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The first proper paso since Jill Halfpenny
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SCD-Observer
10-12-2011
... they deserve to come CLOSE to perfect 40.

First off, Chelsee. It was an amazing Paso. Definitely the BEST Paso I've seen a celeb done, bar none.

Two very risky decisions made by Pasha. Firstly, Paso's normally a man's dance, in that the attention is on the male dancer. But Pasha so cleverly choreographed it in such a way that my attention was always on Chelsee. Secondly, I believed Pasha deliberately choreographed her to hold on to that fan just to make you focus on her from the beginning of the dance to the end. The fan it like a pointer and subtly says "hey, look at me, I'm dancing here"...

The decision for her to hold on to that fan actually showed just how confident Pasha had of Chelsee! Despite holding on to the fan, she still managed finish those Spanish lines and everything you want to see in the Paso (passion, intensity etc.) beautifully and then some.

What made me think she doesn't deserve a perfect 40 was one bit where I wasn't sure if they were supposed to turn in sync or not in the middle of the dance (Pasha appeared to do an extra twirl as if to compensate it or to distract the audience away from the apparent mis-timing of Chelsee?). And towards the end, there was a little hesitation before Chelsee did that leg split on Pasha's lap. Not a perfect forty, but maybe thirty-eight or thirty-nine.

As for Jason, I just thought he was a little OTT in the beginning. But when the dance proper began he was on fire. Again there was some hesitation (not enough ganchos for Jason), but I think Kristina deserved some tens for doing that AMAZING choreography with some breath-taking lifts. Not perfect forty stuff, but thirty-seven to thirty-eight, yes.

edit: Strictly history has it that so far any one scoring perfect 40 before the finals never wins in the end. This makes me sad for Chelsee, as I hope she'll win. Harry is good, and I think seeing his buddy Doughie winning the Jungle show, I am more and more certain Mcfly fans will vote for Harry multiple times in the finals, and he'll win this.

Whatever the case, after the semi-finals, I really hope to see Chelsee, Harry and Jason in the final.
Jocko Homo
10-12-2011
The flamenco, the shaping, everything! Fantastic choreography by Pasha and danced brilliantly by Chelsee. Possibly an unpopular opinion but I thought it was well worth 4 tens.
Ignazio
10-12-2011
Not at all unpopular by my standards.

In both dances Chelsee brought everything to the table tonight.
Azla Axe
10-12-2011
Not unpopular at all.

A well deserved 40, not for being technically perfect (she wasn't), but for being sharp, and having lots of attack, attitude, and good posture. She didn't even need skirt wafting to look good!

I loved it. Well done Chelsee!
*Laura*
10-12-2011
Not unpopular with me either. I absolutely loved it. Her flamenco hands at the beginning and then her little flamenco solo were fantastic. Yes, there were flaws but, the whole routine was so hypnotic that I didn't spot them first time around.
ysbryd y ddawns
11-12-2011
IMHO - having given a 39 for the first dance, the judges left themselves with very little leeway, well a single mark to be precise.

And I don't mean any disrespect to Harry - he did dance very well.
Jocko Homo
11-12-2011
Originally Posted by *Laura*:
“Not unpopular with me either. I absolutely loved it. Her flamenco hands at the beginning and then her little flamenco solo were fantastic. Yes, there were flaws but, the whole routine was so hypnotic that I didn't spot them first time around.”

Yeah absoloutely, obviously it wasn't flawless but then there's never been a flawless dance on strictly yet, even Kara's rumba had a little wobble moment!

For me I was so impressed because there's been such a dearth of good paso's on strictly (as entertaining as Austin's was even that didn't cut it for me) it so often seems to descend into macho posturing for the guys and skirt wafting for the girls so to see Chelsee nail it was very exciting. Compared to Harry who was probably equally good but because there's been some amazing VW over the years (Alesha's, Kara's, Ali's, Scott's) it didn't impress me quite as much, though I thought he very much deserved to be top of the leader board.
flaviawow
11-12-2011
Originally Posted by Jocko Homo:
“The flamenco, the shaping, everything! Fantastic choreography by Pasha and danced brilliantly by Chelsee. Possibly an unpopular opinion but I thought it was well worth 4 tens.”

Not unpopular with me either,thoroughly deserved four 10's & in my opinion even more than Jason.This young lady is absolutely incredible.
As I'm an Arsenal it galls me to say that I will be rooting for Chelsee in the final.
SCD-Observer
11-12-2011
Originally Posted by ysbryd y ddawns:
“IMHO - having given a 39 for the first dance, the judges left themselves with very little leeway, well a single mark to be precise.

And I don't mean any disrespect to Harry - he did dance very well.”

I agree to a certain extent. But Harry did really well in his Charleston. If I were to mark him, it'll be around 37 to 38 anyway. His VW was really good too, a score of 37 or 38 as well.

Without the mistake in the AS, I think Chelsee would have equalled or better Harry on Saturday night...
marinamau
11-12-2011
I liked it but I did not love it, but then again I am very critical of the ballroom pasos in general. This is my opinion as a Spanish, lover of flamenco and supporter of Chealsee that I am ( I also support Harry).

There were plenty of flaws and wobbly bits and I saw her dancing for the first time thinking the dance rather than dancing the dance, which is what I love about her and she has done until now.

Part of the problem is that I rarely like the male dancer in a ballroom paso (with the exception of Artem) as I always think they look too much of dancers rather than just pure masculinity. Pasha is almost there, but I felt that he fell short and yet again I saw a dancer rather than a man dancing (I know, it is hard to explain but makes sense in my world). There needs to be an explicit frustration on the male dancer, an unfulfilled desire an intensity. Artem is the only does that on the Paso.

Also I didn't think it had fluidity in the dance, it had two many sections that didn't flow so well.

Holly's flamenco bits were also miles better than Chealsee.To be honest i prefered Holly's Paso, even though I think Chealsee would have dance that choreo better had she had Artem.
bingoes
11-12-2011
Harry should have got a 40 for the VW it was stunning
Tiggywink
11-12-2011
Originally Posted by Azla Axe:
“Not unpopular at all.

A well deserved 40, not for being technically perfect (she wasn't), but for being sharp, and having lots of attack, attitude, and good posture. She didn't even need skirt wafting to look good!

I loved it. Well done Chelsee!”

Nor did they rely on the cape wafting either. An excellent routine.
Tipi
11-12-2011
Can't say I agree with the OP
I thought it was good but I didn't think it warranted 4 10s and I certainly think there have been other great Pasos since Jilly Halpennys, Holly and Artems last week being one of them and it was better than Chelsee and Pashas imo
marinamau
11-12-2011
Originally Posted by Tiggywink:
“Nor did they rely on the cape wafting either. An excellent routine.”

I must say I mostly hate the use of cape, unless it makes sense or it is used as it should, doing Veronicas o Revoleras.
Hello.
11-12-2011
I actually decided I was glad Harry didn't get the perfect score, because he didn't need it to top the leaderboard and he can aim to get it next week. A perfect 40 in the final could win it for him!

But again it must be said that McFly's fans can't win him the show alone. Dougie rarely topped the vote on I'm A Celeb and he benefitted from the 2 person final. He seemed to gain the majority of Fatima's voters when she left in 3rd place. Before she left he was second to Mark, and a day earlier he was in the bottom 2.
Sherlock_Holmes
11-12-2011
It was a great paso, also one of the few dances that actually gets better the more you watch it.

As with some other people, the paso is not my favourite dance at all (though when well danced, like Darren and Lilia for instance, it can become a great dance). My two favourite contestants ever (Alesha and Rachel) both did very mediocre paso´s compared with Chelsee´s paso.

It was also better then Holly´s (imho), as Chelsee´s lines were a lot sharper and she didn´t spend half the routine on the ground (an Artem gimmick, remember the lampposts and even the AT tonight). Offcourse, I can understand that people might disagree, but surely it would on the subject of passion (rather then technique, I hope).
Damahepa
11-12-2011
Originally Posted by Hello.:
“I actually decided I was glad Harry didn't get the perfect score, because he didn't need it to top the leaderboard and he can aim to get it next week. A perfect 40 in the final could win it for him!

But again it must be said that McFly's fans can't win him the show alone. Dougie rarely topped the vote on I'm A Celeb and he benefitted from the 2 person final. He seemed to gain the majority of Fatima's voters when she left in 3rd place. Before she left he was second to Mark, and a day earlier he was in the bottom 2.”

Didn't help Pam- although Kara was always going to win last year she was just brilliant no matter what Pam or Matt did...

I think Chelsee should win - her dances are just better, sharper, more aesthetically pleasing than Harry's (although Harry is himself more aesthetically pleasing than most other human beings alive)

I hope McFly voters don't just swing it for Harry because I'd like the best dancer to win- and although Harry's good- Jason and Chelsee have impressed me more as the series has gone on- no slant on Harry because tonight I thought he was brilliant, but I hope the best dancer gets it, not the most popular (I feared the same last year with Matt and Kara... I can only hope lightning strikes twice and Harry comes a galant second) No doubt he's a worthy finalist and more... but I still have reservations, and in a semi final that seems a bit too late for total redemption.

Also- to the OP. I watched both dances back, I thought Chelsee was out of time when I saw live, but second time It's clear she wasn't- but there was a microscopic hesitation before her final pose- she raised her arms a moment too early as Pasha did an extra turn- but I couldn't really mark her down for that!
As for Jason- maybe it's just a matter of taste for what is "too much" for me, it felt ok
Lennie
11-12-2011
I was impressed with Chelsee/Pasha (what i like about Pasha is he lets her shine, he gives her a piece to do on her own each week and then both come together), she has really shined in her dances i think esp for a woman, and doing a Paso is i think harder for a woman then a man, coz of the moves and kicks and slicks

She deserved that 40
pasodabble
11-12-2011
Originally Posted by SCD-Observer:
“What made me think she doesn't deserve a perfect 40 was one bit where I wasn't sure if they were supposed to turn in sync or not in the middle of the dance (Pasha appeared to do an extra twirl as if to compensate it or to distract the audience away from the apparent mis-timing of Chelsee?). And towards the end, there was a little hesitation before Chelsee did that leg split on Pasha's lap. Not a perfect forty, but maybe thirty-eight or thirty-nine.”

BIB - I've watched it 4 times and each time I come to a different conclusion. I'd like to think that they were not meant to turn in sync; the judges probably assumed it was part of the choreography. Or Pasha may have been the one who went wrong (as Matthew Cutler did with Alesha)

The 2nd hesitation was clear but she had her back to the judges so they must have missed it.

However as I said on another thread, a dance can either be a 9 or a 10 (or lower) as all 4 judges mark independently. Thus if it wasn't a 40, the next mark is 36 (nines) and I think it was worth more than nines.

Quote:
“edit: Strictly history has it that so far any one scoring perfect 40 before the finals never wins in the end. This makes me sad for Chelsee, as I hope she'll win.”

In past series the judges have used perfect scores to prop up relatively unpopular contestants. I think Harry will win, but not becsuse of Chelsee and Jason's 40.
RichmondBlue
11-12-2011
In the context of the series, I think the "perfect" marks were justified..and Harry's VW was not far behind. Thinking about it later, I'm not so sure about the actual content of Jason's AT, but there was a "shock value" in Jason's performance that might have swayed the judges..he certainly surprised me ! As Craig said, he couldn't have picked a better time to come up with his performance of the series.
blackberry000
11-12-2011
Totally agree with the title.

Didn't think that many people remembered Jill's Paso!
tangoqueen
11-12-2011
Originally Posted by marinamau:
“I liked it but I did not love it, but then again I am very critical of the ballroom pasos in general. This is my opinion as a Spanish, lover of flamenco and supporter of Chealsee that I am ( I also support Harry).

There were plenty of flaws and wobbly bits and I saw her dancing for the first time thinking the dance rather than dancing the dance, which is what I love about her and she has done until now.

Part of the problem is that I rarely like the male dancer in a ballroom paso (with the exception of Artem) as I always think they look too much of dancers rather than just pure masculinity. Pasha is almost there, but I felt that he fell short and yet again I saw a dancer rather than a man dancing (I know, it is hard to explain but makes sense in my world). There needs to be an explicit frustration on the male dancer, an unfulfilled desire an intensity. Artem is the only does that on the Paso.

Also I didn't think it had fluidity in the dance, it had two many sections that didn't flow so well.

Holly's flamenco bits were also miles better than Chealsee.To be honest i prefered Holly's Paso, even though I think Chealsee would have dance that choreo better had she had Artem.”

Hello Marina - I really do agree with you here.

I absolutely love Chelsee & Pasha and their dancing - and they've been amazing over the series.

BUT I must be one of the few who really did not like this paso!

For much of the same reasons as you state above.

What you have said makes perfect sense to me!

I too particularly felt it was poor in transition - I just didn't get the feeling from it at all.

Shame because I've pretty much liked the majority of their other dances.
blackberry000
11-12-2011
Originally Posted by marinamau:
“I liked it but I did not love it, but then again I am very critical of the ballroom pasos in general. This is my opinion as a Spanish, lover of flamenco and supporter of Chealsee that I am ( I also support Harry).

There were plenty of flaws and wobbly bits and I saw her dancing for the first time thinking the dance rather than dancing the dance, which is what I love about her and she has done until now.

Part of the problem is that I rarely like the male dancer in a ballroom paso (with the exception of Artem) as I always think they look too much of dancers rather than just pure masculinity. Pasha is almost there, but I felt that he fell short and yet again I saw a dancer rather than a man dancing (I know, it is hard to explain but makes sense in my world). There needs to be an explicit frustration on the male dancer, an unfulfilled desire an intensity. Artem is the only does that on the Paso.

Also I didn't think it had fluidity in the dance, it had two many sections that didn't flow so well.

Holly's flamenco bits were also miles better than Chealsee.To be honest i prefered Holly's Paso, even though I think Chealsee would have dance that choreo better had she had Artem.”

You do know that Paso doble is actually a french dance? It is based on Spanish bullfighting, but the dance itself was invented in the French theatre. Just one of those tid bits that SCD ignores to mention!

I do agree with your opinion about Chelsee's Paso. Chelsee has a ballet background (this is not from an official source, I just tell from the way she moves) which is what gives her the musicality, fluidity, and great lines and movement. But ballet dancers all have some "bad habits" that get in their way of learning ballroom and latin, one is that they are not grounded enough. Which is what makes Chelsee a bit "skippy".

I think Pasha was very clever with the music choice, because Chelsee's big problem is being too skippy, going a bit fast etc. The music had clear cut sections, and so forced Chelsee to stop before moving on to the next section of the dance. But that is I guess what you didn't like about the music.

I think the reason you preferred Holly's dance to Chelsee's is that Holly is a feel dancer, and Chelsee a think dancer (or a heart dancer and a head dancer). And I don't think Chelsee could've danced Holly's Paso any better. She doesn't have the feistiness required for this dance.
marinamau
11-12-2011
Originally Posted by blackberry000:
“You do know that Paso doble is actually a french dance? It is based on Spanish bullfighting, but the dance itself was invented in the French theatre. Just one of those tid bits that SCD ignores to mention!

I do agree with your opinion about Chelsee's Paso. Chelsee has a ballet background (this is not from an official source, I just tell from the way she moves) which is what gives her the musicality, fluidity, and great lines and movement. But ballet dancers all have some "bad habits" that get in their way of learning ballroom and latin, one is that they are not grounded enough. Which is what makes Chelsee a bit "skippy".

I think Pasha was very clever with the music choice, because Chelsee's big problem is being too skippy, going a bit fast etc. The music had clear cut sections, and so forced Chelsee to stop before moving on to the next section of the dance. But that is I guess what you didn't like about the music.

I think the reason you preferred Holly's dance to Chelsee's is that Holly is a feel dancer, and Chelsee a think dancer (or a heart dancer and a head dancer). And I don't think Chelsee could've danced Holly's Paso any better. She doesn't have the feistiness required for this dance.”

Yes I do know that the Ballroom version is French, that is why I say that I am very critical of ballroom Pasos as to me regular paso dobles is what is danced in Spain ( abit like Tango and AT). I understand that I am hard to pleased when it comes to Pasos, but I certainly need to see the Spanish flavour in a Paso, specially when it is a Paso with flamenco as this was clearly.

The music was fine, it is one of the better songs for Pasos, I just didnt think that she danced it that great. The transitions in Paso with flamenco have to either be smooth or completely sharp, and hers were neither.

For all the stick that aliona ( and in a smaller measure Artem) gets, Pasha has been king of the gimmicks and props. It is hard to think of a dance without either of them.

I actually think that Chealsee is rather feisty (quistep?), her latin has shown a lot of feistiness. What she hasn't been able to portray is intensity and passion in the dance.

Holly's paso I loved in spite of Holly, I never get any real feeling rather than cold and can't see her as being a feel dance. If anyone is a feel dance I would have said it was Chealsee, but you may be right.

I still love Chealsee, but i just dont think she is a great as say Kara, nor that her paso was worthy of a 40, as it was obviously flawed. Jason's I thought it was more worthy of 40 though as on first watch I could not see anything wrong with it, even though that I don't really enjoy Jason as a dancer at all nor I thought it was the dance of the series.
La Rhumba
11-12-2011
Originally Posted by blackberry000:
“Totally agree with the title.

Didn't think that many people remembered Jill's Paso!”

I remember it vividly, it was an absolute classic!!

For that year's semi-final all 3 Pasos by Jill & Darren, Denise & Ian, and Aled & Lilia were tremendous, proper Ballroom Pasos and very entertaining to watch!
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