By that I mean the glitterball is in the gift of women voters who outnumber men voters by 4 to 1? Or is it 9 to 1?

SCD1 was a different world, and Natasha had no genuine rival in the Final - a walkover.

In SCD2 Jill Halfpenny had no credible male rival, so Jill trumped Denise instead.

In SCD3 Zoe Ball led males by a notable margin on marks, but when things came to a head the electorate placed not one man but two (Darren Gough, Colin Jackson) ahead of the woman.

In SCD4 Emma Bunton led on marks, but the voting public preferred not only the high-scoring Ramps but also the low-scoring Matt Dawson ahead of the woman, unceremoniously shutting her out of the Final.

In SCD5 Alesha ran out of opposition after Kelly Brook withdrew. But then came a sudden surge by Gethin (still far far behind on marks to date), with one bound pulling level with Alesha in forum popularity poll. Gethin was dumped out of the semi-final by Matt di Angelo and we shall never know what fate would have greeted Alesha in a Final against Gethin with a female voting army behind him.

In SCD6 Tom Chambers was slightly behind Lisa on marks, and more so behind Rachel. When voters picked up their phones they said Tom.

In SCD7 Chris Hollins was a street behind Ali Bastian on marks, and a street and a half behind Ricky Whittle, but Ali was surprisingly dumped by voters, leaving a Final between two men.

In SCD8 Kara was outstanding as a dancer and as a person, winning by acclamation with gender never a consideration.

Voting history over the years suggests an overwhelmingly female electorate have a tendency to prefer a man. (Which high-scoring man has ever been shut out of the Final in favour of a woman by phone voters?) This is possibly the reason why bookie prices are cynically saying Harry the man is 9 times more likely to beat Chelsee the woman, despite DS forum poll saying Chelsee is 60-40 more likely to win.

DS forum poll is hinting there is no gender bias this year.

Why?

Nice attempt.

People are EXPECTING Harry "the underwear posing, ovaries-massaging, gay luring" Judd to win the final.

What that poll asks was which celeb DS forumites WANT to win (heart), not who WILL win (head).

I want Chelsee to win but I think that Harry will win. He is just too popular.

Generally speking, and not in ref to any DS poll, I think Jill won on merit, and I don't think Denise also being female meant that the rivalry was less of one just becuase she wasn't male. A rival is rival, gender is irrelivent.

With Natasha, that was a guinea pig year so I wold agree no real competiton between the contestants (in the same way it is today).

I liked Colin Jackson because he was good so I don't find it weird that he got votes. And Darren seemed to get the votes because of the whole 'journey' aspect as well as that of his relationship with Lilia, so, I'm not suprised there either. I don't know why Zoe got less votes than Darren, I suppose his popualrity came before hers because he was funny and a tryer. I don't know if he got votes on looks (I personally don't think he was attractive then and still don't).

I think Ramps was a better dancer than Emma so I think he was a worthy winner ahead of her. However I think she should have at least come second so I am baffled about that ordering. With Matt I think he was liked for more or less the same reason that Darren was? He was likeable, improved after not being good at first and was somewhat funny-ish (I suppose). I don't think he was voted on for his looks?

I actually think Matt Di Angelo should have won ahead of Alesha, so would have prefered a male winner that year. And (unlike lots of people) I don't think Gethin was anywhere near good enough be even close to winning! For me he was between quite good to good and I just didn't understand the idea that he was a GOOD dancer like the sentiment seemed to be at the time. Alesha would have beena worthy runner up for me if Matt had won.

Tom Chambers should have come third for me that year. I loved one of his Ballroom dances but I wasn't fond of his Latin much or his constant gurning. Rachel was a GOOD dancing in my eyes and would have prefered her to win. I'm not surised that Lisa didn't win because neither she nor Brendan were that popular (to my memory after liftgate the year before with Kelly). Maybe Tom's personaity (and Camillas lovely showdance) won the day for him.

I don't know how Chris won, at all! Both Ali and Ricky were, as you say, streets ahead and I would not have complained if Ricky had won. It just seemed that he didn't win because people thought Ola and Chris's partnership was cute and I suppose the Charleston also helped them out with the votes a great deal as well.

Totally agree about your point on Kara.

So in all, there are only two years where men have won that I (personally) think (on dance merit) there should have been a female winner instead. But the others years that men won, I have no complaints about. And while some of the men over the years have been goodlooking, I have NEVER voted for a man based soley on his looks. I don't think I've ever even fancied any male celebs (or male pros) in fact, have always preferd the woman in that aspect (celeb or Pro). I wanted Colin, Matt and Ricky to win because they were better dancers, period. And I've wanted past female celebs to win (that didn't) on the same basis too.

If Harry wins I suspect it will be on merit, not just because lovers of men are (apprently) meant to be the biggest voters for these types of shows.I don't want to insult all female voters or lovers of males that they only vote on shallow terms because that isn't entirely true. I'm sure coincidence (when it comes to gender) plays a part in who wins each year on Strictly.

Very many well made points.

And I, too, hope the best dancer wins!

Depends on the final dance,Erin thought comedy would work but it didnt

The fallacy just won't go away.

As a woman, I find this all a tad insulting .....

My favourite is Harry

- not because he is in Mcfly....purleeze I'm 39 for crying out loud.

- Not because he is good looking (he's a bit baby faced for my liking)

- not because I have a problem with a woman winning (I really wanted Zoe to win)

I want Harry to win because I prefer his dances to Chelsea's..... pure and simple!

My Mum, my Dad, my husband and my six year old son also want Harry to win......... (although my son is also called Harry and I suspect that might be the real reason for him )

Same here, Im straight male so dont fancy Harry, and I cant stand McFly, but I want him to win because I perfer his dances to that of Jason (who annoys me), and chelsee (whos been my second favourite since week 1).

There are always exceptions to the rule (yours being the example). But I suspect people who fall into those 'ovaries massaging and gays luring' group would probably be too sheepish to admit it here in the forum. People want to appear special and like an individual, not being described as a predictable 'group' or 'cliche'.

Also, such provocative post by the OP (or by me for that matter) will most likely only elicit a response from people who don't fall into that certain categories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeny
Depends on the final dance,Erin thought comedy would work but it didnt.


This just seems to be the mistake no-one can forget about.

The girls seem to only do well when they're not competitive (Z.Ball Logan) aren't pin ups (Rachel/Lisa), and have a great & genuine link with the partner that doesn't seem predatory (Kara/Alesha/Jill). That's how I see it probably wrong :P

The point made was, had the Strictly electorate been 80% male then Emma Bunton and Ali Bastian would have made the Final at least. Had voters been 80% male then the entire piece would have been rewritten to examine an opposite bias.

Please be assured no insult is intended . Gender bias if any would never be universal. Murder trial juries are carefully screened to ensure gender balance and minimise bias if any. The Strictly jury is around 10-2 in favour of women, some say 11-1.

Women only win if they compete against men,
not compete against women voters in the audience?

and I am a woman who would prefer Chelsee to win

I acknowledge Harry dances very well but Chelsee for me has more of an emotional connection with the dance.

I loved Alesha too for the same reasons as Chelsee , didn't want Rachel to win as I felt NO connection from her . loved Kara as I found her dancing breath taking didn't want Lisa to win after the perceived unfairness of the results her bottom 2 outings once my preffered dancer was ot couldn't care less in that series who won

I dont think you can put ALL women in the same catagory , nothing wrong with Harry's looks so I should in theory fancy him and vote with my ovaries but I dont. He is just another young man for me with a fit body and a pleasant face

I want Jason to win - but Harry will storm it as there is nothing not to like about him....and...middle aged Cougars do the voting in the main.

I suspect that the premise is largely correct.

Being male, history was I wanted Lilia to win, then Matt D'Angelo, Rachel, Ola, Matt & Aliona, so bit of bias there.

If it was just between Harry and Chelsee I'd be choosing Chelsee, but Aliona and Harry together would be my choice this year, although as with Alesha, Ricky, and Kara, I'd still be happy with the other outcome.

I wanted Mark to win in series 4 because I preferred his dancing to Emma's, and the AT swayed it.

I wanted Alesha to win in series 5 because she was outstanding. I do fancy Gethin, but I didn't feel any real passion from much of his dancing. Matt is cute, but Alesha was a better dancer.

Tom won series 6 because he had a better showdance. Up until then, Rachel was my favourite, but Camilla's choreography in that last dance won that series.

I wanted Chris to win in series 7 because of his partnership with Ola - I definitely did not fancy him! Ricky's nice to look at, but I thought his partnership with Natalie was cold.

I liked Matt in series 8 because he came across as a really nice guy and I loved his partnership with Aliona. I don't fancy him. I also thought Kara was an excellent dancer and deserved the win. Artem is hot, but that didn't influence whether or not I liked the partnership.

I want Harry to win this year because for me he is the best dancer, and the only one whose performances have excited me and made me want to rewatch. Yes, I'm from the generation who grew up with McFly etc in the charts, yes, Harry was the member of that band I always fancied, but that's not the only criteria by which I judge.

I'm a straight, young woman, and actually I do find it quite insulting that the implication is that the majority of women vote superficially with no thought to any other factor...

Artem the consort of Kara lifted the glitterball last year, and this month became Botafogo World Champion beating Pasha, Brendan, Aliona and everyone else.

Despite that Pasha is joint leader with Artem in the Favourite Professional poll.

Puzzle solved: the gender bias is alive and well -- a vote for Chelsee is also a vote for Pasha (quickly diving below the parapet ).

You have been waiting to solve your own puzzle haven't you?

I admit I fancy Harry, he's just my type. But I can't choose between him or Chelsee for my winner; I have a real soft spot for Chelsee as she makes me laugh, seems very sweet and is to my untrained eye a great dancer. Harry is attractive to me, but if he wasn't a good dancer I wouldn't want him to win.

In my time I've supported (I generally have two or three favourites a series; I used to be an intermittent watcher tough)
Colin Jackson
Spoony
Louisa Lytton
Mark Ramprakash
Gabby Logan
Kelly Brook
Gethin Jones
Tom Chambers
Jodie Kidd
Jade Johnson
Ali Bastian
Jimi Mistry
Matt Baker
Chelsee Healey
Harry Judd
Holly Valance

8 : 8

Tabitha, the Equal Opportunity Commission is proud of you .

Sort of agree. So would Ali be in the competitive camp, Emma in the pin-up group and which group would Chelsee be?


I think Matt DA became less popular in the final as Gethin fans felt that he had deprived Gethin of a place in the final.
His showdance was also disappointing IMO compared with Alesha's and I still can't forget that horrible vest he wore which did no favours for his slight physique.

Didn't Ricky's popularity suffer after his arrest for allegedly driving into a photographer a few weeks before the final?


Notice that in all three finals when there were 2 male +1 female finalists, the female finalist (Zoe, Emma and Ali) went out first.
Which doesn't bode well for Chelsee .....

Heh, I didn't mean to. I actually thought I favoured the women more! It's the frocks that get me usually; I'm a sucker for the sparklies.

I would say Ali was the lyrical beauty, not over competitive. Emma came in as the established Spice Girl in the multimillionairess class, then proceeded to sweep the board after minimal hours practice (busy with her charity commitments), so she would have been seen as over-competitive, worse, against women in the audience.

The ingenuity of Chelsee's alliance with Pasha lies in that engergetic Pasha takes the heat for Chelsee as the super-competitive one but ok for a man. In the mean time Chelsee herself is not threatening like Mona Lisa and she does not wear Ola dresses, her one wardrobe malfunction being an accident every woman could identify with.

Back to the theme of broadening gender appeal, Zoe had Ian but lost, Emma had Darren but lost, Ali had Brian but lost. Whereas these 3 pros were popular they were not the most popular male pro of their time, like Alesha's partner Matthew Cutler was -- and Chelsee's Pasha apparently is today.

Alesha on marks was a whole dance (30 marks) ahead of the field going into the Final. She, Kara, and Jill were special standout candidates, the exceptions who proved the rule.