[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

Having read what has been posted it's true 02 had issues with iPhone capacity in 2009 but it's 2011 now and the issues seem to have been corrected to the extent that 02 is still rated as the network where most customers are satisfied and which produced the least complaints to Ofcom.

It's not hard to find outages and issues with ALL of the networks. The statistics prove that customers are highly satisfied with 02 despite some failings. I bet the network with the wooden spoon for customer service and the most complaints to Ofcom would love to be in the same position!

Nice EDIT, originally your post said "To believe the above I would need some reference to the 'statement'."

You then edited it.

Your reference to TETRA doesn't really stand because the project was never awarded to O2, it was awarded to BT, who in turn passed it on to O2.

The commons select committee recently said of the Tetra system which was built out by O2.

Quote:

The system has been controversial because its implementation has been delayed. Communication was identified as a key failing during the reaction to the 7/7 attacks, when terrorists killed 52 people in London. The emergency services lost radio contact with each other underground and doctors were unsure which hospitals to send casualties to.

But research by the London assembly's 7/7 review committee suggests the system is erratic in certain buildings because of metal in the infrastructure. Researchers have been told that the radios won't even work in some police stations and in some retail outlets.

Customer service is only 1 part of it, if you ask people why they join a network it could be voice coverage, 3G coverage, customer service, price etc.

O2 doesn't win on price, it doesn't win on 3G coverage.

It does on 2G and on customer service. It is down to what is important for the individual.

Currently Three is the fastest growing network in the UK. I'm sure with that comes it's own difficulties.

[wavejockglw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Nice EDIT, originally your post said "To believe the above I would need some reference to the 'statement'."

You then edited it.

Your reference to TETRA doesn't really stand because the project was never awarded to O2, it was awarded to BT, who in turn passed it on to O2.

The commons select committee recently said of the Tetra system which was built out by O2.

Firstly I edit to take account of new evidence which would have been good to have in the first place!

Secondly I never mentioned TETRA! I mentioned public services of which there are many and the most widely used standard mobile phone networks by those are 02 and Vodafone because of their coverage.

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

Having read what has been posted it's true 02 had issues with iPhone capacity in 2009 but it's 2011 now and the issues seem to have been corrected to the extent that 02 is still rated as the network where most customers are satisfied and which produced the least complaints to Ofcom.

It's not hard to find outages and issues with ALL of the networks. The statistics prove that customers are highly satisfied with 02 despite some failings. I bet the network with the wooden spoon for customer service and the most complaints to Ofcom would love to be in the same position!

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

Firstly I edit to take account of new evidence which would have been good to have in the first place!.

I just find it very interesting that around 9 times you've posted the same comments about Three warning of possible future pockets of capacity issues (that's exactly what they said) where you were obviously unaware that O2 went through a torrid time already.

You were like a dog with a bone when that statement came out from Three, yet clearly oblivious to the fact it's already happened on your favourite network!

[wavejockglw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

You were like a dog with a bone when that statement came out from Three, yet clearly oblivious to the fact it's already happened on your favourite network!

And all the evidence suggests that 02 addressed that issue and upgraded to provide levels of service that continue to win them the highest rankings for both customer satisfaction and least customer complaints to the regulator. An admirable position to be in compared to the UK's smallest network in terms of customer numbers who continue to languish at the bottom of these important indicators.

One can clearly see which operators value customers and make an effort to satisfy those choosing to spend their money with them.

Returning to the topic of price. Giffgaff have some good pricing for their overseas calls without having to buy an 'extra'. Not as cheap as LycaMobile but still much better than the big operators who are still charging in the £s for some destinations without buying an extra.

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

And all the evidence suggests that 02 addressed that issue and upgraded to provide levels of service that continue to win them the highest rankings for both customer satisfaction and least customer complaints to the regulator. An admirable position to be in compared to the UK's smallest network in terms of customer numbers who continue to languish at the bottom of these important indicators.

One can clearly see which operators value customers and make an effort to satisfy those choosing to spend their money with them.

Returning to the topic of price. Giffgaff have some good pricing for their overseas calls without having to buy an 'extra'. Not as cheap as LycaMobile but still much better than the big operators who are still charging in the £s for some destinations without buying an extra.

You know you could equally be talking about Giffgaff there, as they are tiny and don't have any customer service to speak of.

It's O2 by the way, not 02. A small thing, but it looks silly when you call it 02.

[wavejockglw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

You know you could equally be talking about Giffgaff there, as they are tiny and don't have any customer service to speak of.

Giffgaff are not a network, they are an MVNO and they make very clear that they offer 'community support' to their customers. I have used it to get settings for one of my handsets and the information I needed was quick to find and accurate. Maybe not for all customers but for the technically proficient it's a good concept.

[Thine Wonk]

Just making the point that a lot of customers don't buy based on customer service, but on price, coverage and other things otherwise nobody would buy from Giffgaff.

[moox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

Giffgaff are not a network, they are an MVNO and they make very clear that they offer 'community support' to their customers. I have used it to get settings for one of my handsets and the information I needed was quick to find and accurate. Maybe not for all customers but for the technically proficient it's a good concept.

i.e. "you can't ring us up, but you can get some scroungers reply to your comments with false information and asking for the points so they can get free credit when they aren't trying to get £5 credit by getting people to sign up for a SIM card".

[wilt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

Giffgaff are not a network, they are an MVNO and they make very clear that they offer 'community support' to their customers. I have used it to get settings for one of my handsets and the information I needed was quick to find and accurate. Maybe not for all customers but for the technically proficient it's a good concept.

Surely Three is the best for the technically proficient?

No need for support, awesome 3G network to run your smartphone on.


RE: Three capacity concerns...for a network that's carrying 40% of all mobile data despite being the smallest network, the fact they already don't have a crippled data network (much like o2s) is a minor miracle.

[wavejockglw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Just making the point that a lot of customers don't buy based on customer service, but on price, coverage and other things otherwise nobody would buy from Giffgaff.

So far I'm pretty happy with giffgaff's customer service arrangements and the price is hard to beat. The whole giffgaff strategy of using customers to support others and to promote sales is a good one for a business pitching on price and keeping costs to a minimum.

[wavejockglw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilt

Surely Three is the best for the technically proficient?

No need for support, awesome 3G network to run your smartphone on.

All of the customer satisfaction and complaints survey data published lately seem to being the above statements into question.

3's cusotmer satisfaction issues have been blamed on coverage. "A Three spokesman said: ‘While we’re working hard to resolve these issues, we note Ofcom’s research highlights reception concerns for certain customers as the principal driver of complaints." http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/News/13...operators.aspx

So as ever location determines whether a smartphone on 3 is a good idea. Reception complaints and poor customer satisfaction based on coverage is not a compelling reason to invest on a smartphone from any network.

[call100]

GiffGaff threads brings out the usual suspects.......If used properly it can't be beaten. The coverage issue is geographically dependent so is irrelevant as most people choose what is strongest in their own area. Anyone not getting a good signal would not use it.
Customer service is no better or worse than any customer service of any other network. The boards are full of complaints about call centres....
If you try it and it works for you great....If not use one of the others...None of them deserve undying loyaly.....

[wilt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

All of the customer satisfaction and complaints survey data published lately seem to being the above statements into question.

3's cusotmer satisfaction issues have been blamed on coverage. "A Three spokesman said: ‘While we’re working hard to resolve these issues, we note Ofcom’s research highlights reception concerns for certain customers as the principal driver of complaints." http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/News/13...operators.aspx

So as ever location determines whether a smartphone on 3 is a good idea. Reception complaints and poor customer satisfaction based on coverage is not a compelling reason to invest on a smartphone from any network.

I would have thought a technically proficient user would have the knowledge to know about the 2G situation with Three, would they not?

Applying survey results that will include a large number of people who simply went with Three because they're the cheapest is dubious at best.

And lets not forget, even though Three do place bottom, 81% of people are not dissatisfied. They are only 9% behind o2 on this score.

[Thine Wonk]

But there was only 3% of the neutrals between the best and the worst and only 12% difference in the widest margin.

Three say "We have invested heavily and greatly improved our network coverage, and will continue to make further improvements, but without access to liberalised 2G spectrum to support indoor and rural coverage, increasing our current 97% population footprint is challenging until the next spectrum auction and the release of lower frequency spectrum."

That spectrum which of course O2 delayed by threatening Ofcom with legal action.

You just wait until it's all a level playing field and those days of O2 using old spectrum they acquired for free / cheaply come to an end. When all operators are on a level playing field, then see what happens.

[wavejockglw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by call100

If you try it and it works for you great....If not use one of the others...None of them deserve undying loyaly.....

Makes sense to me!

You pays your money and gets as much as you can for it and if someone offer a better deal with a similar reliability then go for it.

I've been a Vodafone customer for the last 5 years or so but I decided to try giffgaff on a light use PAYG goodybag to see how it performs. If it works well I'll not upgrade with Vodafone and will get another SIM and use giffgaff as my primary service with a number port. Still a few months to wait though before my contract expires.

[Thine Wonk]

Three say they deal with 137 terabytes of data every day and that's more than any other network. So with fewer customers than O2 they must be delivering more data for less, making them a good choice for the mobile internet on your smartphone.

Looking at the O2 map shows you you'll spend an awful lot of time on 2G when travelling and due to the low usage caps you'll also have to switch to wifi a lot too, rather than mobile data.

[wavejockglw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

You just wait until it's all a level playing field and those days of O2 using old spectrum they acquired for free / cheaply come to an end. When all operators are on a level playing field, then see what happens.

It could be a long wait and meanwhile it's Vodafone and 02 who have the facility to refarm 900Mhz to UMTS. Nothing is certain as the Italian 4G auction proved where 3 Italia underbid for 850Mhz and got none!

The same could happen in the UK and when spectrum is allocated the networks will have to invest heavily to deliver coverage. We'll see if HWL are keen to keep ploughing money in to capture share in such a mature and competitive market.

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

It could be a long wait and meanwhile it's Vodafone and 02 who have the facility to refarm 900Mhz to UMTS. Nothing is certain as the Italian 4G auction proved where 3 Italia underbid for 850Mhz and got none!

The same could happen in the UK and when spectrum is allocated the networks will have to invest heavily to deliver coverage. We'll see if HWL are keen to keep ploughing money in to capture share in such a mature and competitive market.

In other countries they did win the bid and are already building or delivering LTE.

[wavejockglw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Looking at the O2 map shows you you'll spend an awful lot of time on 2G when travelling and due to the low usage caps you'll also have to switch to wifi a lot too, rather than mobile data.

Not many are constantly roaming around the country using 3G all day! I work within a building with Wi-Fi in abundance so no need for any of the slow 3G networks. Outwith that I drive on the motorway and data whilst driving is not that relevant unless I use the mobile for sat nav where it needs to access maps and thats not very often.

Most of my phone usage is voice and SMS with a little data for catch up with news etc. Every UK network has coverage for me 99.99% of the time (except I don't get a reliable 3 signal at home - outdoor coverage guarantee only) and although there are some who travel a lot they are not the majority.

I could easily get by on 500MB of data but it's nice to have no restriction and giffgaff offer unlimited data on their £10+ goodybags. Perfect for me in a big city with tons of 02 900Mhz + 2100Mhz UMTS coverage I think. I'll find out over the next few months without having to commit to an expensive contract.

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

Not many are constantly roaming around the country using 3G all day! I work within a building with Wi-Fi in abundance so no need forany of the slow 3G networks. Outwith that I drive on the motorway and data whilst driving is not that relevant unless I use the mobile for sat nav where it needs to access maps and thats not very often.

Most of my phone usage is voice and SMS with a little data for catch up with news etc. Every UK network has coverage for me 99.99% of the time (except I don't get a reliable 3 signal at home - outdoor coverage guarantee only) and although there are some who travel a lot they are not the majority.

I could easily get by on 500MB of data but it's nice to have no restriction and giffgaff offer unlimited data on their £10+ goodybags. Perfect for me in a big city with tons of 02 900Mhz + 2100Mhz UMTS coverage I think. I'll find out over the next few months without having to commit to an expensive contract.

Why then do people post things like this.

Get by on 500MB? yeah with a smartphone you would have to 'get by', it's the lowest allowance of any network. You would have to use wifi a lot of the time, you wouldn't have the choice.

[wilt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

it's the lowest allowance of any network.

I wish it was the lowest. o2 are actively peddling 100mb allowances, while Voda and Orange are flogging 250mb limits. It's ridiculous.

[wavejockglw]

What it may come down to is a simple choice between a relaible 500MB or an unlimited data provison where there are capacity issues that effectively limit your use. Network capacity is finite for all of the operators.

Unlimited data is a marketing strategy and maybe not a very good one in the longer term. Previous failures like the 'Walled Garden', Mobile TV and Video Calling are proof that the networks don't always get things right and some more than others get things very wrong!

That said 500MB is fine for my use, I doubt if I ever go above 200MB a month for the reasons stated above. Maybe if you use a lot of public transport or travel with others in a car you could use a lot more but I dont do either. Nor do I have the need to use data much at work as WiFi is provided, that said I don't have the time to mess around with a mobile during my workday anyway.

At home WifI covers all my needs so the mobile for data is redundant once I cross the threshold.

Argue as long as you like but I suspect there will be millions of users like me and that the data caps don't trouble most folks who have smartphones in addition to home broadband.

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

What it may come down to is a simple choice between a relaible 500MB or an unlimited data provison where there are capacity issues that effectively limit your use. .

Three's data is reliable and unlimited, win win. If all you can do is harp back to the days of walled gardens many years ago and say people with smartphones don't want to use more data when the evidence suggests otherwise, and suggest people don't use what they pay for, but instead use the wifi they paid another provider separately for then your argument falls apart.

[wavejockglw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Three's data is reliable and unlimited, win win. If all you can do is harp back to the days of walled gardens many years ago and say people with smartphones don't want to use more data when the evidence suggests otherwise, and suggest people don't use what they pay for, but instead use the wifi they paid another provider separately for then your argument falls apart.

In my case that does not make good sense. I want broadband and WiFi at home as it's far more relaible than any mobile service. My phone switches to it as soon as it's in range so mobile data at home is not an issue for me. I need reliable voice and text coverage and 3 can't provide that with outdoor coverage stated on the map. So unlimited mobile data is a bargain I don't need and won't use.

Sure more folks are using mobile data, some may have chosen it rather than installing or continuing to pay for fixed lines. If they can get good service from it then fine. Most probably use mobile data for Facebook and net browsing and it won't amount to a huge volume even if they upload some pictures and some low res video.

I actually have 1GB a month data allowance presently but never bother to check what I use as it's so low due to my work and travel pattern.

[Thine Wonk]

You say "I want broadband and WiFi at home as it's far more relaible than any mobile service", so do I on my computer, but on my phone I'm perfectly happy leaving it on 3G. It downloads my podcasts, and all the apps and services work just fine without having to worry about going over allowance.

I'd have to be deliberately concious of this on O2 and watch my data usage / streaming when out to cope with such a small allowance, besides which O2 3G doesn't perform well outside of major towns and cities, if you're in a smaller area you're f&()£D.