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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 7)
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Assa2
13-06-2012
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Not too sure about that.

In fact, Pirelli specifically promised the teams that the prime tyre for Canada would last the ENTIRE race distance with no sudden drop-off and instead there'd be a steady reduction in available grip throughout the life of the tyre.

From lap 50 we had Hamilton on fresh tyres catching Alonso on old tyres at a rate of a little over 1s per lap.
Vettel stopped on lap 63 and caught Alonso at a rate of around 5s per lap and went on to finish 7s ahead.

This seems to suggest that, contrary to Pirelli's expectations, the performance of the tyres degraded from a 1s per lap deficit to around a 5 second deficit within the last 10 laps.

Not quite the "progressive reduction in grip" that Pirelli were hoping for.”

And yet the two drivers behind LH were on older tyres than Alonso and didn't have the drop off. Either the Ferrari was harder on it's tyres, Alonso didn't look after them enough or running close behind LH for a numbr of laps had a big effect. Either way it shows that the tyres, under certain circumstances, did last well.

It does concern me though that drivers have to back off from running close behind someone just because it degrades the tyres so much. I'd like to think that in that scenario a driver will do his best to get past and be the one at the front rather than back off the pace but I guess that the realisty is if they can't get a DRS pass in a couple of laps they are forced to.
Si_Crewe
14-06-2012
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“And yet the two drivers behind LH were on older tyres than Alonso and didn't have the drop off. Either the Ferrari was harder on it's tyres, Alonso didn't look after them enough or running close behind LH for a numbr of laps had a big effect. Either way it shows that the tyres, under certain circumstances, did last well.

It does concern me though that drivers have to back off from running close behind someone just because it degrades the tyres so much. I'd like to think that in that scenario a driver will do his best to get past and be the one at the front rather than back off the pace but I guess that the realisty is if they can't get a DRS pass in a couple of laps they are forced to.”

That's actually incorrect about the tyres although it's interesting that RG only stopped 2 or 3 laps after Alonso.
Perhaps the tyres did show a sudden deterioration and if the race had been another 5 laps we would have seen the same happen to RG?
SP started on the prime tyre and ran to around lap 45 with it before changing to the option so it's not really possible to compare pace.

I certainly agree with you about the likelihood of prematuremly damaging the tyres by by driving aggresively though.
Of course, that leads us to ask whether or not it's good that participants in an F1 race cannot challenge each other for fear of damaging their tyres, which is exactly why I've been critical of the tyre issues thus far.

Let's face it, if attempting to challenge for position ruins tyres you can hardly blame drivers for restricting their overtakes to DRS assisted manoevres.
Woodentop
14-06-2012
The way things are going the fastest cars will soon be down on the seafront in Southend and most excitement will be watching the old bill chasing them round the streets!
allthingsuk
22-06-2012
Just watched FP1 and FP2 and looking at Hamilton's onboard. The McLaren did not look great for Hamilton - locking up in almost every corner and especially in the hairpin at the start of sector 3, where he seemed to lose quite a lot going wide. The car looked particularly short on traction as well. Either McLaren were sandbagging or they're just well off the pace.
ACU
22-06-2012
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“Just watched FP1 and FP2 and looking at Hamilton's onboard. The McLaren did not look great for Hamilton - locking up in almost every corner and especially in the hairpin at the start of sector 3, where he seemed to lose quite a lot going wide. The car looked particularly short on traction as well. Either McLaren were sandbagging or they're just well off the pace.”

Maybe he was just trying to find the limits?
Mark F
22-06-2012
Not expecting much from this weekend's rac..the winner could be decided in qualiflying!
BigBmad
23-06-2012
No one around for qualifying? Schumacher, Alonso and Massa out in Q2 and Webber out in Q1. Pole is anyones of 8 here. Still think Hamilton will get it
Si_Crewe
23-06-2012
Kind of subdued quali' session IMO but at least it was all fairly sensible with only a minimal amount of the random nonsense that's affected some of the season.

I bet Massa is actually happy that Alonso is also down the grid but I'm not sure that's really a positive mindset when he should really be upset at doing badly.
Sam Seed
23-06-2012
Once again Hamilton out classes button
iamsofired
23-06-2012
Tetchy Jenson again, such a hard life.
allthingsuk
23-06-2012
Ugh - Jenson complaining that on new tyres, he had no front grip. Change the record, son.

Scary that Vettel's already got 33 poles at age 24. That's just crazy.
BillyBatty
23-06-2012
Button poor again as were Senna and Schumacher.
Woodentop
23-06-2012
Di Montezemelo shaking his head and sending a clear signal to Domenicali that it's not good enough. The team can point to tightness in the times, but with the claim of garnering understanding and making steps forward in recent weeks, he will not accept being at the back of the top ten or worse. He'll be expecting to see a strong race performance, but there's no good in having apparent pace, but not able to use it.
Si_Crewe
23-06-2012
I don't think Button has much to be upset about this weekend.
It's not like he's been miles off the pace. It was just a very close session and a few people slipped between him and Hamilton.

As for Vettel's 33 pole's, he's been very fortunate to arrive at RBR just as they gained dominance in F1.
After Hamilton's first year people thought he was going to be some kind of super-driver but McLaren lost the advantage and Lewis couldn't maintain his form.
Unless RBR can maintain their dominance in F1 (which is unlikely for any team in the long term) I think Vettel's statistics will normalise themselves in a few years.

I guess it might sound a bit daft but it's easy to do well when your team is winning. The real trick is to carry on doing well when they're not.

What you really need to set records is the uncanny ability to jump ship from one team just as their performance wanes and go to another team just as they're gaining the advantage.
bingoman
23-06-2012
Race Prediction- I think we could have another winner again maybe one of the Lotus cars and i think Caterham will get a least point, i am having finger crossed if at least one of those prediction goes well
Mystical123
23-06-2012
Originally Posted by bingoman:
“Race Prediction- I think we could have another winner again maybe one of the Lotus cars and i think Caterham will get a least point, i am having finger crossed if at least one of those prediction goes well”

I think the bit in bold is a little optimistic - they'd have to overtake at least 6 faster cars on a circuit where even the drivers say overtaking is practically impossible. Even if they can stay on the pace of the cars in front, strategy is unlikely to get them that much of a jump. I wouldn't blame Mark Webber if he spent tomorrow trying to rid the ghosts of the past by just learning the circuit more and basically testing things, I'm not convinced he has much hope of getting a point from 19th (or is it 20th?)...

Watching qualifying today, I was reminded how much I don't like watching the Valencia race. Q2 and 3 were fairly exciting, but with all the teams talking of how impossible it is to overtake, I can't see the race being that much better than this year's Monaco...
roger_50
23-06-2012
Yep, Valencia is a terrible, terrible, terrible circuit.

I might watch the race-start and the first 10 laps - then just leave it on in the background. Or not at all.
Si_Crewe
24-06-2012
It's a bit of a shame IMO.

The Valencia circuit seems like a terrific track to drive around.
The section between the first hairpin and the bridge has both low and high speed corners which test a cars ability to change direction, it has 3 decent straights with corners at the end which should allow cars to fight for position and the last part, after the 2nd hairpin, is a real test of aerodynamic grip.

For those who're watching the race on dish-TV, it might be worth having a look at the support races to see if they're more exciting.
Forza Ferrari
24-06-2012
Eight nil to Lewis in qualifying. Funny all the talk is about Lewis leaving McLaren perhaps they should be sacking their Jenson and then two new drivers at McLaren.

If Lewis locks up in the race at the rate he did on Saturday then his tyres won’t last long. Should be an easy win for Vettel.
Sam Seed
24-06-2012
button drops down to 13th from 8th on the opening lap
Existentialist
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Sam Seed:
“button drops down to 13th from 8th on the opening lap ”

He's freaking useless isn't he. I put him in my fantasy team in the hope he would up his game.

What a fool I was.

He has to the best worst F1 World Champion in the history of the sport.
Si_Crewe
24-06-2012
Starting to seem like McLaren have finally hired somebody who's actually good at planning race strategy.

IF Hamilton is planning to do a stop less than Vettel he is, effectively, forcing Vettel to go fast by going slowly.
How bizarre is that?!
Mark F
24-06-2012
Nice passy by Grosjean on Hamilton.

Alonso made a couple of decent moves as well.

Vettel has it easy though ATM.
Forza Ferrari
24-06-2012
Team Radio Lewis Hamilton: Grosjean passed me tell Charlie it was deliberate.
Forza Ferrari
24-06-2012
Senna chops another car. Tut Tut.
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