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Military Wives singing on Strictly
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poppyr
12-12-2011
Originally Posted by peeve:
“Jeez. BIB 1 - So it's okay for you to have an opinion, but not okay for anybody else to disagree with you?

BIB 2 - I'm happy to support the Royal British Legion and SSAFA by buying the record and am equally happy to encourage others to do so. However, this does not mean you have to 'do as you're told'. Your bank account is safe.”

If you had read some of the previous posts they were saying to stop moaning about the quality of the singing and get behind them. I would take it from that that if you don't have anything positive to say about the singing then don't post your opinion at all. I have no problem with anyone supporting whichever cause they want but the tone of some of the posters on here is that because this performance was from Military Wives then you don't have the right to criticise it. As a previous poster said the thread should have been called "Military Wives Appreciation Thread" because the minute you dare to criticise them people get really sensitive about it.
Lorelei Lee
12-12-2011
Originally Posted by poppyr:
“Totally agree I am sick of people telling other posters it doesn't matter what the singing was like we should all get behind them. They were performing on a prime time BBC show which is watched by millions and everyone is entitled to give their opinion on the standard of singing just like they do with every other guest on the results show,irrelevant if it's a charity record or not.”

I respect your right to comment on the singing quality - I certainly did in my post above - but it's worth bearing in mind that we've suffered some dreadful s**te from so-called professional entertainers over the years on SCD.

TMWC were no worse than the execrable performances in recent years of Robbie Williams, Andy Williams and Cee-Lo Green, to name just a few. So even ignoring the 'charidee' element entirely, I really don't think they deserved the abuse that's come their way.

EDIT: I should also say that actually I love Robbie and Cee-Lo - and even Andy in his place. But their SCD slots really were horrific viewing
primer
12-12-2011
Originally Posted by Muggsy:
“Doesn't make them experts on music.”

no-one said it did.

but then, being a self aggrandising anonymous internet nic doesn't cut it for me on the 'expert' stakes either.

however gareth malone is an expert.

unless having a distinction from the academy and a very successful high profile career comes a poor second to reportedly being related to someone who plays guitar on a cruise ship. or something.
Moonbean
12-12-2011
It wasn't the greatest of performances or the worst in my opinion. For me, the sentiments of the wives' own words from their letters was what was important; not perfect singing. As someone's already pointed out, we're not being forced to buy this song, so if you don't like it, fine.
Wiskas
12-12-2011
Originally Posted by Cressida:
“It's only one performance and their studio recording will fine.”

No doubt. Autotune.

Originally Posted by primer:
“yadda yadda.

and have you ever had a number 1 record?

”

How very rude.

And yes, I have sung on several number 1 singles and albums.

Originally Posted by primer:
“no-one said it did.

but then, being a self aggrandising anonymous internet nic doesn't cut it for me on the 'expert' stakes either.

however gareth malone is an expert.

unless having a distinction from the academy and a very successful high profile career comes a poor second to reportedly being related to someone who plays guitar on a cruise ship. or something. ”

Again, how rude. I have no idea who Gareth Malone is; choral music isn't my thing, nor are cruise ships.
miles19740
12-12-2011
Originally Posted by Wiskas:
“...And yes, I have sung on several number 1 singles and albums...”

Auto tuned and multi-tracked I expect.

Quote:
“...I have no idea who Gareth Malone is; choral music isn't my thing, nor are cruise ships.”

He appears on BBC2. He is great.

Choral music and cruise ships may not be your thing, doesn't mean they aren't good. I hate Heavy Metal, doesn't mean it isn't loved by some.
flowerpowa
12-12-2011
It would be lovely if they managed to get the Christmas No.1 Instead of those overated wannabees 'littlemix' from the x factor.
samiskim
12-12-2011
These women are wives of the military. Their husband are posted to Afghanistan and I can't imagine what they go through when their spouses are doing their tour of duty. Gareth Malone wanted to give these ladies a voice because he believes when you sing, you come together and it would also give them something else to concentrate on. I think he is inspirational and I wish he was the musical director of a choir in my area.

For all the moaning minnies out there - just step back for a bit and imagine yourself in their place. How you would cope in the same circumstances? It must be heartbreaking to count the sleeps before you see your loved one again and have in the back of your mind will I ever see him again. I think it is wonderful that Chris Evans is plugging their record and what a fantastic experience for them to appear on "Strictly". I would far rather buy their record than a contestant from The X Factor - who just want fame.
Dawn Sun
13-12-2011
Originally Posted by poppyr:
“I recorded the results show and agree with the posters who thought the singing was well below par, I ended up fast forwarding it. I don't understand why people are not allowed to criticise their singing just because they are "Military Wives" what has that got to do with it? Everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be allowed to express it no matter who the performers are.

Regarding the miitary aspect of the choir I have lots of male relatives, including my father, who were in the 2nd world war they had no choice as they were conscripted. My father and all of my uncles hated every minute of it and could never understand why anyone would choose a job where you are trained to kill , which could often include innocent civilians, where you are not allowed an opinion, and you are at the mercy of the decisions of whoever is in political power which now includes the Americans.

My cousins son has just left the Army after being in Afghanistan, much to her relief, as he has found out the hard way just how ugly war is and how many innocent people suffer because of it.

People in the armed forces now make a conscious decision to join unlike my fathers generation many of whom were just lambs to the slaughter.”

Great post.

I muted it because the singing wasn't very good. I mute lots of stuff that I don't like, I fast forward lots of stuff I don't like. I post on forums that I don't like some of the stuff I see and hear, but because this is about the military I should keep my opinion to myself if I don't like it?

My dad and uncles too were in the RAF and none of them would have any reticence about criticising a song sung by people who couldn't stay in tune whoever they were. They were also conscripted and couldn't wait to get out when their time was up! One of my uncles almost had a nervous breakdown during his time he hated it so much.

What is this preciousness we have these days about the armed forces that now seems to have moved into the realms of not being allowed to mention their badly singing wives?

Everyone suffers heartache, pain and suffering in their lives, it's not just the preserve of the armed forces and their wives.
poppyr
13-12-2011
Originally Posted by samiskim:
“These women are wives of the military. Their husband are posted to Afghanistan and I can't imagine what they go through when their spouses are doing their tour of duty. Gareth Malone wanted to give these ladies a voice because he believes when you sing, you come together and it would also give them something else to concentrate on. I think he is inspirational and I wish he was the musical director of a choir in my area.

For all the moaning minnies out there - just step back for a bit and imagine yourself in their place. How you would cope in the same circumstances? It must be heartbreaking to count the sleeps before you see your loved one again and have in the back of your mind will I ever see him again. I think it is wonderful that Chris Evans is plugging their record and what a fantastic experience for them to appear on "Strictly". I would far rather buy their record than a contestant from The X Factor - who just want fame.”

Thank you Dawn Sun you have summed up exactly how I feel. We are rapidly turning in to America the great "Land of the Free" that is of course unless you criticise their decision to attack another country then you are seen as some sort of leper and unpatriotic.

With regard to your post Samiskin of course the wives, husbands and families of anyone in the armed forces must have a hard time I don't deny that but as I keep saying it's a choice they make. I wouldn't put myself in that position because I would not marry someone who was in the armed forces for the reasons I posted earlier, you are trained to kill, you are not allowed an opinion, and you are at the mercy of whoever is in Government. This is the only way they can operate and I personally would not want to be with someone who could do a job like that. Everyone has their own personal opinion on this but it does seem as Dawn Sun says that the armed forces are now so precious that you cannot comment on their badly singing wives, I couldn't have put it better myself.
millie3
13-12-2011
While there is truth in that people have a choice in whether to enlist I think it needs to be remembered that these are mostly working class boys often living in areas of high unemployment where there isnt much else for them in the way of employment!
primer
13-12-2011
Originally Posted by Wiskas:
“How very rude.

And yes, I have sung on several number 1 singles and albums.”

gosh. i would have thought anyone with such a glittering international career and so many hits under their belt wouldn't feel it necessary to attack a bunch of housewives who will disappear as quickly as they arrived. i mean, there are worse crimes against music out there. not any of your hits i hope.

Quote:
“Again, how rude. I have no idea who Gareth Malone is; choral music isn't my thing,”

i get where you are coming from. a position of ignorance on that which you consider yourself entitled to pronounce as an expert.

and you call me rude. :sleep:
shrew
13-12-2011
... looks like this has turned into another 'Forces Bashing' exercise. Sad. Very sad.

I didn't like the singing nor am I going to buy the record but I am very closely tied to the Forces and I know a lot of women who got a wee bit of comfort from seeing them sing on TV. That for me is nice.

To be honest. I feel for the Military wives (all of them - not just the ones that are singing), as my OH is in the Army but not deployed (at the mo! - I live in fear though and I was 'in' myself so God knows how these women must feel!).

... The group I really feel for though are the Military Mums. I well-up everytime I think about my own and when I phoned her to say I was 'warned' for Afghan.
Scarlett Berry
13-12-2011
Excellent post Dawn Sun, my sentiments exactly
poppyr
13-12-2011
Originally Posted by millie3:
“While there is truth in that people have a choice in whether to enlist I think it needs to be remembered that these are mostly working class boys often living in areas of high unemployment where there isnt much else for them in the way of employment!”

I totally agree with your comment and this is why I do feel sorry for some of the people in the armed forces because these are the type of people the army recruit. As someone who grew up on a deprived council estate I think it's disgraceful that some young people see this as their only option and the armed forces still operates very much in the class system which needs to be stamped out. How many politicians sons are fighting in Afghanistan, yet they are happy to make the decision to send many young people from poor working class backgrounds to risk their lives. You just have to watch Michael Moore's excellent film Fahrenhiet 9/11 to see this in action.

This thread should have been about opinions on the performance of an act on the results show but the minute someone dared to criticise the singing ability of the choir some overly sensitive posters made it personal and not about the singing when they said we should get behind the choir because they are military wives. I for one will not keep quiet when some posters take umbrage at the fact that you dare to criticise the singing just because their husbands are in the military.

On the Aloe Blacc Yay or Nay thread some people didn't like his performance but I didn't see that turning personal and posters saying something ludicrous like you shouldn't criticise him because he's black. They all gave their opinions about his performance but on this thread some people seem so blinkered that they cannot stand people criticising the musical abillity of a choir of military wives.
shrew
13-12-2011
Originally Posted by poppyr:
“I totally agree with your comment and this is why I do feel sorry for some of the people in the armed forces because these are the type of people the army recruit. As someone who grew up on a deprived council estate I think it's disgraceful that some young people see this as their only option and the armed forces still operates very much in the class system which needs to be stamped out. How many politicians sons are fighting in Afghanistan, yet they are happy to make the decision to send many young people from poor working class backgrounds to risk their lives. You just have to watch Michael Moore's excellent film Fahrenhiet 9/11 to see this in action.”

... um. Didn't the PrinceofHarry go (admittedly sandwiched between two rather large Fijians). That it, until he was 'bubbled' by the Aussie press. Apparently it was his Gran who told him he was off.

Don't feel sorry my OH - He signed on the dotted line to escape poverty/kill babies/because he can't do anything else and has to be told how and when to breathe... etc... Therefore deserves everything he'll get/ has got in the past.

Including peeps making weird assumptions about his level of education, socio-economic background, politics and mental health.

Originally Posted by poppyr:
“This thread should have been about opinions on the performance of an act on the results show...”

um... quite. Totally agree.

Originally Posted by poppyr:
“ ...but the minute someone dared to criticise the singing ability of the choir some overly sensitive posters made it personal and not about the singing when they said we should get behind the choir because they are military wives. I for one will not keep quiet when some posters take umbrage at the fact that you dare to criticise the singing just because their husbands are in the military.”

... Actually agree with this too. But you don't have to be then start going on about your opinions about people who have signed up... I mean, valid as they may be, I think they may have contributed to the thread going off the rails somewhat.

Originally Posted by poppyr:
“On the Aloe Blacc Yay or Nay thread some people didn't like his performance but I didn't see that turning personal and posters saying something ludicrous like you shouldn't criticise him because he's black. They all gave their opinions about his performance but on this thread some people seem so blinkered that they cannot stand people criticising the musical abillity of a choir of military wives.”

totally true.

That is all.
Doghouse Riley
13-12-2011
A few like me pointed out the lead singer was out of key.
That was a fact, no denying it. Then it all seemed to kick off.
The answer to that was "yes" but all sorts of qualifying excuses were made for it.
I certainly wasn't decrying the merits of producing such a record. But if you're given such a wonderful opportunity with plenty of notice to promote a record the profits from which are going to a worthy cause, the least you could do is get it right.
Lindy_Loue
13-12-2011
Originally Posted by peeve:
“I was looking forward to this but, alas, was disappointed.

As others have said, it was utterly inappropriate for the audience to cheer Vincent & Flavia during the dance. Either no dancing at all, or an instruction from the floor manager to be respectful to the singers would have sufficed. I don't know whether the singers were put off by all of that, or just overwhelmed by the experience (although they coped with Remembrance Sunday at the Albert Hall with aplomb), but they did seem subdued and off-voice.

Never mind. I know they are not great singers (except for Sam, the lead singer, who used to sing in a choir) but I would far rather listen to them than the caterwauling of whoever wins X Factor tonight. I just heard the two Christmas offerings from Marcus thingy and Little Mix and, erm, give me off-key, amateur military wives any day of the week.

This is how it should have sounded. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hR6O...ure=plpp_video

Oh, and it's on sale from 19th November or can be pre-ordered from Amazon, with all proceeds going to the Royal British Legion and SSAFA rather than Simon Cowell - and if that's not a good enough reason to see it at number one at Christmas, I don't know what is!*

*With apologies to the moderators as I probably shouldn't be advertising but, hey, it's a good cause. ”

Thank you very much for this link - I now feel I have heard the song and understand what it's about - sadly I really didn't get this from Strictly - much as I usually love Vincent and Flavia's dancing - perhaps it was a last minute thought by the producers, and not well thought out.

I'll buy the CD by the way
poppyr
13-12-2011
Originally Posted by shrew:
“... um. Didn't the PrinceofHarry go (admittedly sandwiched between two rather large Fijians). That it, until he was 'bubbled' by the Aussie press. Apparently it was his Gran who told him he was off.

Don't feel sorry my OH - He signed on the dotted line to escape poverty/kill babies/because he can't do anything else and has to be told how and when to breathe... etc... Therefore deserves everything he'll get/ has got in the past.

Including peeps making weird assumptions about his level of education, socio-economic background, politics and mental health

um... quite. Totally agree.



... Actually agree with this too. But you don't have to be then start going on about your opinions about people who have signed up... I mean, valid as they may be, I think they may have contributed to the thread going off the rails somewhat.



totally true.

That is all.”

I don't mean to offend your OH or anyone else but it is a fact that a lot of people from poorer backgrounds do join up because of high unemployment. I saw it with my own eyes growing up in a deprived area and that is why I have strong opinions on this subject.

This thread went off the rails because of some posters who didn't keep it to a purely musical critique of an act on the results show. I would never have given my opinion on this subject but when people post things you don't agree with then you are entitled to respond and give your reasons why you disagree with them.
AntoniaA
13-12-2011
I'm all for it and find them extremely moving but don't think they are good enough to be on air.
Dorabella14
13-12-2011
Originally Posted by Lorelei Lee:
“I'm a hard-boiled old bird and don't sob easily at sad movies, reality shows, puppies on adverts etc - but that flippin' Military Wives song has me welling up every time.

It annoys me all the more because, as some of the braver posters have pointed out, the Military Wives aren't outstanding singers, nor is the song particularly brilliant, and the lyrics drawn from letters are fairly maudlin. So why is my apathy towards their skills - and, I should say, my dislike of the jingoistic attitude towards 'our boys' - so totally overridden by the giant lump in my throat?

The best job I can do of analysing why is to say, as others have, that it's the universal appeal to human emotions in the song that does it - the fear for their other half, the need to come across as brave and strong to reassure them, the words of support to spur them on etc. I can't listen to the song without thinking about women writing down these words and worrying about their fellas on the front line.

And that transcends all the other rubbish about what we're supposed to think, or asked to think, or forced to think. What we feel is a much better barometer of whether something is right and worthy, or not.”

Thanks to Lorelei for putting all the bitchiness of some of the posters on this thread into perspective.You can be brave about pointing out a few flaws in the performance, but still accept the performance and the reason for the choir's gig on Strictly. But moving from there to personal disgust that the choir sang at all is unbelievably rude. Badly done, those people, badly done.

This choir was never booked as professional or semi-professional - so why on earth expect a professional-standard performance? Recently formed for a well-publicised reason, not with a very large programme and not singing in the supportive atmosphere of Remembrance in the Albert Hall but as a time-filler in an atmosphere of glitz and tinsel - they did very well under the horrible circumstances.

How many of you know that butterflies in the stomach cramp your diaphragm, you can't breathe in properly, so you run out of breath, you lose control of pitch, etc etc etc and this would be especially true for the soloist., who should have been given a standing mike, not a heavy hand-held one.

The singers would have known there would be a couple dancing out front, and probably this would have helped rather than hindered.
From the TV viewer's point of view the audience were relatively well behaved, giving Flavia and Vincent some applause but nothing like the usual kindergarten caterwhauling. Sadly there were two determined whoopers. (Why has nobody yet shot the floor managers?)

So, in my family with members in the military in current generation and going back 5 generations, I support the choir's efforts and performance and hope that a lot of people will be prompted to buy the single. It doesn't have to make number one, it just has to raise money for a well-deserving charity and UK audiences are good at that.

In my most recent performance on stage in an amateur symphony orchestra, I and 79 other players gave it our all, and the audience demanded an encore. Why shouldn't amateurs perform in public? Sometimes what we produce is more heartfelt than the output of professionals and means more to the players.

That was certainly the case with Gareth Malone's choir. I just hope he doesn't drop them after Christmas in search of his next programme -or if he does, then a new conductor should be found for them. After all, they have only just found their feet.
tangoqueen
13-12-2011
Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley:
“A few like me pointed out the lead singer was out of key.
That was a fact, no denying it. Then it all seemed to kick off.
The answer to that was "yes" but all sorts of qualifying excuses were made for it.
I certainly wasn't decrying the merits of producing such a record. But if you're given such a wonderful opportunity with plenty of notice to promote a record the profits from which are going to a worthy cause, the least you could do is get it right.”

awww Doghouse don't be a meanie-bum.

Sometimes we need to step outside our own pickiness and realise the reason they were on the show - we all would so dearly love things to be different for their loved ones who look after this country, and for me, it stepped completely outside the need to be perfectly performed.

Lorelei was right in saying the following "And that transcends all the other rubbish about what we're supposed to think, or asked to think, or forced to think. What we feel is a much better barometer of whether something is right and worthy, or not. "

It wasn't the sharpest performance in the world, no, but what transcended was the sheer feeling and heartfelt sentiment of it, and I hope everyone who possibly can, will support by buying the CD.

That was the point of it all for me, in whatever level of competency or otherwise it came, to support our armed forces through the amazing efforts of their wives and partners, in being brave enough to do something like this for them.

Like many too, much though I truly love Vincent and Flavia - that wasn't the moment to dance. It should have been left to the wives to perform on their own. V&F were, through no fault of their own because they performed beautifully, a distraction and one I didn't at that point want to see.

Well done the Wives - hope it gets to no 1!
Butterflygirl
13-12-2011
As others have said, as much as I enjoyed Vincent & Flavia's dancing I don't think it was right for that. I personally couldn't even hear the singing for the audience cheering practically every step they took.

It took immense courage for the 'wives' to get up there and it was a shame that there wasn't the attention paid that they deserved.
lundavra
13-12-2011
It Takes Two should really ask someone behind Strictly Come Dancing about it but they never ask awkward questions like that.

There should have either been
1. No dancers
2. A very plain dance not designed to get the audience too excited
3. A request to the audience to show the singers respect and not interrupt their singing.
4. Re-recorded the number without the interruptions from the audience.

Zoe should have asked why they did not done one of these.
Merity
14-12-2011
Originally Posted by Butterflygirl:
“As others have said, as much as I enjoyed Vincent & Flavia's dancing I don't think it was right for that. I personally couldn't even hear the singing for the audience cheering practically every step they took.

It took immense courage for the 'wives' to get up there and it was a shame that there wasn't the attention paid that they deserved.”

Totally agree.
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