No probs, I agree that people should be judged on their merits but I admit that sometimes we (well maybe me) can be influenced the way someone speaks! Wrong I agree but hard to ignore it! I promise I'll cheer if either Chelsee or Harry win! Not so sure about Jason though!
I think there's now a runaway leader...
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I think it will depend on who dances well on the night, plenty of people don't vote until finals night and they will probably go for the best dancer on the night. I think it's definitely between Harry and Chelsee and it might come down to the showdance .. Aliona has a bad track record ... I think Aliona is Chelsee's greatest ally 
though I would say that this year she seems to have kept it tighter.
though I would say that this year she seems to have kept it tighter.
Originally Posted by daziechain:
“I think it will depend on who dances well on the night, plenty of people don't vote until finals night and they will probably go for the best dancer on the night. I think it's definitely between Harry and Chelsee and it might come down to the showdance .. Aliona has a bad track record ... I think Aliona is Chelsee's greatest ally though I would say that this year she seems to have kept it tighter.”
“I think it will depend on who dances well on the night, plenty of people don't vote until finals night and they will probably go for the best dancer on the night. I think it's definitely between Harry and Chelsee and it might come down to the showdance .. Aliona has a bad track record ... I think Aliona is Chelsee's greatest ally
though I would say that this year she seems to have kept it tighter.”
Yes Aliona has turned it down. Just hope it means she hasn't bottled it all up to go OTT on the showdance
Originally Posted by Psychosis:
“I don't agree with that, not anymore. I highly dislike her as a person - I think she's annoying, possibly completely stupid (as I speak she's questioning what 'vertically challenged' means), and behaves with irritating vapidity. But I can't deny that she's a stunning dancer and I forget that I dislike her when she gets on to the floor. I'll be voting for her.
Harry is so devastatingly inoffensive that I can't be bothered to pick up the phone.”
“I don't agree with that, not anymore. I highly dislike her as a person - I think she's annoying, possibly completely stupid (as I speak she's questioning what 'vertically challenged' means), and behaves with irritating vapidity. But I can't deny that she's a stunning dancer and I forget that I dislike her when she gets on to the floor. I'll be voting for her.
Harry is so devastatingly inoffensive that I can't be bothered to pick up the phone.”
Your reasons for high dislike appear to be based on nothing more than what you perceive to be a lack of intellect. I actually consider that judging a person almost solely on the strength of their vocabulary to be rather shallow.
I sailed through my schooling, university education and professional exams and have enjoyed similar success in my career - but do I think I could attain a similar level of ability in dance as that achieved by Chelsee? I seriously doubt it.
Many who are academically challenged show an outstanding aptitude for the arts, music etc. Why should the academically able feel superior to those gifted in other disciplines.
Originally Posted by Xassy:
“I would love Chelsee to win but I think Harry will. They are both fabulous dancers and both deserve to be in the final. I've warmed so much to Harry that I wouldn't be upset if he won at all. Plus, I've started to fancy him a bit.
”
“I would love Chelsee to win but I think Harry will. They are both fabulous dancers and both deserve to be in the final. I've warmed so much to Harry that I wouldn't be upset if he won at all. Plus, I've started to fancy him a bit.
”
Agree, I wouldn't mind either of them winning but think it will be Harry. Love Chelsee.
I think this is much more open than many finals and although I think Harry and Chelsee will be the final 2 it could go either way. Last year I think the relationship made the difference for Kara and Artem but the Pasha/Chelsee romance hasn't developed despite the Tess/Zoe comments so I think it is too close to call.
Originally Posted by TeamChasha2Win:
“Can't deny I want Chelsee to win, and believe that her fans will come out in droves to make sure it happens.
Although I have to admit, that if you go on statistics, male contestants are always more likely to win, particularly if they are minimally aggravating, which Harry pretty much is.
I really don't get some people's comments about her accent: I understand it, along with quite a few other British, as well as other country accents, and I've lived in London all my life. Admittedly, I am good with languages. Nevertheless, if you can't understand what someone says, you listen carefully, you don't just give up on them because you don't like/can't understand their accent.
Concerning "vertically challenged", I'm short too, but I've never heard of vertically challenged either, no one knows everything in the world, I'd be more willing to understand criticisms of Chelsee's intelligence, if she asked something like "where's America?"
Twitter is not a dictionary, or an exam, it doesn't matter if you spell everything correctly, and even so, have some of you not read the statistics? There are large numbers of children and adults in this country, that have left school not being able to read, spell, do mathematics, or not being diagnosed with a learning difficulty until a significant degree of time has passed.
No individual is the same, and people need to stop judging others like they are.”
“Can't deny I want Chelsee to win, and believe that her fans will come out in droves to make sure it happens.
Although I have to admit, that if you go on statistics, male contestants are always more likely to win, particularly if they are minimally aggravating, which Harry pretty much is.
I really don't get some people's comments about her accent: I understand it, along with quite a few other British, as well as other country accents, and I've lived in London all my life. Admittedly, I am good with languages. Nevertheless, if you can't understand what someone says, you listen carefully, you don't just give up on them because you don't like/can't understand their accent.
Concerning "vertically challenged", I'm short too, but I've never heard of vertically challenged either, no one knows everything in the world, I'd be more willing to understand criticisms of Chelsee's intelligence, if she asked something like "where's America?"
Twitter is not a dictionary, or an exam, it doesn't matter if you spell everything correctly, and even so, have some of you not read the statistics? There are large numbers of children and adults in this country, that have left school not being able to read, spell, do mathematics, or not being diagnosed with a learning difficulty until a significant degree of time has passed.
No individual is the same, and people need to stop judging others like they are.”
Apart from not being something that should matter regional ,accents if anything may work the other way with female contenders. Female winners seem to have to pass through a number of hoops and being familiar in a "like us" sense may often be one of them. People with little or no accent, a home counties one or a standard English one often have trouble getting votes - look at Rachel, Emma, Ali....Regional accents may depend on what they are - as some seem to attract votes and some not from different audiences, and some people do well with a regional vote while other regions give no help.
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“...and I think it's Chelsee who is pulling in the votes; she has had a journey; ...”
“...and I think it's Chelsee who is pulling in the votes; she has had a journey; ...”
What journey has Chelsee had?
And what shows she's "pulling in the votes"?
Has she ever been low enough on the judges' leaderboard for her to need lots of votes?
Originally Posted by Psychosis:
“I don't agree with that, not anymore. I highly dislike her as a person - I think she's annoying, possibly completely stupid (as I speak she's questioning what 'vertically challenged' means), and behaves with irritating vapidity. But I can't deny that she's a stunning dancer and I forget that I dislike her when she gets on to the floor. I'll be voting for her.
Harry is so devastatingly inoffensive that I can't be bothered to pick up the phone.”
“I don't agree with that, not anymore. I highly dislike her as a person - I think she's annoying, possibly completely stupid (as I speak she's questioning what 'vertically challenged' means), and behaves with irritating vapidity. But I can't deny that she's a stunning dancer and I forget that I dislike her when she gets on to the floor. I'll be voting for her.
Harry is so devastatingly inoffensive that I can't be bothered to pick up the phone.”
I don't have an opinion on her as a person, but I agree about he she seems on SCD ... except that I don't find her a stunning dancer. She's not a bad dancer, but I never think "Wow! That was great. I want to watch it again."
Originally Posted by Ignazio:
“Your reasons for high dislike appear to be based on nothing more than what you perceive to be a lack of intellect. I actually consider that judging a person almost solely on the strength of their vocabulary to be rather shallow.”
“Your reasons for high dislike appear to be based on nothing more than what you perceive to be a lack of intellect. I actually consider that judging a person almost solely on the strength of their vocabulary to be rather shallow.”
Since when is intelligence shallow? We're often told that judging someone by their looks is shallow. If considering their intelligence is supposed to be shallow too, I wonder what isn't.
What wouldn't be a shallow way to judge someone, in your view?
Quote:
“I sailed through my schooling, university education and professional exams and have enjoyed similar success in my career - but do I think I could attain a similar level of ability in dance as that achieved by Chelsee? I seriously doubt it.
Many who are academically challenged show an outstanding aptitude for the arts, music etc. Why should the academically able feel superior to those gifted in other disciplines.”
“I sailed through my schooling, university education and professional exams and have enjoyed similar success in my career - but do I think I could attain a similar level of ability in dance as that achieved by Chelsee? I seriously doubt it.
Many who are academically challenged show an outstanding aptitude for the arts, music etc. Why should the academically able feel superior to those gifted in other disciplines.”
The post didn't say the academically able should feel superior.
And how did intelligence become something "academic" half way through your post?
Originally Posted by lynxmale:
“Harry has the advantage of ever-so pert and shiny legs.
Not on him, stoopid, on Aliona”
“Harry has the advantage of ever-so pert and shiny legs.
Not on him, stoopid, on Aliona”
I was going to say, his legs are more chicken leg than pert and shiny.
as for all this back biting, chill your knickers people
there is a lot of contradicting going on, for instance saying people shouldn't discriminate against one contestant because of whatever then doing exactly that to another dancer
Sit back, relax and vote for your favourite/the best dancer where you see fit
I'm voting for Harry because I didn't know he had it in him and i'm so proud of what he does every week, he needs to let go and enjoy it and smile more though and try and win those floating ummers and ahhers over
Despite being in the "like Harry and Chelsee and feeling conflicted about the winner" camp, I'm going to put the cat among the pigeons here and say that, after Kristina danced like her life depended on it on Saturday night (and possibly got her and Jason into the final on that basis - he was good, but love it or loathe it she was on fire!), she could win it for them provided he can also perform to his best in terms of presentation ,and be technically error free.
I've been a Jason girl since the start and cpntinue to be ... however, I really like Chelsee and think that she would be a desreved winner. I started off not liking her, thought she was a bit brash and loud , but, now I have got to "know" her, I just think she seems really genuine and lively. She's good to watch, gives it all a go, and is engaging. If my Jason doesn't win, I'm happy for Chelsee to life the trophy.
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“...and I think it's Chelsee who is pulling in the votes; she has had a journey; the coupling is very popular; there are questions over a romance; she consistently puts in good performances and she's a shock for many people. But most importantly she has this forum's support - this forum is a much better guide to the winner on Strictly than any other reality show, even if the eliminations are a bit off at times. The likes of Tom, Chris and Kara had the strongest support on here and they won...and I expect Chelsee to follow this tradition.
But even if it's one of the others, I'm intrigued to whether another couple will be able to gain momentum to overtake the leader or whether it's a foregone conclusion.”
“...and I think it's Chelsee who is pulling in the votes; she has had a journey; the coupling is very popular; there are questions over a romance; she consistently puts in good performances and she's a shock for many people. But most importantly she has this forum's support - this forum is a much better guide to the winner on Strictly than any other reality show, even if the eliminations are a bit off at times. The likes of Tom, Chris and Kara had the strongest support on here and they won...and I expect Chelsee to follow this tradition.
But even if it's one of the others, I'm intrigued to whether another couple will be able to gain momentum to overtake the leader or whether it's a foregone conclusion.”
considering she has never been anywhere lower than second on the leader board, (please correct me if I am wrong) I dont think we can really know if she is "pulling in the votes". I would edge my bets and say Harry might possibly be ahead of her in the voting, just based on the evidence of him being 4th on the leader board and still making it through to the semi finals without being in the bottom 2.
Yes, Chelsee has had the "journey" but they have ALL had their own journey
As for the "romance" aspect, lol - that makes me laugh, I thnk Pasha sees her a younger (albeit sometimes annoying) sister
Originally Posted by olivej:
“considering she has never been anywhere lower than second on the leader board, (please correct me if I am wrong) I dont think we can really know if she is "pulling in the votes". I would edge my bets and say Harry might possibly be ahead of her in the voting, just based on the evidence of him being 4th on the leader board and still making it through to the semi finals without being in the bottom 2.
Yes, Chelsee has had the "journey" but they have ALL had their own journey
As for the "romance" aspect, lol - that makes me laugh, I thnk Pasha sees her a younger (albeit sometimes annoying) sister”
“considering she has never been anywhere lower than second on the leader board, (please correct me if I am wrong) I dont think we can really know if she is "pulling in the votes". I would edge my bets and say Harry might possibly be ahead of her in the voting, just based on the evidence of him being 4th on the leader board and still making it through to the semi finals without being in the bottom 2.
Yes, Chelsee has had the "journey" but they have ALL had their own journey
As for the "romance" aspect, lol - that makes me laugh, I thnk Pasha sees her a younger (albeit sometimes annoying) sister”
Chelsee and Harry are coming higher than penultimate with the public. That is all we know nothing else.
The bookies odds are not calculated on Mr William Hill watching on a Saturday night and going 'ooh that was a good waltz, stick him down for 2-1' or 'hmm, sambas are traditionally a difficult dance to get through, send him out to 50-1'
It's based on where the money is going - Harry is favourite with the bookies meaning a lot of money has gone on him. If the bookies kept his odds out at 2-1 they would stand to lose a lot of the money that has been placed on him. They are trying to discourage people from backing him now. When the odds are longer, that means hardly anyone is backing them. The bookies never get it 'wrong' even when the favourite doesn't win - it's all calculated so that they turn a profit.
I wouldn't look too closely at the bookies odds unless you actually want to make a bet, in any case I think Harry will win with Chelsee close second.
It's based on where the money is going - Harry is favourite with the bookies meaning a lot of money has gone on him. If the bookies kept his odds out at 2-1 they would stand to lose a lot of the money that has been placed on him. They are trying to discourage people from backing him now. When the odds are longer, that means hardly anyone is backing them. The bookies never get it 'wrong' even when the favourite doesn't win - it's all calculated so that they turn a profit.
I wouldn't look too closely at the bookies odds unless you actually want to make a bet, in any case I think Harry will win with Chelsee close second.
I do wonder how representative this forum is. Or do people genuinely vote for the best dances on the night? My impression is that most people have firm favourites that they will vote for even if they completely mess up the dance. Also from this forum you really would have thought that Jason would not have reached the final. It will be interesting to see if Harry wins, as predicted, as this forum has Chelsee more popular.
Originally Posted by workshylady:
“The bookies odds are not calculated on Mr William Hill watching on a Saturday night and going 'ooh that was a good waltz, stick him down for 2-1' or 'hmm, sambas are traditionally a difficult dance to get through, send him out to 50-1'
It's based on where the money is going - Harry is favourite with the bookies meaning a lot of money has gone on him. If the bookies kept his odds out at 2-1 they would stand to lose a lot of the money that has been placed on him. They are trying to discourage people from backing him now. When the odds are longer, that means hardly anyone is backing them. The bookies never get it 'wrong' even when the favourite doesn't win - it's all calculated so that they turn a profit.
I wouldn't look too closely at the bookies odds unless you actually want to make a bet, in any case I think Harry will win with Chelsee close second.”
“The bookies odds are not calculated on Mr William Hill watching on a Saturday night and going 'ooh that was a good waltz, stick him down for 2-1' or 'hmm, sambas are traditionally a difficult dance to get through, send him out to 50-1'
It's based on where the money is going - Harry is favourite with the bookies meaning a lot of money has gone on him. If the bookies kept his odds out at 2-1 they would stand to lose a lot of the money that has been placed on him. They are trying to discourage people from backing him now. When the odds are longer, that means hardly anyone is backing them. The bookies never get it 'wrong' even when the favourite doesn't win - it's all calculated so that they turn a profit.
I wouldn't look too closely at the bookies odds unless you actually want to make a bet, in any case I think Harry will win with Chelsee close second.”
Harry's odds & the amount of money being placed on him are of no consequence unless they are based on insider knowledge of how the vote is going. Failing that, the bookies and those backing Harry are as much in the dark as we are - just educated guesswork.
Originally Posted by Camis:
“I think you may be missing a vital ingredient - the McFly voters!”
“I think you may be missing a vital ingredient - the McFly voters!”
Yes, I kind of think that too. Although the overall SCD voting demographic can still work in chelsee's favour too. So on the day maybe the popband fanbase Vs the rest of the other types of people that vote will balance itself out (in terms of who it favours). Lets say, if Chelsee were to dance better than Harry in the final then, sure, Mcfly fans may still vote for Harry by default and not her because of their loyalty to him, but, you never know, they could end up torn if their votes are based on couples performances and not just the popular pre-SCD vote.
I think Chelsee and Harry dance wise are very close and Chelsee has improved since the early weeks when she was told she was abit frantic and uncontrolled. Harry has had a more straight-ine journey as in, started well, and hasn't ever dipped to any noticeble extent (as I think most of his critcism this series has been directed at Aliona's choreography and less so about his technique than it has been for Chelsee). So come the final they've both reached a good standard from whatever level they indivudally started and therefore it could be a close call between them for the trophy. I can't really see Jason winning as he started really well and then dipped up and down abit more than the other two. Maybe he can pull it out of the bag but I can't see it (even with his already formed fanbase from early on in his career). While Chelsee may be at a disadvatage with no real already established fanbase like the two boys have, dance wise, she could still at least challenge for the glitterball and may even win it if she performs well. Will just have to wait on the night.
Originally Posted by olivej:
“
As for the "romance" aspect, lol - that makes me laugh, I thnk Pasha sees her a younger (albeit sometimes annoying) sister”
“
As for the "romance" aspect, lol - that makes me laugh, I thnk Pasha sees her a younger (albeit sometimes annoying) sister”
God yeah...it makes me shudder when they try and force this "romance" angle. It's blatantly obvious that there is no romance, both Chelsee and Pasha look flippin' uncomfortable whenever Tess and Zoe witter on about it. And also, isn't it a bit disrespectful to Pasha's girlfriend? (Although Tess is pretty disrespectful generally...)
Anyhow...I'd rather Jason won because it'd be a nice shock and simply because he gets some very unwarranted comments on this forum. It will be either Harry or Chelsee but I'm not voting for anyone....I only voted twice this series, once for Audley and once for Robbie...(usually because I don't remember until lines have closed!)
Originally Posted by Chilli Dragon:
“God yeah...it makes me shudder when they try and force this "romance" angle. It's blatantly obvious that there is no romance, both Chelsee and Pasha look flippin' uncomfortable whenever Tess and Zoe witter on about it. And also, isn't it a bit disrespectful to Pasha's girlfriend? (Although Tess is pretty disrespectful generally...)
Anyhow...I'd rather Jason won because it'd be a nice shock and simply because he gets some very unwarranted comments on this forum. It will be either Harry or Chelsee but I'm not voting for anyone....I only voted twice this series, once for Audley and once for Robbie...(usually because I don't remember until lines have closed!)”
“God yeah...it makes me shudder when they try and force this "romance" angle. It's blatantly obvious that there is no romance, both Chelsee and Pasha look flippin' uncomfortable whenever Tess and Zoe witter on about it. And also, isn't it a bit disrespectful to Pasha's girlfriend? (Although Tess is pretty disrespectful generally...)
Anyhow...I'd rather Jason won because it'd be a nice shock and simply because he gets some very unwarranted comments on this forum. It will be either Harry or Chelsee but I'm not voting for anyone....I only voted twice this series, once for Audley and once for Robbie...(usually because I don't remember until lines have closed!)”
Exactly he must be late 20's at least, and with her being 17 it's hardly romance material
Originally Posted by fancynancy:
“Harry's odds & the amount of money being placed on him are of no consequence unless they are based on insider knowledge of how the vote is going. Failing that, the bookies and those backing Harry are as much in the dark as we are - just educated guesswork.”
“Harry's odds & the amount of money being placed on him are of no consequence unless they are based on insider knowledge of how the vote is going. Failing that, the bookies and those backing Harry are as much in the dark as we are - just educated guesswork.”
Exactly, what I'm saying though is that the bookies adjust their odds solely based on how much money is being placed on certain contestants. Those with the longest odds have the least amount of money placed on them, and those with the shortest are most heavily backed. That's all the odds tell you. That people think Harry will win - it doesn't mean they are voting for him (although if you had placed money on someone to win, it would make sense to vote for them!) At times it might appear like the odds change with circumstances, but it's not the case, it's more circumstances change (e.g. Aliona breaks her leg>>>people stop backing Harry and bet on Chelsee instead>>>>Harry's odds lengthen/Chelsee's shorten), betting patterns change, then the odds change. It all happens quite quickly though.
Originally Posted by workshylady:
“Exactly, what I'm saying though is that the bookies adjust their odds solely based on how much money is being placed on certain contestants. Those with the longest odds have the least amount of money placed on them, and those with the shortest are most heavily backed. That's all the odds tell you. That people think Harry will win - it doesn't mean they are voting for him (although if you had placed money on someone to win, it would make sense to vote for them!) At times it might appear like the odds change with circumstances, but it's not the case, it's more circumstances change (e.g. Aliona breaks her leg>>>people stop backing Harry and bet on Chelsee instead>>>>Harry's odds lengthen/Chelsee's shorten), betting patterns change, then the odds change. It all happens quite quickly though.”
“Exactly, what I'm saying though is that the bookies adjust their odds solely based on how much money is being placed on certain contestants. Those with the longest odds have the least amount of money placed on them, and those with the shortest are most heavily backed. That's all the odds tell you. That people think Harry will win - it doesn't mean they are voting for him (although if you had placed money on someone to win, it would make sense to vote for them!) At times it might appear like the odds change with circumstances, but it's not the case, it's more circumstances change (e.g. Aliona breaks her leg>>>people stop backing Harry and bet on Chelsee instead>>>>Harry's odds lengthen/Chelsee's shorten), betting patterns change, then the odds change. It all happens quite quickly though.”
I think this is an important point though - arguably this type of 'event' is different in that unlike sports events etc., you can actually influence the outcome yourself by voting. I also think it's unlikely that you would bet on the winner if you didn't actually watch the show (and potentially vote).
Originally Posted by echad:
“I think this is an important point though - arguably this type of 'event' is different in that unlike sports events etc., you can actually influence the outcome yourself by voting. I also think it's unlikely that you would bet on the winner if you didn't actually watch the show (and potentially vote).”
“I think this is an important point though - arguably this type of 'event' is different in that unlike sports events etc., you can actually influence the outcome yourself by voting. I also think it's unlikely that you would bet on the winner if you didn't actually watch the show (and potentially vote).”
Depends how many each way bets he has on him e.g. on Eurovision people put each way bets on safe top 4 results but they may not necessarily win.
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