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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 7)
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Si_Crewe
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“EDIT: On Sky, they're saying that the paddock feel it was reckless of Lewis not to let Maldonado back on track. Interesting.”

As I said above, I suspect that all Lewis was able to do at that point was aim his car in one direction, hang on while it went through the corner and then set it up for the next one.

Modifying his line mid-corner to dodge Maldonado was probably just impossible.
Woodentop
24-06-2012
First good race of season. Overtaking on merit, not just DRS. Very bad for Vettel, the length of unnecessary safety car, caused alarms in his car, which he and Grosjean both suffered, possibly enclosed track and heat on track exacerbated their issues.

Alonso drove relentlessly and was lucky to win, but Canada was a bad loss and perhaps deserved better then.

Hamilton just seems to compound his pit stop issues and whilst he defended rigorously, by not accepting the inevitable, as Alonso did in Canada, he got involved with a man he knows will be bloody minded and lost everything.
Si_Crewe
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“Maldonado is with the stewards. I have a feeling it may just be passed off as a racing incident to be honest as both drivers lost out badly. Hamilton retired and Maldonado finished down the order, so any other punishment may be deemed harsh.”

I hope not.

Again, it's not just this incident. It's the fact that he's obviously quite happy to bash his car into another one whenever he feels like it.
That's wayyyyy out of order and he really needs a penalty that'll cure him of that habit permanently.
allthingsuk
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Woodentop:
“First good race of season. Overtaking on merit, not just DRS. Very bad for Vettel, the length of unnecessary safety car, caused alarms in his car, which he and Grosjean both suffered, possibly enclosed track and heat on track exacerbated their issues. ”

Some stunning overtakes this afternoon. Brilliant racing.

What happened to Hamilton was unfortunate with the front jack failing. Terrible luck, but someone really needs to get to the bottom of their pitstop woes.

Vettel retiring with alternator issues allegedly was unfortunate - he was going to dominate this race even after the safety car and had it in hand. And unfortunate for Grosjean as well.

Quite a race of attrition in many respects.
footygirl
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“I hope not.

Again, it's not just this incident. It's the fact that he's obviously quite happy to bash his car into another one whenever he feels like it.
That's wayyyyy out of order and he really needs a penalty that'll cure him of that habit permanently.”

He needs to be punished for this - and given that he appears to have previous- heavily
allthingsuk
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by footygirl:
“He needs to be punished for this - and given that he appears to have previous- heavily”

And I expect Sir Frank to give him a bollocking.

Also Grosjean overtook Hamilton at the same corner and as Grosjean did not exceed track limits, Hamilton gave him space. Which doesn't excuse Maldonado one bit.
Woodentop
24-06-2012
Schumacher should not be demoted. Red Bull are not protesting, Schumacher reacted fairly to the flags and typical of the BBC contracdicting teams technical information on their own eyesight on poor replays where exact measures cannot be assessed.
allthingsuk
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Woodentop:
“Schumacher should not be demoted. Red Bull are not protesting, Schumacher reacted fairly to the flags and typical of the BBC contracdicting teams technical information on their own eyesight on poor replays where exact measures cannot be assessed.”

It was obvious that Schumacher slowed in the yellow flag zone and his DRS wasn't open.
Si_Crewe
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Woodentop:
“Schumacher should not be demoted. Red Bull are not protesting, Schumacher reacted fairly to the flags and typical of the BBC contracdicting teams technical information on their own eyesight on poor replays where exact measures cannot be assessed.”

To be fair, the BBC footage clearly showed Schuey passing one flag and then you could see the DRS closing just before he reached the 2nd flag (with the 1st flag visible in the background) so he clearly had the DRS open as he passed the first one.

Still, apparently the use of the DRS doesn't actually contravene any rule as long as he slows down so hopefully he'll be okay.

I was never a big Schumacher fan but he deserves better than he's managed so far.

*EDIT*
Just watching the closing credits of the f1 forum...
Was it Maldonado who was involved in Senna's spin near the start of the race as well?
Busy day for him.
footygirl
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“And I expect Sir Frank to give him a bollocking.

Also Grosjean overtook Hamilton at the same corner and as Grosjean did not exceed track limits, Hamilton gave him space. Which doesn't excuse Maldonado one bit.”

And deduct his wages would be a good idea- it seems as if it needs to be rammed into Maldonado that using the car as a dodgem is not acceptable
Forza Ferrari
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“Harsh in my view. Lewis knew what he was doing and had the line. Maldonado could have just gone straight at the run-off, rejoined at the next corner, let Lewis through, and have a run onto the hairpin at the end of the straight.

Of course, the stewards may eventually decide it was just a racing incident with no further action taken against Maldonado.”

I can’t subscribe to this view that Maldo should have gone straight. When cars are racing at the track limits then the car on the inside will always scrabble over the white line as best it can unless it is in danger of spinning or crashing. Even when Karun draws the line on the screen he does it far after the point the Maldo could have taken to the run off. Disappointing because it is the first time I remember him talking sewage. Likely had the defend Lewis at all costs talk now he is being on the show more.

Lewis should have given more room expecting Maldo to be exactly where he was and coming back on. It was foolish of him to fight so hard in the position he was in. Lewis tyres to take the normal line as if he is not in a desperate battle with a superior car. You only have to look at his tantrum getting out of the car to see he still needs to mature at as a driver.

When you contrast this to Alonso driving at the end of Canada it is obvious the best approach to take. If your tyres are completely gone then accept you will be losing the places or you are unlikely to finish.
footygirl
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“I can’t subscribe to this view that Maldo should have gone straight. When cars are racing at the track limits then the car on the inside will always scrabble over the white line as best it can unless it is in danger of spinning or crashing. Even when Karun draws the line on the screen he does it far after the point the Maldo could have taken to the run off. Disappointing because it is the first time I remember him talking sewage. Likely had the defend Lewis at all costs talk now he is being on the show more.

Lewis should have given more room expecting Maldo to be exactly where he was and coming back on. It was foolish of him to fight so hard in the position he was in. Lewis tyres to take the normal line as if he is not in a desperate battle with a superior car. You only have to look at his tantrum getting out of the car to see he still needs to mature at as a driver.

When you contrast this to Alonso driving at the end of Canada it is obvious the best approach to take. If your tyres are completely gone then accept you will be losing the places or you are unlikely to finish.”

I find it odd that you castigate Hamilton for being angry and upset. And Alonso is hardly beyond reproach for some of his past antics
Forza Ferrari
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“
S'funny but I seem to recall, last year (?), Lewis ran off the track (in Turkey?) and caused di Resta to swerve as he rejoined and got a penalty for it.
How come di Resta wasn't similarly compelled to allow Hamilton room to rejoin the track?
”

Lewis did a spin against the direction of the track in front of half the pack and almost took off three cars is I think what happened. It was one of the most reckless things done in the last ten years and in no way similar.
Mythica
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“I can’t subscribe to this view that Maldo should have gone straight. When cars are racing at the track limits then the car on the inside will always scrabble over the white line as best it can unless it is in danger of spinning or crashing. Even when Karun draws the line on the screen he does it far after the point the Maldo could have taken to the run off. Disappointing because it is the first time I remember him talking sewage. Likely had the defend Lewis at all costs talk now he is being on the show more.

Lewis should have given more room expecting Maldo to be exactly where he was and coming back on. It was foolish of him to fight so hard in the position he was in. Lewis tyres to take the normal line as if he is not in a desperate battle with a superior car. You only have to look at his tantrum getting out of the car to see he still needs to mature at as a driver.

When you contrast this to Alonso driving at the end of Canada it is obvious the best approach to take. If your tyres are completely gone then accept you will be losing the places or you are unlikely to finish.”

I've got a feeling that switching drivers around and it was Hamilton driving into Maldonado that you wouldn't be having the same view as you do now.
Forza Ferrari
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by footygirl:
“I find it odd that you castigate Hamilton for being angry and upset. And Alonso is hardly beyond reproach for some of his past antics”

Yes because he was in a desperate situation and should have known to yield. Having a tantrum because he was to dim to accept his tyres were gone and in no position to fight other cars is stupid. It’s his own fault he went out and didn’t cruse to some sort of points finish.
Si_Crewe
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“Lewis did a spin against the direction of the track in front of half the pack and almost took off three cars is I think what happened. It was one of the most reckless things done in the last ten years and in no way similar.”

To be honest, I don't think anybody else here is interested what you think.
allthingsuk
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“I can’t subscribe to this view that Maldo should have gone straight. When cars are racing at the track limits then the car on the inside will always scrabble over the white line as best it can unless it is in danger of spinning or crashing. Even when Karun draws the line on the screen he does it far after the point the Maldo could have taken to the run off. Disappointing because it is the first time I remember him talking sewage. Likely had the defend Lewis at all costs talk now he is being on the show more.

Lewis should have given more room expecting Maldo to be exactly where he was and coming back on. It was foolish of him to fight so hard in the position he was in. Lewis tyres to take the normal line as if he is not in a desperate battle with a superior car. You only have to look at his tantrum getting out of the car to see he still needs to mature at as a driver.

When you contrast this to Alonso driving at the end of Canada it is obvious the best approach to take. If your tyres are completely gone then accept you will be losing the places or you are unlikely to finish.”

You have a point. Hamilton would have been better off just letting Maldonado past in the first instance perhaps, on the straight into the corner - he would have got good points as well. Karun Chandhok was spot on - that is what Maldonado should have probably done in that situation. He wasn't talking sewage as you suggest, he was speaking a lot of sense that it was indeed Maldonado's fault. And Hamilton wasn't really in a position to yield mid corner with his tyres in such a state - he could have easily just slid into the barrier off line. Hamilton was just frustrated in the heat of the moment and he's had lots of setbacks this season, which he's dealt with maturely. When he was interviewed, he just took it on the chin.

Your clear anti-Hamilton stance is making you look very bad indeed though.
Mythica
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“Yes because he was in a desperate situation and should have known to yield. Having a tantrum because he was to dim to accept his tyres were gone and in no position to fight other cars is stupid. It’s his own fault he went out and didn’t cruse to some sort of points finish.”

I think he had a tantrum because someone crashed into him. Liken it to someone crashing into your road car coming from the pavement, you would also throw a tantrum no doubt.
allthingsuk
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“Yes because he was in a desperate situation and should have known to yield. Having a tantrum because he was to dim to accept his tyres were gone and in no position to fight other cars is stupid. It’s his own fault he went out and didn’t cruse to some sort of points finish.”

Yield when he was on the racing line? Why?

Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“Lewis did a spin against the direction of the track in front of half the pack and almost took off three cars is I think what happened. It was one of the most reckless things done in the last ten years and in no way similar.”

It wasn't in front of half the pack. And it's not the most reckless thing I've seen in the last 10 years either. Reckless is seeing Schumacher deliberately park his car in Monaco or nearly push Barrichello into the wall in Hungary,
Forza Ferrari
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Mythica:
“I've got a feeling that switching drivers around and it was Hamilton driving into Maldonado that you wouldn't be having the same view as you do now.”

No because we have seen so many drivers this year having to yield if the tyres have fallen off the cliff face. Today Schumacher had to do it at the start of the race and then was passing cars again once he had better tyres and the tables were turned. I was relieved and pleased to see him not driving Alonso in to the wall as he came past. It is part of modern F1 that you can't always hold your position. So any driver failing to recognise is equally a fool.
coughthecat
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Mythica:
“I've got a feeling that switching drivers around and it was Hamilton driving into Maldonado that you wouldn't be having the same view as you do now.”

I think if we switched the drivers round, we might not be hearing so many calls for Hamilton to be banned, despite all of his "previous"!

(Sorry Mythica ... I not deliberately picking on you!)
Forza Ferrari
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“Yield when he was on the racing line? Why?”

Because the car behind has more grip. It brakes later, it accerates faster, it corners better, it has higher top speed, it can change direction in to braking areas in ways that you can’t. It is going to get you no matter what you do. The only corse of action is to choose a time and place for it to happen when you don’t finish in the wall. Maldonado was going forward and Lewis was going backwards it had become a matter of physics.
Mythica
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“No because we have seen so many drivers this year having to yield if the tyres have fallen off the cliff face. Today Schumacher had to do it at the start of the race and then was passing cars again once he had better tyres and the tables were turned. I was relieved and pleased to see him not driving Alonso in to the wall as he came past. It is part of modern F1 that you can't always hold your position. So any driver failing to recognise is equally a fool.”

He was on the racing line, you don't yeild when on the racing line. Maldonado, was fully of the race track. I suspect Hamilton would have thought that Maldonado would have brains not to try and rejoin the race track, a) by hitting another car and b) having to steer over the kurb. Regardless of whether Hamilton was best off yeilding to finish off in the points is neither here nor there, someone crashed into him while he was on the racing line.

I still do get the feeling you would be having one hell of a go at Hamilton if he was Maldonado in this instance, I get that from just reading a few of your posts and your name.
Forza Ferrari
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“ Reckless is seeing Schumacher deliberately park his car in Monaco or nearly push Barrichello into the wall in Hungary,”


Mythica
24-06-2012
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“Because the car behind has more grip. It brakes later, it accerates faster, it corners better, it has higher top speed, it can change direction in to braking areas in ways that you can’t. It is going to get you no matter what you do. The only corse of action is to choose a time and place for it to happen when you don’t finish in the wall. Maldonado was going forward and Lewis was going backwards it had become a matter of physics.”

And that's for Maldonado to figure best when to do that, nothing to do with Hamilton. Hamilton can just race to the racing line.
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