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Time for Craig to go?


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Old 12-12-2011, 19:28
SCDchick
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What a very unpleasant post. Not worth wasting my common, northern breath responding to you, other than to say what a thankfully rare atttitude.
I agree with the person for posting that, strictly come dancing is more of a popularity contest than a dancing contest. same with all the other talent shows on tv
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Old 12-12-2011, 19:32
SCDchick
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I think it's more a case of creative marking by the judges to ensure the right people(or their favourites) got through to the final. They know Harry's got the public vote, and Chelsee will pick up the down market/former X-factor viewers or common northern types.
thankyou. I believe this! I havent got anything against chelsee as a person i am on about the dancing. But this isnt a dancing contest entirely is it, its more of a popularity contest, i am sure
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Old 12-12-2011, 19:34
SCDchick
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This point is so interesting because I thought the hesitation was a blip on Chelsee's part - now I know it really was worth 10s!

I can't believe the OP would start a post because Craig gave a 9 and not a 10, especially when he gave an explanation!
So where was the explanation for him giving chelsee a 10 with a clearly visibly flawed dance? No pick-up on the wobbly-ness and the ridiculous run to pasha at the end before the final move (when she leaned back with pasha supporting her head) amongst other things
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Old 12-12-2011, 19:39
Kmc1978
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So where was the explanation for him giving chelsee a 10 with a clearly visibly flawed dance? No pick-up on the wobbly-ness and the ridiculous run to pasha at the end before the final move (when she leaned back with pasha supporting her head) amongst other things
Post 35 on page 2 suggests that it wasn't wobbly or flawed. Another poster remarked on a review by someone who dances, who said that Chelsee had danced it properly & that is just the flamenco style. I'm not a dancer myself, so I cannot comment further than that.
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Old 12-12-2011, 19:39
SCDchick
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So just because he didn't give you're favourite a 10 he should go? OK then, that makes sense
Another one who didnt read the post properly.....
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Old 12-12-2011, 19:41
SCDchick
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Post 35 on page 2 suggests that it wasn't wobbly or flawed. Another poster remarked on a review by someone who dances, who said that Chelsee had danced it properly & that is just the flamenco style. I'm not a dancer myself, so I cannot comment further than that.
Im kind of amazed right now, because i dont understand it at all

Im sure there are other people who see what i saw, or maybe im not describing it correctly
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Old 12-12-2011, 19:41
SCD-Observer
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So where was the explanation for him giving chelsee a 10 with a clearly visibly flawed dance? No pick-up on the wobbly-ness and the ridiculous run to pasha at the end before the final move (when she leaned back with pasha supporting her head) amongst other things
I take it you don't like Chelsee much?

Sorry, I can't resist after you accused me of not liking Harry much in another thread.
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Old 12-12-2011, 20:15
Cadiva
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thankyou. I believe this! I havent got anything against chelsee as a person i am on about the dancing. But this isnt a dancing contest entirely is it, its more of a popularity contest, i am sure
Yes, it always has been so nothing new there either or did you forget Chris Parker in series one, Julian Clary in series two etc ad nauseum. SCD has always been about people connecting with their favourite couple and never about who was the best technical dancer. Only on rare occasions have the two things married together to produce a winner who was both - Jill Halfpenny being the obvious example.

Im kind of amazed right now, because i dont understand it at all

Im sure there are other people who see what i saw, or maybe im not describing it correctly
No, I have no idea what you're talking about either. The only possible "flaw" in the dance was that Chelsee didn't go down very far on the running splits step they appear to have attempted, something Craig picked up on.

There's also no such thing as a perfect dance really, there will always be areas where a judge can pick up for suggestions for encouragement etc. I've never seen anyone, not even the greatest dancers of all time, dance something utterly without fault.
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Old 12-12-2011, 20:35
diamond1
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Cant believe he gave Harry a 9 for his charleston, it was just what charlestons are supposed to be like! His dancing was so nifty, light and energetic, even chelsee couldent do better than that! He was so light on his feet. I really dont understand Craig....Chelsees paso doble had flaws and was wibbly wobbly, and being the nitty-gritty picky perfectionist that he is, still gave her a 10. Maybe its time for craig to go? Its taking the mick
or perhaps it's just that Craig saw flaws in Harry's charleston that you didn't see and didn't see the flaws in Chelsee's paso that you saw

personally I didn't see all the faults he said were in Chelsee's American Smooth and thought it deserved a 9 instead of the 8 he gave her, but he's the judge and it's his opinion ............ I don't think the heinous crime of giving Chelsee a 10 for her paso and not giving Harry a 10 merits him losing his job
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Old 12-12-2011, 20:38
tigragirl
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As far as I am concerned it has always been time for Craig to go, but he is obviously going to sit tight as long as he can. He has always got on my nerves with his Mr Big Expert act, whereas I am certain he knew nothing about ballroom dancing before he got this job. If he would stick to what he knows, stage dancing, I wouldn't object to him, although I still wouldn't like him.
if you go by that way of thinking the only judge we would have is Len - Bruno is stage and commercial, Craig is Theatre and Alesha......well enough said about her. Even Arlene wouldn't have made the panel if your rationale was adopted,
Each judge brings their own area of expertise ( apart from Alesha, I suppose she says she looks at performance)

I don't think it is time for him to go at all, he is the most consistant judge and always has been. The dancers all want high marks from him which should tell you its his mark they respect the most.

As for 10gate - maybe he thought despite not being perfect Chelsee's dance was more entertaining and more believable that Harry's. Dancing is about telling a story not just moving your hands and feet unless your at a disco
another line of thought of course is strategic marking
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Old 12-12-2011, 21:51
Clarkie66
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I had to read the title twice to check I'd read it correctly. Craig is the best thing about the weekend Strictly and ITT!!
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Old 12-12-2011, 21:53
Buggles1
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Nooooooooooooooo! He's my favourite judge by far.
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Old 12-12-2011, 21:58
BuddyBontheNet
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So where was the explanation for him giving chelsee a 10 with a clearly visibly flawed dance? No pick-up on the wobbly-ness and the ridiculous run to pasha at the end before the final move (when she leaned back with pasha supporting her head) amongst other things
Post 35 on page 2 suggests that it wasn't wobbly or flawed. Another poster remarked on a review by someone who dances, who said that Chelsee had danced it properly & that is just the flamenco style. I'm not a dancer myself, so I cannot comment further than that.
Im kind of amazed right now, because i dont understand it at all

Im sure there are other people who see what i saw, or maybe im not describing it correctly
It is clear from all of your posts that unless someone says you are right, you won't be happy. Sorry, but I can't oblige you.
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Old 12-12-2011, 22:05
CityofRoses
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Im kind of amazed right now, because i dont understand it at all

Im sure there are other people who see what i saw, or maybe im not describing it correctly
The only flaw in Chelsee's routine was when she put her arms out too early, but she had her back to judges at that point so I doubt they could see it.
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Old 13-12-2011, 00:16
Geeny
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All judges great except Alesha no pro talent, I mean that in the nicest way but still shes got chemistry with Bruno so it works
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Old 13-12-2011, 03:30
SCDchick
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It is clear from all of your posts that unless someone says you are right, you won't be happy. Sorry, but I can't oblige you.
All of my posts in the strictly forum? or all of my posts in general on DS? No, ill repeat again, i was trying to, but could not understand why he gave chelsee a 10 for what i saw as a flawed dance, and harry a 9 for what i saw was a wonderful dance, as we all know what craig is like he never usually gives out 10`s unless the dance was techinically perfect, and he will pick a dancer up on the slightest of things.... i wanted to see if others could see what i was seeing. perhaps one of the posters is right maybe he gave chelsee a 10 because he thought there was more excitement and feeling in the dance, or maybe not. whatever im tired of thinking about it now LOL
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Old 13-12-2011, 13:30
Pet Monkey
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Here's another expert view to help our appraisal of Chelsee and Pasha's Paso, originally posted in the Chels&Pash App thread by salsameg:

One other reason for posting is that I was away at a conference in Denmark over the weekend and met a lovely Spanish gentleman (well, after he spoke to me as he watched the Strictly dances over my shoulder as I was catching up on my laptop), he is a dancer/teacher specialising in Paso, Tango and AT.

He was very impressed with Pasha's choreography for the Paso and said it was very authentic, (he asked if it was one of Pasha's speciality dances, when I said I didn't know he said it must be) he also couldn't believe that Chelsee had only been dancing 14 weeks and was amazed that she got so good at the Paso in less than a week.
And for full disclosure, here were the negatives:

he did say the halting steps were necessary as part of the Flamenco Elements. I think they were slightly out of time in one part but Pasha consistently gives Chelsee much more difficult choreography than any of the other celebs and she dances it brilliantly.
It's so interesting how the overall compelling feel of the dance (to a complete non-dancer like me) has roots in the techniques and traditions that an expert can find. Love that interface between in-the-moment and old tradition.


Many thanks to salsameg and Spanish gentleman!
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Old 13-12-2011, 13:35
SCD-Observer
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All of my posts in the strictly forum? or all of my posts in general on DS? No, ill repeat again, i was trying to, but could not understand why he gave chelsee a 10 for what i saw as a flawed dance, and harry a 9 for what i saw was a wonderful dance, as we all know what craig is like he never usually gives out 10`s unless the dance was techinically perfect, and he will pick a dancer up on the slightest of things.... i wanted to see if others could see what i was seeing. perhaps one of the posters is right maybe he gave chelsee a 10 because he thought there was more excitement and feeling in the dance, or maybe not. whatever im tired of thinking about it now LOL
If you want to lose sleep over Craig giving Chelsee a non perfect dance a ten while apparently snubbing Harry's attempt then go on then. Or maybe not. Calmed down now, perhaps?
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Old 13-12-2011, 13:57
David Wright
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I was surprised Craig awarded any of the dances tens, to be honest, as I think they all contained some minor niggles that he would normally be pickey about.

I think what happened is that he overmarked Harrys Charlston a little bit (gave it a 9 when it should probably have been an 8) which meant he then had to start getting his 10's out for dances that would usually be 9's for him.

In any case he is still the most consistent judge in terms of marking and saving the 10's for the Semis and Finals at least meakes them mean something.
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Old 13-12-2011, 14:22
katmobile
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Yes, i am serious with this thread.

Chelsee`s paso doble was not perfect, and craig is meant to be so picky about everything, everyone knows very well what he is like. I saw the flaws in her paso doble and thr wobbly-ness of it. Not saying it was a bad dance it was NOT bad, it was very good, but not perfect and incredible. Remember last year with pamela? Craig did the same sort of thing with kara, and kara was hands down an amazing dancer with a wonderful technique
Craig's undermarking probably helped Kara to victory it may yet do the same for Harry. I too felt the same way about Chelsee's Paso but Craig is the least bonkers of all the judges in his marking - I'd rather get rid of any of the other three judges especially Alesha who has proved to be utterly incapable of using her 10 paddle responsibly this series.
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:04
footygirl
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Seconded Katmobile - Dixon and Len need to go - Ian and Karen please to bring some credibility back to the panel and take it back to dancing.

I accept that would mean the lovely Ian could not do the Wednesday Warm up - but give that to Matthew Cutler and give Camilla Karen's slot on the red button.

Incidentally - did La Hardy mention who she will have with her on the red button this weekend- ideally I would love a series champion with Karen on Saturday, Chris maybe?
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:26
Monaogg
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All of my posts in the strictly forum? or all of my posts in general on DS? No, ill repeat again, i was trying to, but could not understand why he gave chelsee a 10 for what i saw as a flawed dance, and harry a 9 for what i saw was a wonderful dance, as we all know what craig is like he never usually gives out 10`s unless the dance was techinically perfect, and he will pick a dancer up on the slightest of things.... i wanted to see if others could see what i was seeing. perhaps one of the posters is right maybe he gave chelsee a 10 because he thought there was more excitement and feeling in the dance, or maybe not. whatever im tired of thinking about it now LOL
What we as an audience see is usually coloured by out preconceptions. A flawed performance by a favourite will be overlooked or glossed over, where a mistake by a rival will be blown up to epic proportions. Craig on the other had has always struck me a scrupulously fair and objective judge. He does on occasion seem to penalise some faults harshly but often this is due to exasperation at a fault mentioned but not corrected.

On Saturday he commented on Harry's head position which was not tilted sufficiently throughout the dance and docked a mark as a result. So 90 seconds of dance where he did not have his head tilted enough for Craig and Harry only lost 1 mark.

Chelsee may have made a small stumble which some saw but Craig overlooked or did not think an error or bad enough to dock a mark This was an error of a second or two out of 90 seconds of dance.

Perhaps this will help you understand what Craig saw and based his marks on.
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Old 13-12-2011, 16:24
Monaogg
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Just listened to the comments on Harry's VW again & Craig said had Harry's head been slightly more to the right he may not have picked up on the fleckerl fault (so two errors Craig saw )
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Old 13-12-2011, 16:37
perdiedumpling
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What we as an audience see is usually coloured by out preconceptions. A flawed performance by a favourite will be overlooked or glossed over, where a mistake by a rival will be blown up to epic proportions. Craig on the other had has always struck me a scrupulously fair and objective judge. He does on occasion seem to penalise some faults harshly but often this is due to exasperation at a fault mentioned but not corrected.

On Saturday he commented on Harry's head position which was not tilted sufficiently throughout the dance and docked a mark as a result. So 90 seconds of dance where he did not have his head tilted enough for Craig and Harry only lost 1 mark.

Chelsee may have made a small stumble which some saw but Craig overlooked or did not think an error or bad enough to dock a mark This was an error of a second or two out of 90 seconds of dance.

Perhaps this will help you understand what Craig saw and based his marks on.
Wrong dance, Mona. SCDChick was complaining initially about Craig not giving a 10 to Harry's Charleston. We didn't hear Craig's criticisms of that dance, so we don't know why he docked a point. There was a clear moment of hesitation within the Charleston, and I suspect that from where Harry & Aliona were at the time it would have been visible to Craig.

And as far as I'm concerned, there may have been a slight stumble in Chelsee's dance, but that is as nothing to the tiny amount of content of AT in Jason's dance, which was poorly performed. Complain about Harry 'only' getting 39 in comparison to Jason's 40, and I'll grant you that there is an argument there.
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Old 13-12-2011, 16:40
Monaogg
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Wrong dance, Mona. SCDChick was complaining initially about Craig not giving a 10 to Harry's Charleston. We didn't hear Craig's criticisms of that dance, so we don't know why he docked a point. There was a clear moment of hesitation within the Charleston, and I suspect that from where Harry & Aliona were at the time it would have been visible to Craig.

And as far as I'm concerned, there may have been a slight stumble in Chelsee's dance, but that is as nothing to the tiny amount of content of AT in Jason's dance, which was poorly performed. Complain about Harry 'only' getting 39 in comparison to Jason's 40, and I'll grant you that there is an argument there.
Silly me. However in fairness Harry's VW was performed in the same half as Chelsee's Paso, and for me Harry's VW was much better than the Charleston yet scored the same.
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