Look at past videos of Gaga before she became famous and she was dressed in normal clothes, playing the piano and singing. She was just another singer/songwriter playing clubs in NYC. Singer/songwriters are a dime a dozen in cities all over the world and Gaga obviously had to do something to set herself apart. So in came the attention seeking clothes and the hip producers etc. If she hadn't have done that she probably wouldn't be known today and would still be another struggling singer on the club circuit.

At least Adele remained true to herself and got to where she is by being a fantastic singer with strong material behind her. She's old-school, she doesn't need the tricks and the attention seeking antics to sell records or become successful. She's a breath of fresh air in the current music climate and that's part of the reason why she's doing so well.

The one thing that bugs me about a lot of Gaga's followers is their insistence on treating her and her music like it's the second coming. She's a pop singer. Nothing less, nothing more. She sings average pop music that is no more profound or deep than Britney, Katy Perry or Ke$ha. She relies on shock value, attention seeking outfits and rehashing what artists did 20 years ago to sell records. The meat dress was done way back in 1987, Madonna did the whole religious undertone years ago (and better, may I add) and Annie Lennox dressed as a man way at the Grammys in in 1984. Most of what she does is not art, it's thievery from far superior artists and ones who actually broke ground insteady of rehashing it.

I wouldn't say she had to dumb down to become successful. Although I agree that a lot of what she does is derivative, she's clearly an intelligent lady and puts a hell of a lot of thought and planning into the music and the Gaga image as a whole. She created something that sets her apart from a sea of other female singer/songwriters and pop artists and she's had an impact at a cultural level, something that very few artists achieve. I'd say she has had to do the opposite of dumbing down actually and I'm saying this as someone who wouldn't call herself a Lady Gaga fan.

Adele is a completely different artist and comes from a different tradition. They're both talented and successful in their respective genres so surely there's room for them both.

With all due respect, you have no idea who she is in order to stay "true to herself". Just because she started out at a piano doesn't mean that's where she really wanted or was destined to be as an artist. If Adele began her musical journey playing tambourine in the school band, should she have just stuck with that because it was her roots?

It's patronising to say it's "dumbing down". She clearly has a lot of intelligence to her act. Standing at a microphone doesn't automatically make you a more intelligent person, nor does it make your act more intelligent.

The images and videos we have of her as the brunette singer/songwriter Stefani at a piano wearing normal clothes are from when she was just starting out, ranging from 15-18 years old. Who the hell knows who or what they are at that age, furthermore who can honestly say they are the same person as they were then? People grow, artists evolve.

She soon evolved into The Stefani Germanotta Band, playing glam/rock/pop music, and was Lady Gaga (albeit brunette, but in a disco bra all the same) playing Lollapalooza by age 19/20. She was 23 when she went global with Just Dance, and during those years she honed her craft, worked out who she was and what she had to do to make it.

How is that different to anyone else? She may have taken it to extremes, but when all is said and done, I bet if she hadn't dyed her hair blonde people wouldn't get so caught up over it. It wasn't an over-night transformation where she was the brunette piano playing Stefani then BAM disco-stick twirling blonde Gaga.

Regarding the last paragraph; if you're going to dismiss her for not inventing the things that she does and rehashing ideas past into new ways, then you better be prepared for holding the likes of Madonna accountable for doing the exact same. Not here for double standards.

Its clear to anyone that gaga is only in the position she is in due to the way she acts and what she does rather than the music.

Ah, yet another Gaga vs. Adele thread. :yawn:

I really am starting to believe that the ones who are obsessed with Gaga are not her fans, but her haters.

But to reply to your title, isn't it blatantly obvious that she did the exact opposite of "dumbing herself down" when she became Lady Gaga? She differentiated herself from hundreds of her singer-songwriter peers and in doing so, became the the biggest female pop artist on the planet.

That's pretty genius from where I'm standing.

Can we all just agree that Rebecca Black Slays both of them?

kthanksbye.

That's right. Anybody who buys Gaga's music is just a blind consumer being led by the big music machine and is incapable of forming opinions of his/her own.

Could you be any more condescending?

Musically both Gaga and Adele are quite basic and dumbed down, that's why they've sold so much. Mosts of their songs are average with only a couple of genuinely good songs each in my opinion. There are plenty of more musically creative and talented female artists around than those two.

Gaga is actually pretty good, the only criticism i have about her is she pushes the boundaries in every aspect but the music which is conventional if not a little dated

for that reason i think she should cut the antics down and just sing cos she can do that well enough to stand on it's own merit. Unless she really pushes the music too then that'd be worth the antics.

I'm not a massive Gaga fan but one thing I have to say is that, yes, she does all the glittery, shiny pop star stuff (very well I might add) but when it comes down to it she can just sit at her piano and bang out incredible performances which are musically brilliant and sometimes moving. She totally holds her own in the popstar arena. She deserves her standing and fame. Plus if she wants to liven things up with some crazy antics and costumes, I welcome that. If Popworld was full of Adeles and Coldplays, it would be a very grey place.

Exactly. It sounds like I don't rate Gaga or Adele at all in my post above but I do think they are two of the more talented mainstream female artists around at the moment. The trouble is Gaga's creativity doesn't extend to her music and Adele's voice is let down by average MOR songs (bar a couple). Still, they've sold mountains of records and that's all most people care about.

Why compare them both they are utterly different and however you look at it objectively i would say Gaga has played her game well to get where she is sold out or not she is a smart business woman that knows how to sell her product she is ruthless like Madonna before her and she knws without the act she wouldnt be half as big so i say good for her.

Who wore a meat dress in 1987?

I must be naive in thinking this should be the priority for any singer/musician.

Not if you want to sell alot of records. Or maybe it is but they haven't got the talent to pull it off so it doesn't seem like it is .

It's all well and good using whatever means possible to get peoples attention, but what you do with it then, is what sorts the men out from the boys.

Dumbed down? Hardly. Used her musical skill to appeal to a broader market and push the boundaries of what's acceptable in pop music and pop culture? Probably.

If she did 'dumb down' she clearly hasn't gone far enough for certain people

I cringe when people look at her as if she's this spirtual person who is weird and makes people feel "free". When you look at Just Dance/Poker Face the videos were not weird at all and completley normal. When I saw her support PCD she didn't dress weirdly at all and again was normal. She's not this person who has always been a "freak" it's complete lies. She knew that people found her interesting and therefore started to do things that would shock. She's fake as anything but I do like her music but I am not one of them stupid "little monsters" Honestly the hardcore fans are pyscho and do nothing but talk about her and how she's changed their lives. How can she really change your life? She's just a pop star!

I don't think she has had to dumb herself down but she is an actor. What she does is act. It's all performance and she knows without the acting all she has is her music and the people producing the music are not doing anything different than what is already in the charts and her writing doesn't exactly lend itself well to their production. It only really comes alive during live performances when real music is actually being played, not drums and bass guitars that are computer generated and not real and vocals that have layers up on layers all with various effects. It's not natural but that's what sells now.

Adele can be considered a real artist because she does just sing over the instrumental, an instrumental which has been made by real musicians, real guitars, real drums, real bass. It feels and literally is a real band playing on the record but it's not Adele and her band it's just Adele. Just like it's not Lady Gaga and her band it's just Lady Gaga and therefore she will get judged for the music aswell even though she doesn't produce the music on her records. People hear the beat and realise it's the same as everything else in the charts and they write it off, they hear Adele's and they hear real instruments with real melodys and someone singing with no post production effects on her voice. That's why there is an argument about Lady Gaga vs Adele.

But at the end of the day I wish them both well. They weren't Artist of the Decade from 2000-2010. Eminem was and he sold over 80 million albums to do it, that didn't include his Recovery album's sales since it came out in 2010 after the figures were released but including that album he has over 90 million albums sold and God knows how many singles sold. I see Lady Gaga has sold over 25 million albums so far and that's within 3 years so we'll see what the next 7 bring and the same with Adele. If they can sell 90 million albums in 10 years then i will consider them as being important musical figures but so far they got a lot of work to do and when you start talking about sales figures like that, really puts into perspective who the real music stars are.

Someone who flaunts themselves in public everyday and attends all the awards ceremonies and goes to the big parties in Hollywood and is doing all the TV chat shows or a recluse who lives in Detroit Michigan, the furthest thing away from glamour and Hollywood, is kind enough to record video messages for award shows where he wins awards, doesn't even go to the Oscars to accept an award even though he was told in advance he had won an Oscar (don't see Lady Gaga or Adele winning Oscars) so he could stay home with his daughter and watch TV. It really does show who the stars are. A recluse who sells 90 million in 10 years and barely shows his face > someone who acts and tries their hardest and has their face on everything but still cant quite get people to go and physically pay money for their albums instore.

I agree with the first post ..gaga would never have sold as many records if she didnt appeal to the gay community either ...she uses this to her advantage ..thats what i hate about her ..why cant she just be herself ..strip down her gimmicks and image and fake persona and just be the artist thats underneath all that giltter and gold ...ill tell you why ...because she wouldnt sell records ..youll see when she strips it down eventually with a album ..it wont sell aswell as her others ...when she runs out of madonnas career moves ..she will also decline in sales ...adele is a real artist and makes beautifull music and ballads something gaga is yet to do in my opinion ---you and i vs someone like you ....ha ha ...

Madonna was never ruthless

Before Madonna, who was there? There was no one, not everything Madonna did was original but no one had seen anything like her before. She was the original even if some of the ideas she copied were from other outlets but as far as her outlet was concerned ie MUSIC, there was no one like her. That's why people over a certain age talk about Madonna, they say Madonna because when they were growing up that's who they had like Lady Gaga. Madonna was their generations Lady Gaga, they've seen it all before but then you have the younger fans who either are only just hearing about Madonna or who only got to experience Madonna at the tail end of her peak (late 90's) so the whole Lady Gaga act is really their first time experiencing an act like Lady Gaga and Madonna but they're old enough to have heard a bit of Madonna when she was active and they're hearing everything from Gaga so they compare everything.


The best thing to do is let Lady Gaga's fans or munsters or whatever they're called get on with it. It's like films and TV shows. I love Jack Nicholson, there will never be another Jack Nicholson but the kids love this Robert person from Twilight. All the great comedy shows from the 80's that get repeated on cable TV now, that's the real funny stuff but ask anyone under 30 now and they will point to Jimmy Carr or Michael McIntyre. It's not that they're not very good or anything, it's just that we have seen it all before and in most cases we have seen it done by far better actors. Let this generation have their Lady Gaga, it's their first time experiencing someone like this. Robert Pattinson is our generations Jack Nicholson. Everything gets recycled.

gaga ripped off madonnas music and her image and career movies - its a well known fact ..i just enjoy pointing it out to stupid troll gaga fans who refuse to accept it lol

I get the feeling this was started as an anti-Gaga thread, and I don't condone anti-anyone threads, but Lady Gaga is rife for criticism.
I will agree that she should in no way be treated as some second coming of pop, because, the OP actually has a point: Gaga dumbed herself down in order to make it into the music Industry. Not intellectually, but physically and musically.
Gaga was signed by AKON! AKON FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! Her debut was great! She made fun pop music and had an air of eccentricity around her and she carried herself like a perfectly formed popstar.
But...
When you examine her pre-The Fame and post-The Fame Monster, that is not the Gaga who captured everyones hearts really. To me, personally they are two completely different people.
Pre-The Fame she was 21/22 and if she did not want to make Jazzy, Piano music she would not have been in that music sector. Don't quote me on this because i cannot remember where from, but I distinctly remember wither Akon or Gaga in an early interview saying that when he signed her he suggested she went for a pop-dance-R'n'B sound, and for her to find a unique fashion style... birthing the "The Fame" Gaga.
That all worked great and she exploded onto the scene... The Fame and TF Monster were HUGE! But then...
Cue Born This Way. Yes some of the music is still dance-pop... but instead of having an air of fun and eccentricity she just developed this aire of superiority and became too serious. Her music and her message do not connect well for me. She wants to be taken seriously as an artist (The artist that she intended to be pre-The Fame) but the music which brought her success and adoration isn't her preferred music type. It is clear that shes trying to bring her past self into the spotlight now that she has the platform. "Marry the Night", "You and I", and "The Edge of Glory" are based on her past or influenced by Jazz. Even the MTN video shows us who she was (and ultimately is). She never strikes me as happy either, almost as though she feels like she needs to put on an act.
So... that is my opinion. Merely an opinion. I've given evidence for my opinion, and my own thoughts arn't going to change so any Stans that try and discredit that won't really work. That isn't to say that I won't take on board other opinions, but right now I can sense a little bit of Gaga-fan backlash.

I stated at the top of the post that I don't like anti-anyone threads, and I do actually like Gaga... but more "The Fame" Gaga than "Born This Way" Gaga.

robert will never win a oscar