New hours for 32 Big Deal. Currently showing pyscic live.

Also placeholder on 795 saying 'this service has moved. Rescan to continue watching'

That's only just happened in the last 8 minutes since I checked!
The return of the dreaded 795 as well.

Big Deal: new multiplex Arq B. I assume post-DSO only. Check anyone in Merdian, London, Tyne Tees or Ulster confirm if you see any changes.

Looks like LCN 795 has now been designated the shunt-off channel. When a channel changes multiplex, some receivers will automatically store the new channel slot and shunt the old channel slot down to 795, with the new channel slot either being added at 8xx or in the correct, original position - depending on receiver.

Any reports from pre-DSO UK?

yup it's a post DSO only day. I'll retire to Freesat and watch the changes there.

No pre DSO changes at all.

So are there two new streams on Arq B? Any timings for Big Deal? Will there be something filling Rocks & Cos old slot 1pm-6pm? Or is that Big Deal 2?

So Big Deal remains on Mux C in your area from 3am tonight? Wondering if an adult channel will get the slot in post-DSO regions on the equivalant Arqiva A multiplex.

Here from the Emley Moor Transmitter
Big Deal is on air right now showing JCM Direct Channel. The other Bigdeal is on 795. AlJazeera seems to be keeping there 6-11pm hours according to the on-screen graphic. TVX says 12-3am or 1-3am. Rocks and co is airing from 1-11pm but in there rolling text area it also says 1-6pm as well. So these channels seems to compensate the post and pre DSO regions by the looks of it.

These channels seem to have compensated for both pre and pro regions

Post Regions

TVX - 12-3am
Rocks and Co - 1-11pm
TJC - still 24hrs
Big Deal - Extended hrs (24hrs????)

Pre Regions

TVX 1-3am
Rocks and Co 1-6pm
TJC = No sure but prosuming its still 24hrs in those areas.
Big Deal = From the forums its still 3-6pm but needed more info.

Al Jazeera has not changed it seems and no other changes by the looks of it. Only Connect 1-3 HD services with no graphics.

This is interesting indeed about big deal tv in Post areas.
My tv guide says its live from 11pm and i think its time sharing with AlJazeera Eng from 6-11pm. So my assumption is that in post areas its live from 11pm till 6pm.

Oh, now that is interesting. So, it might turn out that Big Deal and AJE are now timesharing in the new slot, and Rocks & Co have expanded the old slot... meaning there's only one new slot. That would also make sense - Big Deal is usually used as a placeholder channel when Arqiva don't want to waste income; I expect it'll be down to a few hours in the morning again within the coming months. So, I'd expect either AJE to expand to 24 hours, or another channel to launch timesharing with AJE and perhaps the remains of Big Deal.





EDIT: Hang on, it's already gone 6, hasn't it - is Big Deal offair post-DSO, can someone check?

Big Deal is off air post DSO.

Yep, Big Deal showing an MHEG "programmes back at 11pm"

(also mentions a Twitter account that hasn't been updated since Big Deal stopped showing gambling)

Ah, brilliant! So, we can properly confirm what happened:

* A new stream has been created post-DSO, with Big Deal and Al Jazeera English moving from their current slots into it. Al Jazeera has kept its current timing, and Big Deal expanded to fill the big gaps. So, Rocks & Co. 1 and TVX have moved into Al Jazeera English's and Big Deal's old space respectively.

Al Jazeera hasn't moved anywhere. Have not bothered to re-tune yet and Al Jazeera is on now......so it hasn't moved off ARQ B.

No, it's just moved onto another stream on Arq B - and since streams aren't actually things, just neat ways to visualise timesharing arrangements, it will not require a rescan.

Yes, sorry, mis-read what you wrote.

Slightly off topic-ish. I take it that red hot is no longer as it says it has moved to channel 93......or TVX no more?

It appears redhot is dead. TVX still there (on SDN) but it's hours have changed.

This is how I see it at the moment, following the change to the Big Deal service. If anyone can correct/update, I'd be grateful:
So what happens to Big Deal's old slot on Arqiva A, I wonder?


(Changes to TVX/Redhot as discussed in the TVX moving thread relate to Mux A/SDN and therefore probably not relevant to the discussion here).

Mmm... I don't know why, I had it confused with TVX, no idea why I thought it would be expanding...


Can someone tell me, though, why TVX's times are apparently different pre/post-DSO? Or is that not actually the case? (It's been posted a few times that they are...)

I don't think so, check the thread at http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1591362
It appears TVX will be 0000-0400 on the 5☆ stream on SDN/Mux A, which is the same everywhere.

In effect, two different things are at hand here:

1. Changes on Arqiva A/B post DSO following the activation of an additional stream using extra 3Mbps capacity created by the FEC change with what appears to be temporary channels.

This is what has resulted in the changes to Big Deal as discussed here.
Also resulting in the changes to Rocks and Co (see thread)

2. Changes on SDN/Mux A as a result of a stream being cleared for the launch of C5+1 next Tuesday.
Three things have/are happening because of this
a.) GOLD/ Home getting revised hours and being slotted in before ESPN (See Top Up TV threads)
b.) Top Up TV Anytime 3 being slotted in overnights possibly during the times when C5+1 wouldn't be able to broadcast due to gambling.
c.) TVX moving to the 5* stream, content from 191 being merged together with 93 into one channel (see the thread linked to above).

You'd think they could have removed the Twitter account when they updated the MHEG. Of course, Big Deal with the name of the show when it originally started. Big Deal is just a placeholder for third party content now, so I doubt there would ever be a need for the Twitter account again.

On Big Deal (LCN 32), it had teleshopping upto 5.59pm. Then the stream switched to Psychic Today. But a minute later, the stream switched to a MHEG with the EPG stating that Psychic Today is back @ 11pm. This implies that Psychic Today have sublet their primetime hours to Rocks & Co. during the Xmas sales period. Rocks & Co. live auctions end @ 11pm so no benefit broadcasting past 11pm on DTT. So it is coincidential that Al Jazeera and Rocks & Co, both end their DTT broadcast hours @11pm. IMHO LCN 40 (Rocks & Co) switches from Stream 8 to Stream 11 @ 6pm...

pre-DSO (Mux D) and post-DSO (Arqiva B)
Streams 1-7 No change (Yesterday, 4 Music, Ideal World, VIVA, Film 4, ITV4, Russia Today)
Stream 8 No change - existing timeshare QVC Beauty, Rocks & Co, Al Jazeera & ADULT Babestn.

post-DSO (Arqiva B) only
Stream 9/10 no change (Sky Sports 1/2)

Stream 11 launched today
0300-1800 Big Deal's teleshopping
1800-2300 Psychic Today sublet to Rocks & Co.
2300-0300 Psychic Today

I doubt the completion of the DSO will make any major change of the calibre of channels timesharing this stream. ITVplc has "The Zone" between 6pm-6am in pre-DSO and post-DSO regions except in Wales. And they have only been able to attract Jackpot 247 and teleshopping.

The Psychic programmes aired at lunchtime today, so are not limited to evenings.

It is unlikely that the Psychic TV service sublet any capacity to Rocks and Co - Psychic TV themselves are subletting capacity via a third party to Arqiva. I'm not sure if Canis Media or another organisation is behind this arrangement on this occasion. Services like TJC have benefited from subletting temporary capacity under the "Big Deal" channel banner. I also do not think there is any literal stream swapping going on - it could be all "on paper".

At the moment this extra stream is restricted in UK coverage. No commercial broadcaster of any calibre would accept part UK coverage - certainly not without London and the South East given the high costs of accessing DTT and the loss of a substantial audiance (with connected commercial revenue). Some stations like Virgin 1/Channel One/Challenge put up with no full Wales coverage, but in time this was corrected to regain full UK service, and Virgin 1+1 tried to temporarily fill the gap showing that the station did not consider the situation to be ideal. With some services from UKTV evidently LCN hogging, I suspect we will see changes once London switches and a new EPG reshuffle takes place. I also don't think a channel like Al Jazeera would accept extended hours but not in London (an issue raised by others), as for international channels, London viewers are the key audiance.

You highlight "The Zone", which highlights the point that broadcasters don't neccessarily want a time-crippled, coverage crippled service, hence we get teleshopping.
Last edited by a516 : 02-12-2011 at 00:08

Regarding Mux A / SDN, because several large post DSO transmitters will not switch Mux A to SDN, until later, with the last in late June 2012, (Sandy, Heathfield, Sudbury), there is no danger of a FEC change stream appearing until then. So pre DSO == post DSO.

With Arq B, all post DSO have had the FEC change and presumably Arq A is in between somewhere, with nearly all transmitters having had it.

Question for post DSO Arq A Big Deal. Will LCN795 be a simulcast of LCN32 between 3am & 5am? Or is it just vacant space?

I think post 17 is right and the Big Deal stream sharing with Al Jazeera means that Al Jazeera will go 24/7 when it's ready and Big Deal will fade away again.

As far as streams go, as long as the times are correct, there is no right and wrong answer, at least, not one that we'll ever know unless another change occurs - but there is a sensible and non-sensible answer. A sensible answer keeps things nice and simple, with channels "jumping" between streams kept to a minimum - a non-sensible one has lots of jumps. Of course, both of these are right, because as I have said in the past, streams don't actually exist - they're just a nice way of visualising how the timesharing fits together. The encoders/muxers don't care whether or not the slots fit together into nice, discreet streams, they just care that no more than x channels (where x is a number that has been set up, depending on the mux and the quality of the encoder) are broadcasting at once, so you could have all sorts of crazy combinations that you won't fit into a nice set of discreet streams. The reason they do mostly fall into discreet streams is probably because that's how they're sold, mostly, as slots on a stream - but since we'll never no the exact contractual arrangements, it just makes the most sense to put it in the simplest terms possible.

So, the simplest terms possible in this case are the ones in post #17.