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Did Artem's wrong music cost Holly a trip to Blackpool |
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#76 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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I think this is the best summing up of the situation.
rewatched it all on HD on my PC screen and my feeling is that Holly knew as well as Alex did that she had got as far as she was going to go. Trouble is, every time she said she was surprised at how long she'd lasted, nobody would believe her. Holly started with about as much talent as Edwina Currie, so why should anybody expect her to "dance beyond her skill set?" Holly only teared with emotion during the video highlights, just seeing how good she had got. Not tears of disappointment, just of emotion. I loved the group lift in the last dance section. They seemed to be pretty OK with the result, and how nice not to be the only couple eliminated so close to the end. I still have to catch up on the ITT Monday show, so will see if I'm right then. and to whom ever said women didn't like Holly I know quite a few how really do |
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#77 |
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Join Date: May 2005
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What an incredibly insightful and interesting post, all of which I agree with. I have come to like Artem a lot now and his strength is his innovative choreography, but it is a bit of a one size must fit all - and of course it doesn't. Having said all that, I think Holly still wouldn't have won but I think she might have made it to the final which would have been nice because I have so enjoyed them. But she and Brendan would have been a much better pairing. Holly has a divine figure but she is statuesque compared to the waif-like Kara Tointon and I always felt uncomfortable when Artem was lifting Holly. There bodies were not in proportion and I think the BBC were wrong to pair them together, putting possible PR value ahead of a good match
He totally changed the style of his Choreo to suit Holly. He said himself in an interview that Kara and Holly were completely different to choreograph for, Kara was more fast and energetic whereas Holly took longer to do things and was all about the 'long lines'. And he choreographed to suit this. Even Ian Waite commented on this in one of his Wednesday review on ITT. He was also aware that Holly was better out of hold and kept her out of hold as much as possible. Routines like their foxy foxtrot played up to her sexiness and showed of her long legs with the kick section etc He choreographed the Black Swan, recognising her long lines are suited to the more balletic style of dance. He avoided a traditional Charleston,because he knew like all of us that she couldn't pull that off and he did the same with the jive, coming up with a great routine to suit her. In fact overall I think he should be commended for doing a brilliant job in coming up with routines that suited his partners strengths and weaknesses while at the same time keeping them innovative. Quote:
You keep saying that hun and I genuinely can't see it.
I think that was a dance she was always going to be ok at, it can be done a lot out of hold, it was slow and doesn't take a huge amount of acting skill, I think she would have scored quite highly if she'd done it with Artem and it was his choreography anyway. ![]() I thinkthe Artem and Holly partnership was fantastic and they balanced each other's strengths and weaknesses really well. I honestly think he got her much further than most others would have because she just wasn't that good a dancer. ![]() But hey, that's the fun of a discussion board, we all have different views. |
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#78 |
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I thought it was a stunning, original dance to very catchy music.
Holly just wasn't very good in the execution. On ITT tonight Karen Hardy's bit had a slow-mo clip, and you can see Holly is way behind Artem and not moving the kicks nearly as far as him, making her look even more out of synch. Interesting point about weight, as IIRC the costume people had issues with Pamela last year as she lost so much weight. Holly looked big in the her first few dances, and that shorts costume made her look very big and hippy, and probably exaggerated her kicks weakness. A skirt or dress may have been better. |
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#79 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Interesting point about weight, as IIRC the costume people had issues with Pamela last year as she lost so much weight.
Holly looked big in the her first few dances, and that shorts costume made her look very big and hippy, and probably exaggerated her kicks weakness. A skirt or dress may have been better. |
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#80 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Bottomline is that Holly is simply just an average dancer with very few and far between exceptional moves (only to go almost flat towards the end of the routine).
Her problems were mainly she's too lacklustre both her lower body & esp those feet & sometimes legs & then combine with expressionless face...she just can't keep up with the emotional aspect of a dance. Shame because as always Artem's choreos were brilliant throughout the competition & Holly was just not able to carry them out with her partner. IMO Holly lost the competition for Artem this series. I don't think Artem's routines were as focused on getting votes, pacing his celeb, avoiding risks and avoidable difficulty or finding his actress a role to act or establishing a winning character. That seems partly to be his nature and partly to do with Holly. From what she says she was in the show for a challenge and to learn to dance and she didn't have any reason to or want to go for anything OTT, non Holly like and vote winning or easier. She had no reason or wish to show she could do a traditional slapstick Charleston and so went for something new and different and unfamiliar. In that sense, they seem to have been trying to achieve the same thing. That doesn't mean at all that Holly would be as tired doing something else, that she couldn't handle Alex's routines better or that if you made her she couldn't act and dance most of their routines as well, if not better, than Chelsee or Jason. I did think it was Artem, but the more you listen to Holly she wanted to go in the same direction.Whether Brendan or Pasha or Ian Waite or a male equivalent of Aliona or Ola would have taken her somewhere else, and into the final, is another question - and she still might not beat Chelsee or Harry there.. |
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#81 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Anyone who thinks that Brendan's choreography is better than that of Artem is blind.
Holly's last dance did suffer, though not from the music but that she just did not have the energy left in her to dance any style of Charleston. I still think she should have got to the final after that supreme AT. Artem on the other hand is more innovative with his choreography for his celebs, but he is not always successful at creating a routine that pleases all the judges (including Len on the technical aspects of each dance) and the public. Last year he was the new boy who is easy on the eye and had a partner with real ability and who he found love with. That ticked a lot of boxes and despite Len not always being happy with his choreography, Artem won, . This year Holly who was no duffer and 4th place is a very acceptable finish, but who knows if she would have got further with Brendan? Personally I don't think she would have won, but she might have made the final three. I think she would have gelled better with Brendan and he would have got good performances from her without her having to work as hard as she did with Artem. As a result I think she would have enjoyed the whole process a little bit more and that would show. I hope Artem and Brendan come back next year. .
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#82 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Holly did a brilliant (but undermarked) Argentine Tango but what cost her a trip to Blackpool was the dreadful Charleston music, a very unflattering outfit and odd choreography.
With traditional Charleston music and traditional Charleston dress she would probably have had the edge on Jason. Sorry, Artem, but it just did not work. Professionals should know by now that the right music for the right dance makes all the difference! It was a costly mistake I thought it was very quirky and one that I shall go on youtube to watch again. BUT - I agree that the outfit was pretty naff and did not suit her figure shape at all. And although Holly did a pretty decent job, I agree with Craig (or was it Len?) in that it wasn't quite sharp enough, would love to have seen Artem & Kara perform this one. |
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#83 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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I think Brendan is better than Artem at choreographing for celebs on the show and that's because I have seen him paired with celebs with a wide range of abilities including some real duffers. Friends who have seen Brendan's show all rage about how good it was, even those who are not big Brendan fans, but enjoy dancing (they have booked again for next year's show too). So I know he is capable of producing fantastic choreography outside SCD.
Artem on the other hand is more innovative with his choreography for his celebs, but he is not always successful at creating a routine that pleases all the judges (including Len on the technical aspects of each dance) and the public. Last year he was the new boy who is easy on the eye and had a partner with real ability and who he found love with. That ticked a lot of boxes and despite Len not always being happy with his choreography, Artem won, . This year Holly who was no duffer and 4th place is a very acceptable finish, but who knows if she would have got further with Brendan? Personally I don't think she would have won, but she might have made the final three. I think she would have gelled better with Brendan and he would have got good performances from her without her having to work as hard as she did with Artem. As a result I think she would have enjoyed the whole process a little bit more and that would show. I hope Artem and Brendan come back next year. . Brendan's also had a bit of a redemption on here, he really wasn't popular for a while in the middle years. ![]() I don't think Brendan choreographed very well for Michelle Williams who seemed to have the same core/posture problems as Holly but was maybe messier and less lazy looking than Holly (not that I'm saying Holly is lazy, just that her dancing had a lazy look to it) and so I honestly don't think he would have done as well or got Holly as far but it's all conjecture, none of us will ever know.
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#84 |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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I've loved Hooly - that devilish smile is very seductive - but no Artem's music did not cost her a place in the final. imo she lagged behind the top 3 by quite a distance.
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#85 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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I think you've just had a chance to see more of Brendan's routines for different celebs as obviously he has done all the series, this is Artem's second.
Brendan's also had a bit of a redemption on here, he really wasn't popular for a while in the middle years. ![]() I don't think Brendan choreographed very well for Michelle Williams who seemed to have the same core/posture problems as Holly but was maybe messier and less lazy looking than Holly (not that I'm saying Holly is lazy, just that her dancing had a lazy look to it) and so I honestly don't think he would have done as well or got Holly as far but it's all conjecture, none of us will ever know. ![]() He definitely struggled with Michelle and her lack of musicality was weird to watch (like a baby giraffe!), but they did get on well. I guess the bottom line is when a pro gets a celeb that has no rhythm they will struggle!
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#86 |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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I've loved Hooly - that devilish smile is very seductive - but no Artem's music did not cost her a place in the final. imo she lagged behind the top 3 by quite a distance.
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#87 |
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Oi! Are you trying to turn me into a jellus hatah?
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#88 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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I thought the music wasnt down to them alone, they also prob have help with choreography, not help but guidelines to stick to for tv purposes, same for music
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#89 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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I think Brendan is better than Artem at choreographing for celebs on the show and that's because I have seen him paired with celebs with a wide range of abilities including some real duffers. Friends who have seen Brendan's show all rage about how good it was, even those who are not big Brendan fans, but enjoy dancing (they have booked again for next year's show too). So I know he is capable of producing fantastic choreography outside SCD.
Artem on the other hand is more innovative with his choreography for his celebs, but he is not always successful at creating a routine that pleases all the judges (including Len on the technical aspects of each dance) and the public. Last year he was the new boy who is easy on the eye and had a partner with real ability and who he found love with. That ticked a lot of boxes and despite Len not always being happy with his choreography, Artem won, . This year Holly who was no duffer and 4th place is a very acceptable finish, but who knows if she would have got further with Brendan? Personally I don't think she would have won, but she might have made the final three. I think she would have gelled better with Brendan and he would have got good performances from her without her having to work as hard as she did with Artem. As a result I think she would have enjoyed the whole process a little bit more and that would show. I hope Artem and Brendan come back next year. . |
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#90 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Well I loved it!
I thought it was very quirky and one that I shall go on youtube to watch again. BUT - I agree that the outfit was pretty naff and did not suit her figure shape at all. And although Holly did a pretty decent job, I agree with Craig (or was it Len?) in that it wasn't quite sharp enough, would love to have seen Artem & Kara perform this one. |
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#91 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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I thought it was a stunning, original dance to very catchy music.
Holly just wasn't very good in the execution. On ITT tonight Karen Hardy's bit had a slow-mo clip, and you can see Holly is way behind Artem and not moving the kicks nearly as far as him, making her look even more out of synch. Interesting point about weight, as IIRC the costume people had issues with Pamela last year as she lost so much weight. Holly looked big in the her first few dances, and that shorts costume made her look very big and hippy, and probably exaggerated her kicks weakness. A skirt or dress may have been better. |
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#92 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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the Charleston outfit was appalling for Holly's shape. Anythng tucked in looked awful on her. She has a great body but not chopped up in to awful shorts. Gave her a huge bum and no waist. Felt so sorry that she had to take her final bows in such a naf outfit. Mean.
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#93 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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nothing to do with Artem's musical choices. Holly just didn't connect with the voters. SImple.
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#94 |
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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Personally I think Artem choreographed to bring out the best in Holly and chose music that engaged her too - I'm sure he'd have tried everything he could to show her to best advantage.
I just think Holly couldn't project enough - I'm sure she thought she was doing so. She was heavy footed sometimes but no worse than Alex or Jase have been been in other areas, even Chelsee (who I just love) often has a few wobbly moments. What Holly would have benefited from is simply lifting her gaze and selling the dance to the audience, I really do think it's as simple as that. If she'd have done this all of her dances would have come across 100% better, the judges would have been more forgiving, the public more entertained and I'd guess she'd still be in the competition. I don't think there is an exceptional dancer this year. Harry and Chelsee are wonderful and both have and will produce excellent routines (and I'm sure Kristina with choreo and dance brilliantly too) but I think Holly wasn't that far behind in talent, musicality and grace - she just couldn't sell it too us enough... even in her best dances imo. |
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#95 |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Holly tired - I think she looks pregnant. Not so much in the charleston outfit, but the shorts did have quite a large tight band, maybe to hold in her tummy. If you look at her in other dances and dresses though you'll see what I mean.
If she's not pregnant she must be the only contestant who's not lost weight during the series. |
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#96 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Loved both the choreography and the music, but I think Holly was just too tired to have the lightness of foot that a Charleston needs.
Gutted to see her go out though, as I do feel her AT was better than Jason's, and deserved more than 4 9s (political voting, anyone??) Anyway the female vote will determine Harry will win and he just about deserves it on his consistant performances over the weeks. |
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#97 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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The forum is obsessed with the passing of Holly, even those not supporting her. She will be Banquo's ghost at the banquet, the shining star not in the sky. I shall wear a black armband and boycott the Final.
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#98 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Holly did a brilliant (but undermarked) Argentine Tango but what cost her a trip to Blackpool was the dreadful Charleston music, a very unflattering outfit and odd choreography.
With traditional Charleston music and traditional Charleston dress she would probably have had the edge on Jason. Sorry, Artem, but it just did not work. Professionals should know by now that the right music for the right dance makes all the difference! It was a costly mistake |
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I think that was a dance she was always going to be ok at, it can be done a lot out of hold, it was slow and doesn't take a huge amount of acting skill, I think she would have scored quite highly if she'd done it with Artem and it was his choreography anyway.
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Brendan's also had a bit of a redemption on here, he really wasn't popular for a while in the middle years.
He definitely struggled with Michelle and her lack of musicality was weird to watch (like a baby giraffe!), but they did get on well. I guess the bottom line is when a pro gets a celeb that has no rhythm they will struggle! 