Is there some reason why the people who disagree have to be disparaged?

You are talking about relatively minor improvements, not the stuff of which a journey's made. Harry's been on a "journey" that improved his ballroom posture/top-line. Gee, that's exciting. Can I get the film rights?

Chelsee's Quickstep was ages ago. It was in October! If comparing it to week 1 is supposed to show a journey, it's one that was quickly finished. As for the "AMAZING AS", "forgettable" is what I'd say. I cannot remember a single thing about it. Her October Quickstep is still one of her best dances, and even though I found it annoying at the time, it's the only one of her dances I'd chose to watch again for enjoyment.

Jason improved "somewhat". Well, fine. That's not a journey. He even seemed to get worse for a while.

Yes, she did

However, like I said, Harry's aggregate position is the highest at 2.36 to Chelsee's 2.45 and Jason's 2.81.

Scorewise (excluding the swinamajiggywotsit), Harry averages 34.5, Chelsee 34.0 and Jason 34.0 - so really all pretty much of a muchness with Harry slightly edging it as overall top.

Wow, his top half is so bulky and heavy in the foxtrot and his rise and fall is really jerky. And his hands...

And there's a noticeable improvement in his confidence and leading ability. I mean that quickstep is HOT! I really they do it in the final. The Blackpool floor is simply amazing to do a quickstep on. And they're clearly short of space for the QS in BBC studio. (are they going to Winter Gardens or Blackpool tower?)

The improvement is even noticeable by Waltz week, during the few bars he actually danced waltz. Although the rise and fall is still a bit jerky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whw8gwDCAjI

But I can't believe his upper body movement and posture improved so much in 2 weeks. It takes most people months if not years to get from Harry's foxtrot week to his S Waltz and then QS weeks.

I think i people can't notice the difference will either be non-dancers (or non-dance appreciators.... really don't have a better way to put it!) or biased against Harry.

It's usually by an over-keen fan who can't bear their loved one to be criticised in any way. There's a simple answer for those fans; don't look or put up & shut up.

Chelsee and Jason have improved loads as well. It's odd we don't normally notice these improvements because we watch them week by week. The improvement is really incredible!

I'm slightly jealous of them now, to be able to get so much private time with a professional dancer and improve their dancing during such a short time Every year I watch SCD I wonder how much I'd be able to improve if I could get 20+ hrs of practice time with one of my teachers every week!

Ridiculous isn't it. Some folk should realise this is a discussion forum for giving one's opinion.


Why is it hate?
Because some others on here don't actually like Chelsee!! It is allowed you know.


Good lord, another one. So we are haters and are jealous because we don't like Chelsee. Goodness me, this forum gets worse

Does anybody know the relevance of this? And why the repetition of the word 'role'? Tautology anyone?

Chelsee

Relatively minor differences remain relatively minor no matter how those who don't think they make a "journey" are disparaged.

Saying I don't support Chelsee is not 'hate', it's called having an opinion. Yes, some people are being ridiculously rude about her, and that's not on, but don't tar all of us who aren't fans with the same brush. And it works both ways - if your opinion is to be respected, you have to respect that others may think differently!


I have never been 'wowed' by any of Chelsee's dances, including the jive that gets raved about so much - I sometimes wonder was I the only one who saw her spending so much time in a tower at the start of that dance... I know my own favourite has had some dodgy dances too, but I just can't seem to warm to Chelsee, and to be honest I think what I find most disappointing is that for an actress she's really not good at conveying the emotion of a dance, which really should be effortless for her.



I agree entirely.

I think context is needed with Sanah's post as it shortly follows a particularly nasty comment about Chelsee. I won't quote it, but it's still there and very likely posted by a WUM since it's their first and only post. If it's a spade, you call it a spade. As you say, people being ridiculously rude is not on. I agree with the sentiment of your comment, but I don't think it applies here. I respect opinions that differ from mine (such as yours), I don't respect trolls who are spewing and venting (like the post I think Sanah is responding to).

I've just watched it again and I agree with you. There seemed to be a slight lack of sharpness and aggression in the attitude.. a touch too soft really. Nonetheless, I couldnÄt do it so who am I to say!
I also re-watched Harry's VW - God what a dream...

Saying that someone isn't a dancer or a dance-entusiast, or that they don't like Harry or Chelsee or Jason is not disparaging. The statement is neither negative nor positive.

People who dance, or are enthusiastic about it and watch a lot of dancing and follow it, would think the difference is large. Because a) they have an eye for these things and will be able to spot things that people who don't watch a lot of dancing outside SCD won't be able to; and b) they know how long it ordinarily takes someone to achieve these "minor differences" as you put it.

Good dancing is meant to look effortless, so it's normal for people who are not in the business and don't know what goes into the dance to think less of it than it actually is.

This is one reason why sometimes dances that dancers like are different from dances that non-dancers like. Because while the non-dancers will see the finished product, the dancer will see what is put into it and maybe think "ooh that step is really difficult I love how well s/he is doing it. It's beautiful", while the step itself is actually not very aesthetically pleasing.

Oops, me bad for getting the correct spelling of Chelsea wrong

The post said "biased" which is clearly disparaging; and in context, the rest was disparaging as well. It talked of people who "can't notice the difference", meaning there is a difference, but they are incapable of noticing it. That too is disparaging. It's also negative and dismissive.


Basically, you're saying those people are correct because they have knowledge and disabilities that those who disagree lack. That's positive about them, and negative about those who disagree.

But I didn't say the differences were minor. I said they were relatively minor. Which they are.

If I wanted to take the same sort of line, I'd say the dancers and dance-appreciators hugely overestimate the significance of such improvements; but I don't think that opinion actually breaks down along such lines.

All three of the finalists started SCD as good dancers by SCD standards; they ended as better dancers, but that's not much of a journey.

I'm fairly clueless when it comes to football. If I say something like I think there's no difference between Rooney and Ronaldo (I don't even know if I've picked the right players for this example!), and you tell me that there is a huge difference and the reason I don't see it is because I don't know much about football, is that disparaging/dismissive? I personally definitely won't feel like that towards this comment.


Well that is how it works, the opinion of the person who has knowledge of something about that thing is usually more likely to be correct than the opinion of someone who is not knowledgable about that thing. I don't understand why not having knowledge of dancing is a bad thing, it's just stating a fact. Dancing is just one field out of millions of fields of knowledge, and the reason I for instance am knowledgable in this field is because I've spent all my life studying it, which basically means I don't have a clue about much else. And incidentally that happens to have been pretty useless way of spending my life because with one single injury the my career was effectively over. So definitely don't possess any feeling of superiority over other people regarding the dancing thing.

Maybe the way I said it was patronising?

I guess that does create an imbalance, that at any point in an argument if I disagree I could just say "hey, I'm a dancer and I know better. That thing Jason was dancing on Saturday was not an AT, it was a jive. He should have received 0 marks, been disqualified and kicked out of the building because that's how real dance competitions are run!" But I'm sure there are enough dancers and dance-appreciators on this forum that someone would call me on my bluff!


Ok, I need to point out that the post I sent was not at all in response to yours. And then the response I wrote was to your respons which said differences are relatively minor, but not having read your previous post I didn't really notice the "relatively" much or realise what/who you were drawing up comparisons with.

I was saying that to people who keep going on about how Harry/Chelsee/Jason (usually when 1 or 2 of them are set against another) haven't improved much etc etc. And that was a general comment, not just regarding Harry's improvement.


It is a very fair assumption. And not just when it comes to improvement. Dancers and dance-appreciators see the dances differently than others. And that's not always a good thing. If I had never watched SCD and had only hung around with dancers and competitors of my level I probably would've looked at Chelsee's jive and the only thing I could see would be technical flaws. But now I'm starting to learn to appreciate the other aspects that the celebrities bring to a dance, and it really gives a wider prospect towards dancing.

That's right - actually there are some other comments in this thread that, for me, fall into the same category. But only by two other posters...

That's just how I feel - there is something missing. Okay, she irritates me but I had to admit that she did the business on Saturday, but still there is just a vacantness where there should be passion. I don't think it's anything to do with her character or anything she can help, she just has a blank expression most of the time and doesn't mesmerise in the way that I need a dancer in the finals to do

Jealous? Of Chelseeeeeee?

What is a WUM?

It was only a matter of time before we were labelled "haters". Happens on all threads eventually when the fans can't cope with constructive criticism.
I think what I want to see from Chelsee is called "Grace". Kara had it in bucket loads and I could watch her dance all day. I think that is what I personally feel is missing from her otherwise good routines.

Yes Jason did slip on the stairs at the start of his samba I Thaught he was going to take a tumble

that's it - GRACE - that is what's missing. Holly had it, Natasha Kaplinsky, Cherie Lunghi, Rachel, Colin Jackson, Matt di Angelo, etc. Chelsee so doesn't have it. I appreciate her role is cheeky little thing, but that's just not what it's about for me.

According to some we are

Wind up Merchant