That Yolanda Be Cool track will always belong to Neil from The Inbetweeners now. It was all I could think about as soon as it started up 
Did Artem's wrong music cost Holly a trip to Blackpool
2 of 4
I love the music and I love Holly and Artem but unfortunately it didnt work.
On rewatching the dance I realised that I would have loved to have seen it done by Artem and Aliona I think it would have been great.
On rewatching the dance I realised that I would have loved to have seen it done by Artem and Aliona I think it would have been great.
Unfortunately I have heard that song replayed so many times in clubs that I already hated it by the time i found out that Artem was going to be using it for the dance, and therefore was skeptical of even liking the dance because of how much i hated the tune (it just sounds similar to some of that bad Eurodance/poppy stuff, or whatever that Genre is, as annoying as the crazy frog thing)!
Having said that, the routine was okay, not great and certainly not as engaging as Ola's one for Chris Hollins but, wasn't at all bad for the type of Charleston that it was. It was more how Holly was dancing it that looked to be the problem. She just came across as a behind the choreography at times (which could have for a couple of reasons as already stated). So, while I hated the tune with a passion it didn't distract me from being ok with the routine. It's just a shame Holly under performed it for whatever reason.
Having said that, the routine was okay, not great and certainly not as engaging as Ola's one for Chris Hollins but, wasn't at all bad for the type of Charleston that it was. It was more how Holly was dancing it that looked to be the problem. She just came across as a behind the choreography at times (which could have for a couple of reasons as already stated). So, while I hated the tune with a passion it didn't distract me from being ok with the routine. It's just a shame Holly under performed it for whatever reason.
Originally Posted by misulica:
“I thought Artem outdanced her. It was especially obvious when they were dancing side by side. He really should have reigned it in a bit more
Also, when they did the argentine tango, it just didn't look right that Holly was taller than Artem (in her heels). However good the dance was, that slight height mismatch just spoilt the overall effect IMO. I don't understand why they didn't pair her with a taller pro.”
“I thought Artem outdanced her. It was especially obvious when they were dancing side by side. He really should have reigned it in a bit more
Also, when they did the argentine tango, it just didn't look right that Holly was taller than Artem (in her heels). However good the dance was, that slight height mismatch just spoilt the overall effect IMO. I don't understand why they didn't pair her with a taller pro.”
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“I don't think Artem could choregraph to Holly. Deadpan and laidback ought to have allowed him to create a house style. Australian and beautiful could have been incorporated. Holly can play funny but Artem can't write it. He seems to prefer unusual music to the well loved and well tried, and the beautiful and complicated to the easier and vote grabbing. The Charleston was made for that style, and Ola got 40 for it with a weaker dancer and actor by going simple and familiar and funny. If he had established a house style based on his celeb's personality (as actually the top 3 have) Artem could then have got brownie points by veering off into dramatic and dynamic and balletic dances in key weeks - which she did cope with with style. It was when she didn't have such a strong character or an exaggerated version of herself to play she lost impact. The costumes might have made more sense if she had had a style to demand rather than a different creation every week - which seemed often to fit nothing much. Artem also didn't seem to choregraph to Holly's limitations - unlike almost everyone else did this series. Aliona shielded Harry for weeks and still was hiding him in the QF when needed. Jason has come unstuck before trying to do too much, but Kristina kept her second SF dance to a minimum for him if he could manage the lifts. Holly kept on being sent out with ridiculously long complicated routines and was put out there alongside her partner trying to do the same moves for longer - while even Jason and Harry spent a lot of their time just watching Kristina and Aliona, and no comparisons could be drawn. Artem also seems not to have choregraphed to take account of the workload on his celeb, both in training and on stage. No one else has their celeb trying to do so many moves, and even cartwheels, in the second dance of a week where they have to learn two dances and perform them . Kristina clearly pulled back on Jason's content for their second dance and it worked. It might have all worked anyway for Jason, but Holy doing a funny easier routine in a more obvious costume might have puled in the votes too.
i think he worked with Kara because she is a different style of actress who plays very different characters - while Holly plays it more as Holly in a wide range of abnormal situations and can do it because she's credible in those roles herself. The romance added the house style last year. Kara physically was a better match and also showed on her documentary that she habitually learns things by massive repetition which works with Artems style and difficulty but might easily wear anyone else down.”
“I don't think Artem could choregraph to Holly. Deadpan and laidback ought to have allowed him to create a house style. Australian and beautiful could have been incorporated. Holly can play funny but Artem can't write it. He seems to prefer unusual music to the well loved and well tried, and the beautiful and complicated to the easier and vote grabbing. The Charleston was made for that style, and Ola got 40 for it with a weaker dancer and actor by going simple and familiar and funny. If he had established a house style based on his celeb's personality (as actually the top 3 have) Artem could then have got brownie points by veering off into dramatic and dynamic and balletic dances in key weeks - which she did cope with with style. It was when she didn't have such a strong character or an exaggerated version of herself to play she lost impact. The costumes might have made more sense if she had had a style to demand rather than a different creation every week - which seemed often to fit nothing much. Artem also didn't seem to choregraph to Holly's limitations - unlike almost everyone else did this series. Aliona shielded Harry for weeks and still was hiding him in the QF when needed. Jason has come unstuck before trying to do too much, but Kristina kept her second SF dance to a minimum for him if he could manage the lifts. Holly kept on being sent out with ridiculously long complicated routines and was put out there alongside her partner trying to do the same moves for longer - while even Jason and Harry spent a lot of their time just watching Kristina and Aliona, and no comparisons could be drawn. Artem also seems not to have choregraphed to take account of the workload on his celeb, both in training and on stage. No one else has their celeb trying to do so many moves, and even cartwheels, in the second dance of a week where they have to learn two dances and perform them . Kristina clearly pulled back on Jason's content for their second dance and it worked. It might have all worked anyway for Jason, but Holy doing a funny easier routine in a more obvious costume might have puled in the votes too.
i think he worked with Kara because she is a different style of actress who plays very different characters - while Holly plays it more as Holly in a wide range of abnormal situations and can do it because she's credible in those roles herself. The romance added the house style last year. Kara physically was a better match and also showed on her documentary that she habitually learns things by massive repetition which works with Artems style and difficulty but might easily wear anyone else down.”
Both of these posts say it all for me.
Holly would have been in the final if she were a better communicator. She doesn't give much away.
She proved herself quite capable but her demeanor early on gave an impression of "if you like" when really it was more "I don't want to show off."
She was the least outgoing of those in the semi, yet I considered her more worthy of being in the final than Jason.
Jason is destined for third despite all his attention seeking and showboating.
She proved herself quite capable but her demeanor early on gave an impression of "if you like" when really it was more "I don't want to show off."
She was the least outgoing of those in the semi, yet I considered her more worthy of being in the final than Jason.
Jason is destined for third despite all his attention seeking and showboating.
I loved the dance, and this with Jason and Kristina's tango and Chelsee and Pasha's jive, are the dances I've watched again most times.
I do agree, though, that Holly looked tired during the dance and rather lost at times. Saturday was the first (and obviously last) time I voted for her as I'd have love to have seen their showdance - could have been quite special.
I do agree, though, that Holly looked tired during the dance and rather lost at times. Saturday was the first (and obviously last) time I voted for her as I'd have love to have seen their showdance - could have been quite special.
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“I don't think Artem could choregraph to Holly. [...]”
“I don't think Artem could choregraph to Holly. [...]”
On the surface, this sounds good and I can understand why so many other forum members agree with it, but I'm afraid I disagree with your analysis.
Quote:
“Deadpan and laidback ought to have allowed him to create a house style.”
“Deadpan and laidback ought to have allowed him to create a house style.”
If 'deadpan and laidback' is Holly's house style, then what was that Charleston if not deadpan and laidback? It was the epitome of cool, disdaining the gurning, silly Charlestons that Strictly has decided are what the dance should be about. Holly said on ITT during the week that she hated gurning slapstick, so the style was entirely right for her.
Quote:
“The Charleston was made for that style, and Ola got 40 for it with a weaker dancer and actor by going simple and familiar and funny.”
“The Charleston was made for that style, and Ola got 40 for it with a weaker dancer and actor by going simple and familiar and funny.”
Chris Hollins is on record as saying the Charleston was made for him; expecting Holly to be able to deliver a routine like the Team Cola one, given her personality, is more than a bit of a stretch.
Quote:
“It was when she didn't have such a strong character or an exaggerated version of herself to play she lost impact.”
“It was when she didn't have such a strong character or an exaggerated version of herself to play she lost impact.”
How quickly we forget! She could not have had a stronger character than in her dance to Cell Block Tango in Broadway Week, yet failed to deliver any real impact. Personally, I think that was because of her lack of ability. Had she done that routine later in the series, she would have made a better job of it, as she did with the paso.
Quote:
“Holly kept on being sent out with ridiculously long complicated routines”
“Holly kept on being sent out with ridiculously long complicated routines”
And yet Artem was repeatedly criticised on this forum for faffing abaht with props and not being in hold, yada, yada, yada (cf the tango, VW, AS, AT)
Quote:
“No one else has their celeb trying to do so many moves, and even cartwheels, in the second dance of a week where they have to learn two dances and perform them”
“No one else has their celeb trying to do so many moves, and even cartwheels, in the second dance of a week where they have to learn two dances and perform them”
Well, a cartwheel (if you can do them - I can't and neither, it would seem, can Holly) is easier to do than a dance step if you're not a dancer, so it's as much time-wasting as anything else. I loved their AT, but Holly spent half of it sitting on that stool and didn't have that many complicated steps - I would argue there was far less content than in the AT Artem danced with Kara last year - again, he limited things to her ability.
Quote:
“Kara physically was a better match and also showed on her documentary that she habitually learns things by massive repetition which works with Artems style and difficulty but might easily wear anyone else down”
“Kara physically was a better match and also showed on her documentary that she habitually learns things by massive repetition which works with Artems style and difficulty but might easily wear anyone else down”
Thanks to the producers' love of comedy VTs, we actually have no idea how Artem has been teaching Holly and whether this differs from how he worked with Kara, so this is only supposition. He is an experienced teacher, so should be very accustomed to adapting his teaching style.
Getting back to the question posed by the OP - no, I don't think Artem is to blame for the fact that Holly didn't make the final. She got as far as her ability and popularity with the GBP allowed, and I think she would be the first to agree with that. I have voted for them throughout the series, but I didn't vote for them on Saturday, because I didn't think they deserved to go through - based purely on the lack of quality of Holly's dancing. Mind you, I didn't vote for Jason either, even though I think he deserves his place, but that's because he bores me to tears as soon as he opens his mouth. I'm not consistent...
i get the feeling that in general a lot of women didn't like holly..and a lot of women like jason.
not trying to be rude/controversial, just being honest...from posts that i've read all through the series that's just the impression i get.
not trying to be rude/controversial, just being honest...from posts that i've read all through the series that's just the impression i get.
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“I don't think Artem could choregraph to Holly. Deadpan and laidback ought to have allowed him to create a house style. Australian and beautiful could have been incorporated. Holly can play funny but Artem can't write it. He seems to prefer unusual music to the well loved and well tried, and the beautiful and complicated to the easier and vote grabbing. The Charleston was made for that style, and Ola got 40 for it with a weaker dancer and actor by going simple and familiar and funny. If he had established a house style based on his celeb's personality (as actually the top 3 have) Artem could then have got brownie points by veering off into dramatic and dynamic and balletic dances in key weeks - which she did cope with with style. It was when she didn't have such a strong character or an exaggerated version of herself to play she lost impact. The costumes might have made more sense if she had had a style to demand rather than a different creation every week - which seemed often to fit nothing much. Artem also didn't seem to choregraph to Holly's limitations - unlike almost everyone else did this series. Aliona shielded Harry for weeks and still was hiding him in the QF when needed. Jason has come unstuck before trying to do too much, but Kristina kept her second SF dance to a minimum for him if he could manage the lifts. Holly kept on being sent out with ridiculously long complicated routines and was put out there alongside her partner trying to do the same moves for longer - while even Jason and Harry spent a lot of their time just watching Kristina and Aliona, and no comparisons could be drawn. Artem also seems not to have choregraphed to take account of the workload on his celeb, both in training and on stage. No one else has their celeb trying to do so many moves, and even cartwheels, in the second dance of a week where they have to learn two dances and perform them . Kristina clearly pulled back on Jason's content for their second dance and it worked. It might have all worked anyway for Jason, but Holy doing a funny easier routine in a more obvious costume might have puled in the votes too.
i think he worked with Kara because she is a different style of actress who plays very different characters - while Holly plays it more as Holly in a wide range of abnormal situations and can do it because she's credible in those roles herself. The romance added the house style last year. Kara physically was a better match and also showed on her documentary that she habitually learns things by massive repetition which works with Artems style and difficulty but might easily wear anyone else down.”
“I don't think Artem could choregraph to Holly. Deadpan and laidback ought to have allowed him to create a house style. Australian and beautiful could have been incorporated. Holly can play funny but Artem can't write it. He seems to prefer unusual music to the well loved and well tried, and the beautiful and complicated to the easier and vote grabbing. The Charleston was made for that style, and Ola got 40 for it with a weaker dancer and actor by going simple and familiar and funny. If he had established a house style based on his celeb's personality (as actually the top 3 have) Artem could then have got brownie points by veering off into dramatic and dynamic and balletic dances in key weeks - which she did cope with with style. It was when she didn't have such a strong character or an exaggerated version of herself to play she lost impact. The costumes might have made more sense if she had had a style to demand rather than a different creation every week - which seemed often to fit nothing much. Artem also didn't seem to choregraph to Holly's limitations - unlike almost everyone else did this series. Aliona shielded Harry for weeks and still was hiding him in the QF when needed. Jason has come unstuck before trying to do too much, but Kristina kept her second SF dance to a minimum for him if he could manage the lifts. Holly kept on being sent out with ridiculously long complicated routines and was put out there alongside her partner trying to do the same moves for longer - while even Jason and Harry spent a lot of their time just watching Kristina and Aliona, and no comparisons could be drawn. Artem also seems not to have choregraphed to take account of the workload on his celeb, both in training and on stage. No one else has their celeb trying to do so many moves, and even cartwheels, in the second dance of a week where they have to learn two dances and perform them . Kristina clearly pulled back on Jason's content for their second dance and it worked. It might have all worked anyway for Jason, but Holy doing a funny easier routine in a more obvious costume might have puled in the votes too.
i think he worked with Kara because she is a different style of actress who plays very different characters - while Holly plays it more as Holly in a wide range of abnormal situations and can do it because she's credible in those roles herself. The romance added the house style last year. Kara physically was a better match and also showed on her documentary that she habitually learns things by massive repetition which works with Artems style and difficulty but might easily wear anyone else down.”
Wow , well said networkbabe
.I couldnt have said it better.I think that Artem is a brilliant, innovative choreographer but I dont think he knows how to choreograph to suit his celeb's ability(that's the only criticism I have about his choreography).His choreography worked with Kara but dont give a routine to a celeb when she cant handle it.Dont leave her by herself or outdance her b/c thats to her detriment.
He should know her strengths and weaknesses and highlight or conceal them.I think he did a fantastic job with her by hiding some of her weaknesses at the beginning but towards the end it showed.
I think Artem did choreograph according to Holly's style. He included a lot of easy but visually appealing moves (e.g. in the tango, the cha cha, the VW, the paso) and in the ballroom dances he kept her out of hold as much as possible. I assume that was done because she has a slightly lazy frame, and they don't match in height which doesn't give them a very good ballroom hold - it makes it more difficult for Artem to look like he's leading and Holly is following.
He avoided a routine with typical Charleston gurning, knowing that she wouldn't be comfortable. He did the same with the jive routine. He choreographed the Black Swan AS, recognising that although she can look a little bit lethargic when dancing, her long lines are suited to a more balletic style of dance.
I actually think Artem's choreography this year has been a masterclass in understanding his celeb's personality and weaknesses, but still creating original and very watchable pieces of choreography. The only part where he may have fell short is in overestimating her physical fitness.
He avoided a routine with typical Charleston gurning, knowing that she wouldn't be comfortable. He did the same with the jive routine. He choreographed the Black Swan AS, recognising that although she can look a little bit lethargic when dancing, her long lines are suited to a more balletic style of dance.
I actually think Artem's choreography this year has been a masterclass in understanding his celeb's personality and weaknesses, but still creating original and very watchable pieces of choreography. The only part where he may have fell short is in overestimating her physical fitness.
Originally Posted by echad:
“I think Artem did choreograph according to Holly's style. He included a lot of easy but visually appealing moves (e.g. in the tango, the cha cha, the VW, the paso) and in the ballroom dances he kept her out of hold as much as possible. I assume that was done because she has a slightly lazy frame, and they don't match in height which doesn't give them a very good ballroom hold - it makes it more difficult for Artem to look like he's leading and Holly is following.
He avoided a routine with typical Charleston gurning, knowing that she wouldn't be comfortable. He did the same with the jive routine. He choreographed the Black Swan AS, recognising that although she can look a little bit lethargic when dancing, her long lines are suited to a more balletic style of dance.
I actually think Artem's choreography this year has been a masterclass in understanding his celeb's personality and weaknesses, but still creating original and very watchable pieces of choreography. The only part where he may have fell short is in overestimating her physical fitness.”
“I think Artem did choreograph according to Holly's style. He included a lot of easy but visually appealing moves (e.g. in the tango, the cha cha, the VW, the paso) and in the ballroom dances he kept her out of hold as much as possible. I assume that was done because she has a slightly lazy frame, and they don't match in height which doesn't give them a very good ballroom hold - it makes it more difficult for Artem to look like he's leading and Holly is following.
He avoided a routine with typical Charleston gurning, knowing that she wouldn't be comfortable. He did the same with the jive routine. He choreographed the Black Swan AS, recognising that although she can look a little bit lethargic when dancing, her long lines are suited to a more balletic style of dance.
I actually think Artem's choreography this year has been a masterclass in understanding his celeb's personality and weaknesses, but still creating original and very watchable pieces of choreography. The only part where he may have fell short is in overestimating her physical fitness.”
But the thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me in both the Jive and the Charleston was how much Artem out danced his celeb making her performance look bad. He needs to match his celeb much more than he did with Holly. I don't understand why he can't see this in the training room mirrors. Holly's dancing wasn't that bad, but it looked so much worse next to Artem going hell for leather. Maybe he should have slowed the music down just a tad to suit Holly's pace and that would have slowed him down too.
Originally Posted by blomes:
“Holly did a brilliant (but undermarked) Argentine Tango but what cost her a trip to Blackpool was the dreadful Charleston music, a very unflattering outfit and odd choreography.
With traditional Charleston music and traditional Charleston dress she would probably have had the edge on Jason.
Sorry, Artem, but it just did not work. Professionals should know by now that the right music for the right dance makes all the difference! It was a costly mistake”
“Holly did a brilliant (but undermarked) Argentine Tango but what cost her a trip to Blackpool was the dreadful Charleston music, a very unflattering outfit and odd choreography.
With traditional Charleston music and traditional Charleston dress she would probably have had the edge on Jason.
Sorry, Artem, but it just did not work. Professionals should know by now that the right music for the right dance makes all the difference! It was a costly mistake”
I don't think Artem can be faulted in any way, Holly simply did not have a big enough fan base.
Originally Posted by BuddyBontheNet:
“But the thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me in both the Jive and the Charleston was how much Artem out danced his celeb making her performance look bad. He needs to match his celeb much more than he did with Holly. I don't understand why he can't see this in the training room mirrors. Holly's dancing wasn't that bad, but it looked so much worse next to Artem going hell for leather. Maybe he should have slowed the music down just a tad to suit Holly's pace and that would have slowed him down too.”
“But the thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me in both the Jive and the Charleston was how much Artem out danced his celeb making her performance look bad. He needs to match his celeb much more than he did with Holly. I don't understand why he can't see this in the training room mirrors. Holly's dancing wasn't that bad, but it looked so much worse next to Artem going hell for leather. Maybe he should have slowed the music down just a tad to suit Holly's pace and that would have slowed him down too.”
I don't understand this point, do you mean he should change to easier choreography or he should dance the same thing, just not as... well? Dance, but in a kind of half-assed way?
Originally Posted by echad:
“I don't understand this point, do you mean he should change to easier choreography or he should dance the same thing, just not as... well? Dance, but in a kind of half-assed way?”
“I don't understand this point, do you mean he should change to easier choreography or he should dance the same thing, just not as... well? Dance, but in a kind of half-assed way?
”
Preferably both. He could make it slightly easier by not including quite as much step variation, but more than anything he should match his pace to his celeb;s. It's not half assed dancing, it's what the other pros do all the time. Watch any of them with their celeb in a side by side section and you will see what I mean.
If he slowed down the music to suit the celeb's pace maybe that would help too. The other pros do this all the time too.
Holly isn't Kara and I think he would struggle with a real duffer.
Originally Posted by BuddyBontheNet:
“Preferably both. He could make it slightly easier by not including quite as much step variation, but more than anything he should match his pace to his celeb;s. It's not half assed dancing, it's what the other pros do all the time. Watch any of them with their celeb in a side by side section and you will see what I mean.
If he slowed down the music to suit the celeb's pace maybe that would help too. The other pros do this all the time too.
Holly isn't Kara and I think he would struggle with a real duffer.”
“Preferably both. He could make it slightly easier by not including quite as much step variation, but more than anything he should match his pace to his celeb;s. It's not half assed dancing, it's what the other pros do all the time. Watch any of them with their celeb in a side by side section and you will see what I mean.
If he slowed down the music to suit the celeb's pace maybe that would help too. The other pros do this all the time too.
Holly isn't Kara and I think he would struggle with a real duffer.”
I think simpler choreography and a slower pace would definitely help a less capable celeb, but I honestly haven't seen any difference for any of the pros between how they dance with their celeb partner and how they dance with their pro partner in terms of the actual execution of the steps. Choreographically yes, but other than that I don't see it.
Originally Posted by BuddyBontheNet:
“But the thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me in both the Jive and the Charleston was how much Artem out danced his celeb making her performance look bad. He needs to match his celeb much more than he did with Holly. I don't understand why he can't see this in the training room mirrors. Holly's dancing wasn't that bad, but it looked so much worse next to Artem going hell for leather. Maybe he should have slowed the music down just a tad to suit Holly's pace and that would have slowed him down too.”
“But the thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me in both the Jive and the Charleston was how much Artem out danced his celeb making her performance look bad. He needs to match his celeb much more than he did with Holly. I don't understand why he can't see this in the training room mirrors. Holly's dancing wasn't that bad, but it looked so much worse next to Artem going hell for leather. Maybe he should have slowed the music down just a tad to suit Holly's pace and that would have slowed him down too.”
You could say that about every single pro and I think it's a massive problem or maybe massively more apparent with the female pros than the males. How many posts have we had over the years about Ola's pole dancing around celebrities to distract from terrible dancing or standing still, or even about Kristina's dancing in the AT on Saturday while many complained about Jason doing apparently very little. I'm lucky, I've successfully wiped it from my brain, having the memory of an amoeba is an advantage sometimes.
The female pro often outdances the celeb, but the judges take account of that, I think.
I think it was purely Holly's time and Artem did amazingly well to get someone that not well known and foreign to semis - Martina Hingis anyone?
Originally Posted by *stargazer*:
“Artem has been under par since his injury and I feel he was not at full capacity after his week off. He seemed terrified he was going to injure himself again and it made for quite uncomfortable viewing IMO.”
“Artem has been under par since his injury and I feel he was not at full capacity after his week off. He seemed terrified he was going to injure himself again and it made for quite uncomfortable viewing IMO.”
i agree with you
Originally Posted by PinkyPig:
“Holly simply not being popular enough cost Holly a trip to Blackpool, not Artem, not the poorly performed Charleston, not the AT not receiving enough overmarking. Holly, lovely lady, beautiful, seems quite good fun in a laid back way, but off our TV screens for such a long while and out of sight is out of mind.
Someone had to go out, the public have decided to vote for other contestants and not Holly.”
“Holly simply not being popular enough cost Holly a trip to Blackpool, not Artem, not the poorly performed Charleston, not the AT not receiving enough overmarking. Holly, lovely lady, beautiful, seems quite good fun in a laid back way, but off our TV screens for such a long while and out of sight is out of mind.
Someone had to go out, the public have decided to vote for other contestants and not Holly.”
Yes! Somebody talks some sense around here, how hard is it to work out - Holly wasnt popular enough, she had been in the bottom2 twice in a row, despite pretty good marks (not even a bounce back vote!) and after a very good previous week I suspect the support had fizzled out, again - she was only ever going to score 2 points max in the public vote- no way more than Chelsee and Harry, Jason was very possibly going to get a bounce back, and even Alex had clearly been getting a decent amount of votes to stay out of the bottom2 all this time - she was set for 2 points MAX from the public vote.
Originally Posted by BuddyBontheNet:
“But the thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me in both the Jive and the Charleston was how much Artem out danced his celeb making her performance look bad. He needs to match his celeb much more than he did with Holly. I don't understand why he can't see this in the training room mirrors. Holly's dancing wasn't that bad, but it looked so much worse next to Artem going hell for leather. Maybe he should have slowed the music down just a tad to suit Holly's pace and that would have slowed him down too.”
“But the thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me in both the Jive and the Charleston was how much Artem out danced his celeb making her performance look bad. He needs to match his celeb much more than he did with Holly. I don't understand why he can't see this in the training room mirrors. Holly's dancing wasn't that bad, but it looked so much worse next to Artem going hell for leather. Maybe he should have slowed the music down just a tad to suit Holly's pace and that would have slowed him down too.”
I get where you are coming from, I thought the same on Saturday. Holly did well, but Artem outdanced her and when you see two partners side by side like that it really does highlight the flaws in the contestants dancing. Artem is going at this fast past, with all these different steps and sequences, doing everything as slick and fantastic as he can but Holly is next to him trying to match his level and she couldnt quite do that - he needs to slow it down or make it to the contestants level, rather than making them catch up to his level.
I don't think it was the wrong music, even though it was a strange choice for the Charleston. He needed to use something modern to keep Holly interested as on the night she didn't look too taken with the dance whilst performing it.
Originally Posted by Alli-F:
“You could say that about every single pro and I think it's a massive problem or maybe massively more apparent with the female pros than the males. How many posts have we had over the years about Ola's pole dancing around celebrities to distract from terrible dancing or standing still, or even about Kristina's dancing in the AT on Saturday while many complained about Jason doing apparently very little. I'm lucky, I've successfully wiped it from my brain, having the memory of an amoeba is an advantage sometimes.”
“You could say that about every single pro and I think it's a massive problem or maybe massively more apparent with the female pros than the males. How many posts have we had over the years about Ola's pole dancing around celebrities to distract from terrible dancing or standing still, or even about Kristina's dancing in the AT on Saturday while many complained about Jason doing apparently very little. I'm lucky, I've successfully wiped it from my brain, having the memory of an amoeba is an advantage sometimes.
”
It's not quite the same thing though. The female dancers tend to buzz around doing this pole dancing to distract from the awfulness of their celeb partner and fill in the time so they dance as little as possible. The point that BBN brought up is that when doing something like a Jive or Charleston, the celeb and pro are doing something insync and if the Pro is doing everything much faster and better than the celeb then they are just exposing the celebs flaws and their inablility to keep up. Some pros are good at tailoring it to a place where they look even, on the same level so it looks slick and professional even if it is not necessarily the hardest chorography. It's too easy to compare the two dancers in the Charleston and it's best if the Pro isnt utterly amazing whilst the celeb flops otherwise it just puts emphasis on their limitations.
I just wanted to add that if you watch the Charleston routine again and just watch Holly, you will see that she did a really great job with such complicated choreography. If we had been watching SYTYCD and another trained dancer was Artem's partner, I'd have been blown away.
We'll never now how close the voting was, but I think the right couples went home.
We'll never now how close the voting was, but I think the right couples went home.
To answer the question in the thread: nope!
Coming joint 4th in this year's line up is a good achievement and any three of the five could have made it to the final - it vrey much depended on how the public vote went.
Coming joint 4th in this year's line up is a good achievement and any three of the five could have made it to the final - it vrey much depended on how the public vote went.
Originally Posted by stash22:
“It's not quite the same thing though. The female dancers tend to buzz around doing this pole dancing to distract from the awfulness of their celeb partner and fill in the time so they dance as little as possible. The point that BBN brought up is that when doing something like a Jive or Charleston, the celeb and pro are doing something insync and if the Pro is doing everything much faster and better than the celeb then they are just exposing the celebs flaws and their inablility to keep up. Some pros are good at tailoring it to a place where they look even, on the same level so it looks slick and professional even if it is not necessarily the hardest chorography. It's too easy to compare the two dancers in the Charleston and it's best if the Pro isnt utterly amazing whilst the celeb flops otherwise it just puts emphasis on their limitations.”
“It's not quite the same thing though. The female dancers tend to buzz around doing this pole dancing to distract from the awfulness of their celeb partner and fill in the time so they dance as little as possible. The point that BBN brought up is that when doing something like a Jive or Charleston, the celeb and pro are doing something insync and if the Pro is doing everything much faster and better than the celeb then they are just exposing the celebs flaws and their inablility to keep up. Some pros are good at tailoring it to a place where they look even, on the same level so it looks slick and professional even if it is not necessarily the hardest chorography. It's too easy to compare the two dancers in the Charleston and it's best if the Pro isnt utterly amazing whilst the celeb flops otherwise it just puts emphasis on their limitations.”
I think Artem did slow his dance speed down - but I also think Holly was flagging and probably danced it slower than she usually did. You only have to watch the Katya/Pasha jive to Cara Emerald to see how fast the pro's go when they are jiving for real - it's like fast forward
Having watched Mark Ballas on DWTS completely out dance his partner everytime in the last series, I really don't think Artem came anywhere close to that.
In a word No
To my mind i felt there was a lack of effort and commitment from her
I think Artem over compensated for that somewhat but then he does have a tendency to overcommit
Although based on some opinions i'm hearing now its due to her colossal stature
which frankly worries me about people's opinions of what constitutes big
To my mind i felt there was a lack of effort and commitment from her
I think Artem over compensated for that somewhat but then he does have a tendency to overcommit
Although based on some opinions i'm hearing now its due to her colossal stature
which frankly worries me about people's opinions of what constitutes big
Holly's been lovely (loved her AT), but...
She danced a techno-Charleston in which she lost the timing and forgot the steps to some terrible Euro-pop wearing a big paid of grey knickers and a yellow duster tied at the shoulder. It was always going to be "Taxi for Miss Valance!"
I don't think it can all be blamed on Artem
She danced a techno-Charleston in which she lost the timing and forgot the steps to some terrible Euro-pop wearing a big paid of grey knickers and a yellow duster tied at the shoulder. It was always going to be "Taxi for Miss Valance!"
I don't think it can all be blamed on Artem
2 of 4
