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Sorry Chelsee, just can't feel your passion


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Old 12-12-2011, 13:57
Veri
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I agree Harry's improvement in his ballroom posture/top-line was significant. Only casual viewers and those who simply vote for Harry because he's fit (or they are loyal Mcfly fans) can't see the improvement.

Based on that, I think Chelsee has improved significantly as well. In the beginning, she's quite throw-away with her movements (see her waltz in week one) and they when you compared with her Quickstep, she was much more controlled, and even more so when you see her attempting that AMAZING AS in the semi. People who can't see that improvement in Chelsee either didn't have a single clue about dancing or simply didn't like her as a celeb.

Even Jason has improved somewhat in his ballroom technique. He looked unnatural and stiff in the foxtrot week and in the Quickstep, his posture was so improved Kristina even let him do the ballroom hold ALONE in the beginning. How cool is that?
Is there some reason why the people who disagree have to be disparaged?

You are talking about relatively minor improvements, not the stuff of which a journey's made. Harry's been on a "journey" that improved his ballroom posture/top-line. Gee, that's exciting. Can I get the film rights?

Chelsee's Quickstep was ages ago. It was in October! If comparing it to week 1 is supposed to show a journey, it's one that was quickly finished. As for the "AMAZING AS", "forgettable" is what I'd say. I cannot remember a single thing about it. Her October Quickstep is still one of her best dances, and even though I found it annoying at the time, it's the only one of her dances I'd chose to watch again for enjoyment.

Jason improved "somewhat". Well, fine. That's not a journey. He even seemed to get worse for a while.
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Old 12-12-2011, 16:36
mindyann
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Im sure Chelsee topped the leader board Wembley week alongside Alex.

Thats Chelsee topping the leader board 4 times not 3

Quickstep
Charleston
Salsa (Wembley week joint with Alex)
Jive

Thats 4 times compared to Harry's 3

Chelsee has also achieved a 40 when Harry hasnt.
Yes, she did

However, like I said, Harry's aggregate position is the highest at 2.36 to Chelsee's 2.45 and Jason's 2.81.

Scorewise (excluding the swinamajiggywotsit), Harry averages 34.5, Chelsee 34.0 and Jason 34.0 - so really all pretty much of a muchness with Harry slightly edging it as overall top.
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Old 13-12-2011, 11:58
blackberry000
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Wow, his top half is so bulky and heavy in the foxtrot and his rise and fall is really jerky. And his hands...

And there's a noticeable improvement in his confidence and leading ability. I mean that quickstep is HOT! I really they do it in the final. The Blackpool floor is simply amazing to do a quickstep on. And they're clearly short of space for the QS in BBC studio. (are they going to Winter Gardens or Blackpool tower?)

The improvement is even noticeable by Waltz week, during the few bars he actually danced waltz. Although the rise and fall is still a bit jerky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whw8gwDCAjI

But I can't believe his upper body movement and posture improved so much in 2 weeks. It takes most people months if not years to get from Harry's foxtrot week to his S Waltz and then QS weeks.

I think i people can't notice the difference will either be non-dancers (or non-dance appreciators.... really don't have a better way to put it!) or biased against Harry.
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Old 13-12-2011, 12:03
ewoodie
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Is there some reason why the people who disagree have to be disparaged?

You are talking about relatively minor improvements, not the stuff of which a journey's made. Harry's been on a "journey" that improved his ballroom posture/top-line. Gee, that's exciting. Can I get the film rights?

Chelsee's Quickstep was ages ago. It was in October! If comparing it to week 1 is supposed to show a journey, it's one that was quickly finished. As for the "AMAZING AS", "forgettable" is what I'd say. I cannot remember a single thing about it. Her October Quickstep is still one of her best dances, and even though I found it annoying at the time, it's the only one of her dances I'd chose to watch again for enjoyment.

Jason improved "somewhat". Well, fine. That's not a journey. He even seemed to get worse for a while.
It's usually by an over-keen fan who can't bear their loved one to be criticised in any way. There's a simple answer for those fans; don't look or put up & shut up.
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Old 13-12-2011, 12:08
blackberry000
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Chelsee and Jason have improved loads as well. It's odd we don't normally notice these improvements because we watch them week by week. The improvement is really incredible!

I'm slightly jealous of them now, to be able to get so much private time with a professional dancer and improve their dancing during such a short time Every year I watch SCD I wonder how much I'd be able to improve if I could get 20+ hrs of practice time with one of my teachers every week!
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Old 13-12-2011, 12:16
Cranberryapple
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Every time I post I get slagged off but I think she's poor
Ridiculous isn't it. Some folk should realise this is a discussion forum for giving one's opinion.

Wow! Check out the Chelsee hate.


Is she really so much of a threat for people to be so vile and nasty towards her?

It upsets me, it really does. I hope Chelsee doesn't ever come on here to read some of these remarks.

She's done incredibly well to get this far and Im so proud of her. Couldn't have happened to a nicer girl.
Why is it hate?
Because some others on here don't actually like Chelsee!! It is allowed you know.

Lot's of jealousy.

These haters need to accept the observations of both Craig and Bruno, who rightly point out that Chelsee is "gifted" in dancing. She moves like a dancer, not like a celebrity wanna-be-dancer.
Good lord, another one. So we are haters and are jealous because we don't like Chelsee. Goodness me, this forum gets worse
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:35
bruisedknees
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, I am aware that she is an actress, but the only role I have heard of is her role in Waterloo Road. I don't doubt she has done more work, but that is the role she is known for.
Does anybody know the relevance of this? And why the repetition of the word 'role'? Tautology anyone?
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:41
bruisedknees
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I agree.

Harry, imho is an absolute star on the dance floor. Jason is also amazing. I'm not taking anything away from Chelsea's dancing, yes she is fab at it, but I just can't warm to her, and I have tried, very hard

Harry FTW. I have supported him from day 1. Jason is also 'pulling' at my strings 'tho

Chelsee
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:56
Veri
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Wow, his top half is so bulky and heavy in the foxtrot and his rise and fall is really jerky. And his hands...

And there's a noticeable improvement in his confidence and leading ability. I mean that quickstep is HOT! I really they do it in the final. The Blackpool floor is simply amazing to do a quickstep on. And they're clearly short of space for the QS in BBC studio. (are they going to Winter Gardens or Blackpool tower?)

The improvement is even noticeable by Waltz week, during the few bars he actually danced waltz. Although the rise and fall is still a bit jerky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whw8gwDCAjI

But I can't believe his upper body movement and posture improved so much in 2 weeks. It takes most people months if not years to get from Harry's foxtrot week to his S Waltz and then QS weeks.

I think i people can't notice the difference will either be non-dancers (or non-dance appreciators.... really don't have a better way to put it!) or biased against Harry.
Relatively minor differences remain relatively minor no matter how those who don't think they make a "journey" are disparaged.
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Old 13-12-2011, 17:05
Mystical123
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Wow! Check out the Chelsee hate.
Saying I don't support Chelsee is not 'hate', it's called having an opinion. Yes, some people are being ridiculously rude about her, and that's not on, but don't tar all of us who aren't fans with the same brush. And it works both ways - if your opinion is to be respected, you have to respect that others may think differently!


I have never been 'wowed' by any of Chelsee's dances, including the jive that gets raved about so much - I sometimes wonder was I the only one who saw her spending so much time in a tower at the start of that dance... I know my own favourite has had some dodgy dances too, but I just can't seem to warm to Chelsee, and to be honest I think what I find most disappointing is that for an actress she's really not good at conveying the emotion of a dance, which really should be effortless for her.


Chelsee is technically very good, I think (not an expert here, just from watching all the SCD series) however I don't feel any passion from her. .
I agree entirely.
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Old 13-12-2011, 17:11
katkim
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Saying I don't support Chelsee is not 'hate', it's called having an opinion. Yes, some people are being ridiculously rude about her, and that's not on, but don't tar all of us who aren't fans with the same brush. And it works both ways - if your opinion is to be respected, you have to respect that others may think differently!.
I think context is needed with Sanah's post as it shortly follows a particularly nasty comment about Chelsee. I won't quote it, but it's still there and very likely posted by a WUM since it's their first and only post. If it's a spade, you call it a spade. As you say, people being ridiculously rude is not on. I agree with the sentiment of your comment, but I don't think it applies here. I respect opinions that differ from mine (such as yours), I don't respect trolls who are spewing and venting (like the post I think Sanah is responding to).
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Old 13-12-2011, 17:14
Tiggywink
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I liked Chelsea dances, I think she is the most natural dancer in the competition, but she has problems with control. It's because she's so good her control issues stand out more I think.

Her paso was great, really good, but I'm not so sure about those 10's. She was wobbly on many occasions – in both dances. She also doesn't seem to do intensity too well. She seems a bit self conscious about doing intensity.

She was good, probably the best on the night, but those tens... nah. But then, the scoring has been really over blown this series.
I've just watched it again and I agree with you. There seemed to be a slight lack of sharpness and aggression in the attitude.. a touch too soft really. Nonetheless, I couldnÄt do it so who am I to say!
I also re-watched Harry's VW - God what a dream...
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Old 13-12-2011, 17:15
blackberry000
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Relatively minor differences remain relatively minor no matter how those who don't think they make a "journey" are disparaged.
Saying that someone isn't a dancer or a dance-entusiast, or that they don't like Harry or Chelsee or Jason is not disparaging. The statement is neither negative nor positive.

People who dance, or are enthusiastic about it and watch a lot of dancing and follow it, would think the difference is large. Because a) they have an eye for these things and will be able to spot things that people who don't watch a lot of dancing outside SCD won't be able to; and b) they know how long it ordinarily takes someone to achieve these "minor differences" as you put it.

Good dancing is meant to look effortless, so it's normal for people who are not in the business and don't know what goes into the dance to think less of it than it actually is.

This is one reason why sometimes dances that dancers like are different from dances that non-dancers like. Because while the non-dancers will see the finished product, the dancer will see what is put into it and maybe think "ooh that step is really difficult I love how well s/he is doing it. It's beautiful", while the step itself is actually not very aesthetically pleasing.
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Old 13-12-2011, 17:20
Cranberryapple
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Oops, me bad for getting the correct spelling of Chelsea wrong
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Old 13-12-2011, 17:45
Veri
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Saying that someone isn't a dancer or a dance-entusiast, or that they don't like Harry or Chelsee or Jason is not disparaging. The statement is neither negative nor positive.
The post said "biased" which is clearly disparaging; and in context, the rest was disparaging as well. It talked of people who "can't notice the difference", meaning there is a difference, but they are incapable of noticing it. That too is disparaging. It's also negative and dismissive.

People who dance, or are enthusiastic about it and watch a lot of dancing and follow it, would think the difference is large. Because a) they have an eye for these things and will be able to spot things that people who don't watch a lot of dancing outside SCD won't be able to; and b) they know how long it ordinarily takes someone to achieve these "minor differences" as you put it.
Basically, you're saying those people are correct because they have knowledge and disabilities that those who disagree lack. That's positive about them, and negative about those who disagree.

But I didn't say the differences were minor. I said they were relatively minor. Which they are.

If I wanted to take the same sort of line, I'd say the dancers and dance-appreciators hugely overestimate the significance of such improvements; but I don't think that opinion actually breaks down along such lines.

All three of the finalists started SCD as good dancers by SCD standards; they ended as better dancers, but that's not much of a journey.
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Old 13-12-2011, 19:08
blackberry000
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The post said "biased" which is clearly disparaging; and in context, the rest was disparaging as well. It talked of people who "can't notice the difference", meaning there is a difference, but they are incapable of noticing it. That too is disparaging. It's also negative and dismissive.

Basically, you're saying those people are correct because they have knowledge and disabilities that those who disagree lack. That's positive about them, and negative about those who disagree.
I'm fairly clueless when it comes to football. If I say something like I think there's no difference between Rooney and Ronaldo (I don't even know if I've picked the right players for this example!), and you tell me that there is a huge difference and the reason I don't see it is because I don't know much about football, is that disparaging/dismissive? I personally definitely won't feel like that towards this comment.

Basically, you're saying those people are correct because they have knowledge and disabilities that those who disagree lack. That's positive about them, and negative about those who disagree.
Well that is how it works, the opinion of the person who has knowledge of something about that thing is usually more likely to be correct than the opinion of someone who is not knowledgable about that thing. I don't understand why not having knowledge of dancing is a bad thing, it's just stating a fact. Dancing is just one field out of millions of fields of knowledge, and the reason I for instance am knowledgable in this field is because I've spent all my life studying it, which basically means I don't have a clue about much else. And incidentally that happens to have been pretty useless way of spending my life because with one single injury the my career was effectively over. So definitely don't possess any feeling of superiority over other people regarding the dancing thing.

Maybe the way I said it was patronising?

I guess that does create an imbalance, that at any point in an argument if I disagree I could just say "hey, I'm a dancer and I know better. That thing Jason was dancing on Saturday was not an AT, it was a jive. He should have received 0 marks, been disqualified and kicked out of the building because that's how real dance competitions are run!" But I'm sure there are enough dancers and dance-appreciators on this forum that someone would call me on my bluff!

But I didn't say the differences were minor. I said they were relatively minor. Which they are.
...
All three of the finalists started SCD as good dancers by SCD standards; they ended as better dancers, but that's not much of a journey.
Ok, I need to point out that the post I sent was not at all in response to yours. And then the response I wrote was to your respons which said differences are relatively minor, but not having read your previous post I didn't really notice the "relatively" much or realise what/who you were drawing up comparisons with.

I was saying that to people who keep going on about how Harry/Chelsee/Jason (usually when 1 or 2 of them are set against another) haven't improved much etc etc. And that was a general comment, not just regarding Harry's improvement.

If I wanted to take the same sort of line, I'd say the dancers and dance-appreciators hugely overestimate the significance of such improvements; but I don't think that opinion actually breaks down along such lines.
It is a very fair assumption. And not just when it comes to improvement. Dancers and dance-appreciators see the dances differently than others. And that's not always a good thing. If I had never watched SCD and had only hung around with dancers and competitors of my level I probably would've looked at Chelsee's jive and the only thing I could see would be technical flaws. But now I'm starting to learn to appreciate the other aspects that the celebrities bring to a dance, and it really gives a wider prospect towards dancing.
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Old 13-12-2011, 19:16
HotsforLilia
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I think context is needed with Sanah's post as it shortly follows a particularly nasty comment about Chelsee.
That's right - actually there are some other comments in this thread that, for me, fall into the same category. But only by two other posters...
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Old 13-12-2011, 20:23
penelopesimpson
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I also completely agree.... I think her Paso was very good and very entertaining - but it wasn't perfect.

There is something missing from all her dances and I can't quite put my finger on what it is. Her steps are good, her movement good, choreagraphy is good.... but I always feel when I watch her that she's about to fall flat on her face!! I find something awkward in her dancing and being no expert - I can't really understand why.

Harry on the otherhand just seems to ooze class and good dancing - I love watching him - especially since Aliona has had an epiphany and improved the choreagraphy!
That's just how I feel - there is something missing. Okay, she irritates me but I had to admit that she did the business on Saturday, but still there is just a vacantness where there should be passion. I don't think it's anything to do with her character or anything she can help, she just has a blank expression most of the time and doesn't mesmerise in the way that I need a dancer in the finals to do
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Old 13-12-2011, 20:25
penelopesimpson
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Ridiculous isn't it. Some folk should realise this is a discussion forum for giving one's opinion.



Why is it hate?
Because some others on here don't actually like Chelsee!! It is allowed you know.



Good lord, another one. So we are haters and are jealous because we don't like Chelsee. Goodness me, this forum gets worse
Jealous? Of Chelseeeeeee?
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Old 13-12-2011, 20:26
penelopesimpson
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I think context is needed with Sanah's post as it shortly follows a particularly nasty comment about Chelsee. I won't quote it, but it's still there and very likely posted by a WUM since it's their first and only post. If it's a spade, you call it a spade. As you say, people being ridiculously rude is not on. I agree with the sentiment of your comment, but I don't think it applies here. I respect opinions that differ from mine (such as yours), I don't respect trolls who are spewing and venting (like the post I think Sanah is responding to).
What is a WUM?
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Old 13-12-2011, 20:31
dizzyrascal
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It was only a matter of time before we were labelled "haters". Happens on all threads eventually when the fans can't cope with constructive criticism.
I think what I want to see from Chelsee is called "Grace". Kara had it in bucket loads and I could watch her dance all day. I think that is what I personally feel is missing from her otherwise good routines.
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Old 13-12-2011, 21:07
dancerdaisy
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I'd say it's arguable who was better out of Chelsee and Harry, depending on your POV. Too close to call.

Jason.. Loved his AT but that Samba was a hot mess. Did he slip on the stairs at the start? Maybe that affected to him.
Yes Jason did slip on the stairs at the start of his samba I Thaught he was going to take a tumble
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Old 13-12-2011, 21:18
penelopesimpson
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It was only a matter of time before we were labelled "haters". Happens on all threads eventually when the fans can't cope with constructive criticism.
I think what I want to see from Chelsee is called "Grace". Kara had it in bucket loads and I could watch her dance all day. I think that is what I personally feel is missing from her otherwise good routines.
that's it - GRACE - that is what's missing. Holly had it, Natasha Kaplinsky, Cherie Lunghi, Rachel, Colin Jackson, Matt di Angelo, etc. Chelsee so doesn't have it. I appreciate her role is cheeky little thing, but that's just not what it's about for me.
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Old 14-12-2011, 10:20
Cranberryapple
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Jealous? Of Chelseeeeeee?
According to some we are
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Old 14-12-2011, 10:21
Cranberryapple
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Wind up Merchant
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