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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 7)
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Assa2
11-06-2012
Excellent race and a worthy winner in LH. Well done for some excellent driving all round. Very pleased for RG & SP for making the podium too. Canada really is one of the best races of the year, season after season.

JB is in a world of pain right now. Given how Massa is supposedly under immense pressure at Ferrari how long before JB is talked about in the same way? I think it's a case of the car just notsuiting him and he's going to have a tough time for the rest of the season. That said JB has a habit of turning out a performance when you least expect it and I will be very suprised if he doesn't win a race at some point this year (most likely Hungary).
ACU
11-06-2012
Originally Posted by jmclaugh:
“An exciting race especially after the tedium of Monaco and good to see Hamilton get a deserved win. Ferrari must be kicking themselves for not abandoning a one-stop strategy but it did make for an unusual podium. Bizarre performance from Button whose car obviously had some serious issues.

Bad decision by the BBC to only show highlights for a race that starts so late in the day here especially when it is nearly always an exciting race. They should have covered it live and done highlights for Monaco.”

I though it was a pretty ok race to be honest, nothing special. If Alonso and Vettel had both pitted with Hamilton, it would have been pretty much processional. A bit of exciting surrounding the first pit stop rounds, and then a bit of excitement to see if Hamilton would catch Alonso and Vettel. Which within a couple of laps, you knew it was going to happen.

I though the BBC got it spot on, not showing this race. Italy were playing Spain in the Euros at the same time. They wouldnt have got many people watching the race.
jmclaugh
11-06-2012
Originally Posted by ACU:
“I though the BBC got it spot on, not showing this race. Italy were playing Spain in the Euros at the same time. They wouldnt have got many people watching the race.”

Ah I see and there was me thinking the BBC F1 coverage for was UK F1 fans.
jmclaugh
11-06-2012
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“But then there is a rule that they can't show three consecutive races live in a row. If they showed Canada live, it would have been Canada, Valencia and Silverstone live and they would have had to have dropped Valencia.”

So drop Valencia which is ano dull race. My main point is highlights of races in North & South America can't be shown at a reasonable hour of the day for F1 fans unlike those elsewhere.
LongBallPlease
11-06-2012
Originally Posted by ACU:
“I though it was a pretty ok race to be honest, nothing special. If Alonso and Vettel had both pitted with Hamilton, it would have been pretty much processional. A bit of exciting surrounding the first pit stop rounds, and then a bit of excitement to see if Hamilton would catch Alonso and Vettel. Which within a couple of laps, you knew it was going to happen.

I though the BBC got it spot on, not showing this race. Italy were playing Spain in the Euros at the same time. They wouldnt have got many people watching the race.”

Thats wrong, ITV showed Ireland v Croatia while this race as on.
ACU
11-06-2012
Originally Posted by jmclaugh:
“Ah I see and there was me thinking the BBC F1 coverage for was UK F1 fans.”

You think the English fans only watch the matches which England play in. Or do you think think they probably watch some of the other matches as well?

Originally Posted by LongBallPlease:
“Thats wrong, ITV showed Ireland v Croatia while this race as on.”

Either way, there was a football match on.
jmclaugh
11-06-2012
Originally Posted by ACU:
“You think the English fans only watch the matches which England play in. Or do you think think they probably watch some of the other matches as well? ”

What football matches other channels are showing should have nothing to do with scheduling F1 races on the BBC for the benefit of F1 fans.
gomezz
11-06-2012
Really? What about all those F1 fans who are also keen followers of football? Don't the BBC have a duty to consider them too?
ACU
11-06-2012
Originally Posted by jmclaugh:
“What football matches other channels are showing should have nothing to do with scheduling F1 races on the BBC for the benefit of F1 fans.”

I would agree with you as long as some F1 fans are not also football fans. Which isnt the case. What other channels are showing, has quite a bit to do with scheduling of another channel.

In reality you will get some football fans, that also watch F1. Some of these fans, will place footy above F1. Thus would choose to watch the footy rather than the F1. The BBC realised this, and thought it was better to choose another race from the calendar to show live. I watched both matches yesterday and the F1.

I was out earlier in the day, so record all three programs. Watched the Spain/Italy game whilst the F1 was on. Then watched the F1, FF some of the race. Then I watched the Croatia/Ireland game. I bet there were some people who would normally watch F1, but watched the Ireland game yesterday.
gomezz
11-06-2012
Not to mention juggling in watching the cricket, tennis, BTCC and superbikes. All in all a bit of a congested day for sport on the telly.
jmclaugh
11-06-2012
Originally Posted by gomezz:
“Really? What about all those F1 fans who are also keen followers of football? Don't the BBC have a duty to consider them too?”

So the BBC now shedule stuff to cater for what people might want to watch on other channels and avoid clashing their programmes with other channels in case viewers might both want to watch both.
jmclaugh
11-06-2012
Originally Posted by ACU:
“I would agree with you as long as some F1 fans are not also football fans. Which isnt the case. What other channels are showing, has quite a bit to do with scheduling of another channel.

In reality you will get some football fans, that also watch F1. Some of these fans, will place footy above F1. Thus would choose to watch the footy rather than the F1. The BBC realised this, and thought it was better to choose another race from the calendar to show live. I watched both matches yesterday and the F1.

I was out earlier in the day, so record all three programs. Watched the Spain/Italy game whilst the F1 was on. Then watched the F1, FF some of the race. Then I watched the Croatia/Ireland game. I bet there were some people who would normally watch F1, but watched the Ireland game yesterday.”

Real F1 fans who the coverage is supposedly for imo place F1 above football.
ACU
11-06-2012
Originally Posted by jmclaugh:
“So the BBC now shedule stuff to cater for what people might want to watch on other channels and avoid clashing their programmes with other channels in case viewers might both want to watch both. ”

TV channels see what the other channel are showing, and then plan accordingly. Have you ever thought why soaps like Corrie and Eastenders are never shown at the same time?

Originally Posted by jmclaugh:
“Real F1 fans who the coverage is supposedly for imo place F1 above football.”

Again you are wrong there. The BBC coverage is not just for 'real' fans. Its for all F1 fans, casual and real.

Anyway 'real' fans would have skys F1 channel...where ALL races are on live with extended coverage of all sessions and extra programs around a race weekend. Not sure why a 'real' F1 fan would just watch the highlights on the BBC.
Mark F
11-06-2012
Originally Posted by jenzie:
“WOW

SEVEN different winners now!!!!!”

How likely is an 8th?
North Downs
11-06-2012
Does anyone know why the race start was 7pm this year, when it was 6pm last year and 5pm in 2010?
potforest
11-06-2012
I hope Lewis Hamilton can win this time. I have been rooting for him this year.
bingoman
11-06-2012
Can the next race winner please be a non Ferrari, Red Bull or Mclaren
Si_Crewe
12-06-2012
I must say, I don't think the footie had anything to do with the BBC's decision not to broadcast the Montreal race.

Given that the BBC are now, basically, just getting whatever scraps Sky wants to throw them, I suspect that when the deal was thrashed out Sky tried to keep all the best races for themselves and the BBC had to beg for every decent race they finally ended up with so I guess it's not surprising that they didn't get all the good races.

When you look at the calendar (HERE), the Beeb didn't do too badly out of it.
About the only races I reckon BBC watchers will be upset about missing are Germany, Italy and Japan.

I just think it was inevitable that Sky would grab some of the best races for themselves and I reckon that's what happened with Canada.
Assa2
12-06-2012
Originally Posted by Mark F:
“How likely is an 8th?”

Not sure if Valencia will have another different winner but over the remainder of the season you've got to say there is every chance both Lotus drivers could get a win along with MS so 10 winners in the season is not impossible.

I would be suprised if the eventual DC comes away with more than 3 or 4 wins.
ACU
12-06-2012
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“I must say, I don't think the footie had anything to do with the BBC's decision not to broadcast the Montreal race.

Given that the BBC are now, basically, just getting whatever scraps Sky wants to throw them, I suspect that when the deal was thrashed out Sky tried to keep all the best races for themselves and the BBC had to beg for every decent race they finally ended up with so I guess it's not surprising that they didn't get all the good races.

When you look at the calendar (HERE), the Beeb didn't do too badly out of it.
About the only races I reckon BBC watchers will be upset about missing are Germany, Italy and Japan.

I just think it was inevitable that Sky would grab some of the best races for themselves and I reckon that's what happened with Canada.”

I dont entirely agree. It was the BBC who approached sky, thus had quite a bit of bargaining power. If sky had the upper hand, they would not have given the British GP or the Monaco GP. I think in this round the BBC had quite a bit of power. In future contract renewals they will not. It will be interesting to see what happens in future deals between the BBC and Sky.

Sky knew if the BBC were not happy, they could pull out and they would have nothing to lose.


As for a different winner of the next race, I dont think they will be a different winner. The main drivers have won a race each (apart from Button). The only drivers not to win a race that are likely to win are Raikkonen, Grosjean and dare I say it Schumacher. I think at the next race we will see our first two race winner.
Si_Crewe
12-06-2012
Originally Posted by ACU:
“I dont entirely agree. It was the BBC who approached sky, thus had quite a bit of bargaining power. If sky had the upper hand, they would not have given the British GP or the Monaco GP. I think in this round the BBC had quite a bit of power. In future contract renewals they will not. It will be interesting to see what happens in future deals between the BBC and Sky.”

Not sure what you mean by "given".
Sky still have the Brit' race and Monaco. It's just that the BBC get to show them as well.

That's kinda my point though; Although the BBC probably did their best to hold onto all the best races, it's hardly surprising they were forced to relinquish a couple of them.

I doubt they deliberately handed over Canada on the basis that Euro 2012 was on at the same time and they wanted to "ration" their sports coverage.
After all, if that was the idea behind it then they could, theoretically, have aired the Canada race and foregone the Europe race which also conflicts with Euro 2012.

Seems far more likely that the BBC and Sky just divided up the wheat and the chaff and the BBC got this particular bit of chaff.

Quote:
“As for a different winner of the next race, I dont think they will be a different winner. The main drivers have won a race each (apart from Button). The only drivers not to win a race that are likely to win are Raikkonen, Grosjean and dare I say it Schumacher. I think at the next race we will see our first two race winner”

Button won in Oz.

Kinda weird regarding Schuey.
In 2010 he seemed pretty ragged, last year was better and this year he isn't embarrasing himself any more but, when you look at the results, there's the 2 HRTs, 2 Marrusias and 2 Caterhams all at the bottom of the table and then, right above them, there's Michael Schumacher, 7 times WDC.
ACU
12-06-2012
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Not sure what you mean by "given".
Sky still have the Brit' race and Monaco. It's just that the BBC get to show them as well.

That's kinda my point though; Although the BBC probably did their best to hold onto all the best races, it's hardly surprising they were forced to relinquish a couple of them.

I doubt they deliberately handed over Canada on the basis that Euro 2012 was on at the same time and they wanted to "ration" their sports coverage.
After all, if that was the idea behind it then they could, theoretically, have aired the Canada race and foregone the Europe race which also conflicts with Euro 2012.

Seems far more likely that the BBC and Sky just divided up the wheat and the chaff and the BBC got this particular bit of chaff.”

By 'given', I meant agreed to allow the BBC to air live coverage. Sorry it wasnt clear.

I agree the BBC would have wanted all the best races, but sky were not going to let that happen. So you can bet there was some toing and froing. With give and take on both sides. Its this give and take part of the negotiations that I think the BBC had an upper hand, this time at least. Obviously now that sky have the rights, any future deal with the BBC, will mean the BBC isnt in as good a position.

As for the European GP, the race and qualify start at 1pm UK time. On that weekend there is only one football match per day, which kick of at 7.45pm UK. So the race and qualify will be over well before the footy starts. Thus there is no clash. With the Canadian GP there was a clash, the race was on at the same time as a footy match. I would be surprised if that wasnt taken into consideration. Who in their right mind would want the European GP, Valencia has been a bore fest for the last couple of seasons.



Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Button won in Oz.

Kinda weird regarding Schuey.
In 2010 he seemed pretty ragged, last year was better and this year he isn't embarrasing himself any more but, when you look at the results, there's the 2 HRTs, 2 Marrusias and 2 Caterhams all at the bottom of the table and then, right above them, there's Michael Schumacher, 7 times WDC.”

Hmm for got that Button has won this season.

Schumacher has had quite a bit of bad luck this season. Quite a few retirements due to car problems. Getting pole at Monaco shows he still has the skill to be challenging for podium finishes...as long as the car lasts race distance. I for one hope he can win a race this season, will settle for a podium finish. He does need to start scoring points, so he can move up the table. Which I dont think will be a problem, as long as he can get to the chequered flag.
Woodentop
12-06-2012
Personally, thought the limited excitement lasted until the cliff or fall off created such a difference in lap times that the outcome became inevitable and the need for DRS zone mattered not. The decision was a risk, but Villneuve is right that the risk should not be so punitive and more gradual whereby, as in the past, a skillful driver can defend and the fresher tyred car has to work out the best opportunity to take the chance. Simply, breezing by isn't great excitement nor skillful.

The pundits keep trying to suggest the season is great racing, but it's gone too far in restricting speed and having to guess, which is why no consistency can be established, to then know how to get the optimum from car and driver. It is almost a lottery now and no team is confident of getting an understanding any time soon and want to be able to check the upgrades, they know in normal circumstances, would take the car on to the next level. Instead, they are unable, unsure and often retreating to safe design and set up just to last out.
Assa2
13-06-2012
How 'exciting' this season is so far and whether or not is is 'proper' racing is entirely subjective. To suggest Canada wasn't 'exciitng' is IMO wrong. It was exciting - the end result wasn't known until the final few laps and Alonso who at one time looked a likely winner was a few 10ths off losing another place on the final lap. You can't say that was because of the unpredictability of the tyres. The second Alonso failed to come in for tyres the lap after Hamilton his fate was sealed. And yet the drivers who came 2nd & 3rd and who in the final few laps were putting in the fastest laps of the race had tyres that were substantially older than Alonso (see how far we've comne - a set of the soft tyres lasting 40+ laps and still capable of the being driven hard). It was a terrible tactical call by Ferrari (& RB) especially after LH's delayed stop.

Not knowng from race to race who is going to win or make up the top 6 is very exciting. Having the same teams and drivers dominate from race to race, even if the combination changes at each, is not as exciting. I agree that the actual on-track racing is lacking because it's very rare for two drivers to be on the same state of tyres / fuel and be racing for position, and even if they are the chances are they will be prohibited from racing all-out because of tyre and fuel management. Had Alosno & Vettel pitted the lap after LH we could have had a ding-dong battle to the line... or Alonso may have scamppered off into the distance.. who knows. I personally really enjoyed it.

What's very clear to me is that RB's compromised design in terms of straight-line speed can no longer be justified as they simpkly can't get the downforce to compensate. RB need to find some speed or their season is more-or-less hopeless (in terms of the CC & DC).
Si_Crewe
13-06-2012
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“How 'exciting' this season is so far and whether or not is is 'proper' racing is entirely subjective. To suggest Canada wasn't 'exciitng' is IMO wrong. It was exciting - the end result wasn't known until the final few laps and Alonso who at one time looked a likely winner was a few 10ths off losing another place on the final lap. You can't say that was because of the unpredictability of the tyres. The second Alonso failed to come in for tyres the lap after Hamilton his fate was sealed. And yet the drivers who came 2nd & 3rd and who in the final few laps were putting in the fastest laps of the race had tyres that were substantially older than Alonso (see how far we've comne - a set of the soft tyres lasting 40+ laps and still capable of the being driven hard). It was a terrible tactical call by Ferrari (& RB) especially after LH's delayed stop.”

Not too sure about that.

In fact, Pirelli specifically promised the teams that the prime tyre for Canada would last the ENTIRE race distance with no sudden drop-off and instead there'd be a steady reduction in available grip throughout the life of the tyre.

From lap 50 we had Hamilton on fresh tyres catching Alonso on old tyres at a rate of a little over 1s per lap.
Vettel stopped on lap 63 and caught Alonso at a rate of around 5s per lap and went on to finish 7s ahead.

This seems to suggest that, contrary to Pirelli's expectations, the performance of the tyres degraded from a 1s per lap deficit to around a 5 second deficit within the last 10 laps.

Not quite the "progressive reduction in grip" that Pirelli were hoping for.
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