refer back to my point about people staying with low quality ISPs mostly because of price rather than service or anything else.
Indeed but in 02's case I don't think they could fool the numbers that have chosen to use them for as long as they have. They have been the biggest success in terms of mobile operators in the UK and getting to that point is not based on luck alone or millions of individuals getting poor service and just making do with it.

02 have been the sherwdest of the UK networks and their strategy has been the most successful by any measurement you care to make.
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Old 27-11-2011, 14:22
eypon
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O2 already uses 900MHz across the country for 2G - so surely you'd be getting coverage from them already (O2's 2G coverage is excellent).

Is the Vodafone signal also 3G? I thought it was only O2 who planned to roll out 3G on 900MHz in any sort of scale - although "scale" for O2 is quite different from anyone else, as their 3G coverage leaves a lot to be desired.
I get full signal HSDPA with vodafone but like 1 bar of 2G if i switch to it.

I get 2G/no signal with three and everyone else excluding o2 where i may get 1 bar of 3G in my bedroom
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