DS Forums

 
 

It's a woman's world


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14-12-2011, 17:47
soulmate61
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,073
Yes but none of that rationale has anything to do with him being a bloke and it being women voting.
If Tom had been a woman he would not have garnered the same support from an overwhelmingly female electorate. This cannot be proved as Tom is not planning a sex change.

Two women were in the Final offering a choice to fans of womanhood. Tom was the sole manhood on offer, cornering the market.
soulmate61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 14-12-2011, 17:54
pasodabble
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Londontown
Posts: 4,769
Gethin went out in week 11 so it was only Alesha and Matt DA in the week 12 final.
I know that - the point being made was about the last 3 standing, not who made it to the final show.

That's not the point - the final 3 in that series were 2 males and 1 female, and the female was not eliminated before the 2 males. Whether or not all 3 were in the final isn't really relevant.
Quite!

Tom also was in the unfortunate position of having to be put through because there was no way he could be saved by the public vote.
Surely that then demonstrates perfectly that both female contestants had received enough public votes to marry with the way the judges' placed them on the leader board. It's difficult to say conclusively what might have happened that year without that fiasco.
Early on in the final, the BBC/Tess announced that Tom had received the most votes in the semifinal.
pasodabble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 17:59
CaroUK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,168
Not necessarily the case at all, she could have come second to bottom in the public votes. Without the public voting figures being released it's impossible to say with any certainty.
The judges saved her because they wished to, they're as entitled to do that as the public was to vote for her or for any other candidate.
Joe Public not agreeing that she was as good a dancer as the judges doesn't make them right and the judges wrong or vice versa.
Lisa was (in many peoples eyes unjustifiably) high on the leaderboard every week when she was in the bottom two. For her to have dropped below the lower and indeed lowest placed by the judges dancer(s) when she had a high judges placing would indicate that she was probably scoring the lowest public vote each week. No one appears tin the bottom two that often unless they are really unpopular with the public, and she never seemed to get the rebound bounce vote that a bottom 2 dancer usually gets the next week - she was bottom week after week after week.

Yes but none of that rationale has anything to do with him being a bloke and it being women voting.
Well by all that was fair - it should have been Tom Austin and Rachel in the final - and the male vote would have split allowing a Rachel win.....

As it was, the judges manipulating Lisa into the final over Tom and Austin probably cost Rachel the win....
CaroUK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 18:00
leftfeet2
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 511
In response to your initail post as a bloke i think your right i rarley vote the few times I have were in support of John seargent Kate Garroway and Anitia probably beacues I like the entertainment more than the dance- I have never voted in a final and wont be this Saturday i tend to lost some interest once the entertainment element has been elininated - I have to watch to keep OH happy but am mildly curious in seeing if Blackpool adds to the final
leftfeet2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 18:00
soulmate61
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,073
Tom's was a very stormy year, the stormiest in Strictly history, with John Sergeant walking away in a nationwide press conference, with this forum torn into two like a Spanish Civil War. Arlene sowed the seeds of her dismissal.

It was a very political year with entrenched positions and hard loyalties.
soulmate61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 18:16
pasodabble
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Londontown
Posts: 4,769
she was bottom week after week after week.
I agree Lisa was unpopular, but she was never in the bottom 2 on consecutive weeks. She was in the bottom 2 in week 1, then was kept out by duffers and high scores until the final 7 when she was there with Cherie. Her next trip there was in the final 4 with Austin (there was no final 6, of course)

Well by all that was fair - it should have been Tom Austin and Rachel in the final - and the male vote would have split allowing a Rachel win.....
I disagree - Rachel was never going to win over Austin or Tom. She ended up in the bottom 2 in the final 8 with Heather. Some thought that this was because her fans had become complacent as she was so good, but she was there again in the final 5 with Christine - not the pattern of a future winner.
pasodabble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 18:21
Jan2555*GG*
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,922
In response to your initail post as a bloke i think your right i rarley vote the few times I have were in support of John seargent Kate Garroway and Anitia probably beacues I like the entertainment more than the dance- I have never voted in a final and wont be this Saturday i tend to lost some interest once the entertainment element has been elininated - I have to watch to keep OH happy but am mildly curious in seeing if Blackpool adds to the final
Thats interesting I didnt have you down as a man....dont read anything into that ....just interesting to know.

Tom's was a very stormy year, the stormiest in Strictly history, with John Sergeant walking away in a nationwide press conference, with this forum torn into two like a Spanish Civil War. Arlene sowed the seeds of her dismissal.

It was a very political year with entrenched positions and hard loyalties.
Yes it was a very difficult year with a lot of controversy.....I would absolutely love to know who would have gone home under a rules now Lisa or Austen.
Jan2555*GG* is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 18:31
leftfeet2
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 511
Thats interesting I didnt have you down as a man....dont read anything into that ....just interesting to know.

Yes it was a very difficult year with a lot of controversy.....I would absolutely love to know who would have gone home under a rules now Lisa or Austen.
BIB
i thought my name might be a bit of a clue

I am not reading anything into it I am going to explore my femanine side
leftfeet2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 18:31
TerryM22
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,987
By that I mean the glitterball is in the gift of women voters who outnumber men voters by 4 to 1? Or is it 9 to 1?

SCD1 was a different world, and Natasha had no genuine rival in the Final - a walkover.

In SCD2 Jill Halfpenny had no credible male rival, so Jill trumped Denise instead.

In SCD3 Zoe Ball led males by a notable margin on marks, but when things came to a head the electorate placed not one man but two (Darren Gough, Colin Jackson) ahead of the woman.

In SCD4 Emma Bunton led on marks, but the voting public preferred not only the high-scoring Ramps but also the low-scoring Matt Dawson ahead of the woman, unceremoniously shutting her out of the Final.

In SCD5 Alesha ran out of opposition after Kelly Brook withdrew. But then came a sudden surge by Gethin (still far far behind on marks to date), with one bound pulling level with Alesha in forum popularity poll. Gethin was dumped out of the semi-final by Matt di Angelo and we shall never know what fate would have greeted Alesha in a Final against Gethin with a female voting army behind him.

In SCD6 Tom Chambers was slightly behind Lisa on marks, and more so behind Rachel. When voters picked up their phones they said Tom.

In SCD7 Chris Hollins was a street behind Ali Bastian on marks, and a street and a half behind Ricky Whittle, but Ali was surprisingly dumped by voters, leaving a Final between two men.

In SCD8 Kara was outstanding as a dancer and as a person, winning by acclamation with gender never a consideration.

Voting history over the years suggests an overwhelmingly female electorate have a tendency to prefer a man. (Which high-scoring man has ever been shut out of the Final in favour of a woman by phone voters?) This is possibly the reason why bookie prices are cynically saying Harry the man is 9 times more likely to beat Chelsee the woman, despite DS forum poll saying Chelsee is 60-40 more likely to win.

DS forum poll is hinting there is no gender bias this year.

Why?


The majority of the girls will vote for Harry and Harry will win, its that simple.
TerryM22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 18:57
frally
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 954
That's not the point - the final 3 in that series were 2 males and 1 female, and the female was not eliminated before the 2 males. Whether or not all 3 were in the final isn't really relevant.
In the penultimate show, Gethin faced Matt DA in the dance-off and was voted off by the judges, not the public.

This is very different from a three person final where only the public vote counts in deciding who goes out first.
frally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 19:20
pasodabble
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Londontown
Posts: 4,769
In the penultimate show, Gethin faced Matt DA in the dance-off and was voted off by the judges, not the public.

This is very different from a three person final where only the public vote counts in deciding who goes out first.
There has only ever been one 3 person final on Strictly with 2 men and one woman - the series 3 final. And in that final, the judges' leaderboard was combined with the public votes.
pasodabble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 19:23
Monkseal
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,654
I agree Lisa was unpopular, but she was never in the bottom 2 on consecutive weeks. She was in the bottom 2 in week 1, then was kept out by duffers and high scores until the final 7 when she was there with Cherie. Her next trip there was in the final 4 with Austin (there was no final 6, of course).
She was bottom 2 in the top 6 with Jodie, the week after she took out Cherie.

People also seem to be misremembering that she did full leaderboard plunges to get into the bottom 2 a la Bunto. She didn't. Two of the three times she was in the dance-off, she was bottom 2 in the judges scores. The other time she was third from bottom. Rachel's dives were far more dramatic.
Monkseal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 19:26
Cadiva
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 13,940
Early on in the final, the BBC/Tess announced that Tom had received the most votes in the semifinal.
Because they had to for exactly the reason I mentioned earlier - it wouldn't have mattered how many members of the public wasted their money voting for him because the judges' tie between Lisa and Rachel meant he couldn't be "saved".
That still doesn't give any indication of where Lisa and Rachel were placed on the public voting.

I agree Lisa was unpopular, but she was never in the bottom 2 on consecutive weeks. She was in the bottom 2 in week 1, then was kept out by duffers and high scores until the final 7 when she was there with Cherie. Her next trip there was in the final 4 with Austin (there was no final 6, of course)

I disagree - Rachel was never going to win over Austin or Tom. She ended up in the bottom 2 in the final 8 with Heather. Some thought that this was because her fans had become complacent as she was so good, but she was there again in the final 5 with Christine - not the pattern of a future winner.
I've found you can't actually use a rational or factual point of view with people who have a firm idea entrenched in their heads (directed at no-one in particular but plenty of SCD posters in general). They have decided X Y or Z and therefore it must be the truth.
Cadiva is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 19:36
blackberry000
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 486
This is a very simplistic way of viewing the voting habits of SCD viewers. You have either forgotten some rather crucial points regarding each series, or have just tailored your arguments to fit your theory.

You have forgotten that people support those contestants that they can relate to. Things like starting as a poor dancer, or having a likeable/relatable personality all are vote winners.

SCD1 was a different world, and Natasha had no genuine rival in the Final - a walkover.
Don't remember much about this series and the only male contestant i remember from SCD1 is Chris Parker.

In SCD2 Jill Halfpenny had no credible male rival, so Jill trumped Denise instead.
Jill Halfpenny was both an incredibly good dancer, arguably one of the best SCD has seen, and very likeable. She had a great chemistry with her partner Darren Bennett and performed each dance. The only winner who can compete with her is Kara.

In SCD3 Zoe Ball led males by a notable margin on marks, but when things came to a head the electorate placed not one man but two (Darren Gough, Colin Jackson) ahead of the woman.
It's not odd to see the most improved dancer win ahead of the best dancer, because majority of poeple (who have no dance experience themselves) want to think that it is possible to start where Darren started and still become good dancers. Add to that Darren's relationship with Lilia, and Lilia's hotness and you get a winner. Male viewers would've wanted to vote for him, and not just because of Lilia.

n SCD4 Emma Bunton led on marks, but the voting public preferred not only the high-scoring Ramps but also the low-scoring Matt Dawson ahead of the woman, unceremoniously shutting her out of the Final.
Again Mark Ramps had a very likeable and relatable personality. He had a good story to go with his time in the competition. He had very good dances, namely the salsa and the AT which people still talk about. Can you name 1 dance that Emma Bunton did that people still talk about as much? She came to the competition amid high expectations and disappointed. Yes she scored high and was good, but someone of her calibre was expected to dance a lot better than she did. You don't get credit for coming to the competition with previous dancing or performance experience, you get credit for what you achieve in the course of the competition.

In SCD5 Alesha ran out of opposition after Kelly Brook withdrew. But then came a sudden surge by Gethin (still far far behind on marks to date), with one bound pulling level with Alesha in forum popularity poll. Gethin was dumped out of the semi-final by Matt di Angelo and we shall never know what fate would have greeted Alesha in a Final against Gethin with a female voting army behind him.
A worthy female winner who also is incredibly hot and very talented won this year... I don't know why you're trying to use it as a proof of your theory?!

In SCD6 Tom Chambers was slightly behind Lisa on marks, and more so behind Rachel. When voters picked up their phones they said Tom.
Lisa was not liked because she was hyped up by the judges for no apparent reason.

Rachel was a very good dancer but did not have an interesting personality. I was rooting for her to win, but even I know it was a lost cause because she just wasn't engaging enough during her dancers. And Tom was a worthy winner. Between the contestants he was a more well rounded dancer in terms of technique and performance.

In SCD7 Chris Hollins was a street behind Ali Bastian on marks, and a street and a half behind Ricky Whittle, but Ali was surprisingly dumped by voters, leaving a Final between two men.
Chris Hollins didn't just win against a female contestant, he also won against a very very talented and good looking male contestant. How do you explain that one?
Ali Bastiani was again another female who had all the goods (good figure, previous dance experience) and hence scored relatively high, but she again disappointed. Expect her VW which was really the only dace close to her skill set as a performer, non of her other dancers were memorable. Why should she have won? Just because she has good arm placement? You know dancing isn't all technique!

In SCD8 Kara was outstanding as a dancer and as a person, winning by acclamation with gender never a consideration.
Again, another beautiful female dancer won the competition.

Voting history over the years suggests an overwhelmingly female electorate have a tendency to prefer a man. (Which high-scoring man has ever been shut out of the Final in favour of a woman by phone voters?) This is possibly the reason why bookie prices are cynically saying Harry the man is 9 times more likely to beat Chelsee the woman, despite DS forum poll saying Chelsee is 60-40 more likely to win.

DS forum poll is hinting there is no gender bias this year.

Why?
If either Harry or Jason win this competition it will be on the merit of their dancing. Chelsee has never been a clear front runner in this competition, not even from the judges' point of view. And if you want to know why there is not "gender bias" this year in the forum, well it's because there has never been a gender bias before. As I said above you've just picked the bits of information that proved your theory. Chelsee is another contestant who has a likeable and relatable personality as well as being a good dancer.
blackberry000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 19:38
soulmate61
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,073
There has only ever been one 3 person final on Strictly with 2 men and one woman - the series 3 final. And in that final, the judges' leaderboard was combined with the public votes.
In SCD6 Tom, Rachel, and Lisa danced on Final night. A phone vote was then taken and marks rankings were combined with phone vote rankings. Lisa was eliminated as Tom and Rachel then proceeded to the ultimate Final where only phone votes mattered. To add to ambiguities, Lisa having been eliminated was invited to perform a showdance as exhibition only.

In SCD3 Zoe, Colin, and Darren Gough went into the single-session Final. The rules for that year go too far back for my memory, others might like to clarify. It seems likely that Strictly will soon become a specialist subject on Mastermind, whereon some of our posters can no doubt score 20 out of 20 with no passes..
soulmate61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 19:51
Cadiva
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 13,940
As it was, the judges manipulating Lisa into the final over Tom and Austin probably cost Rachel the win....
Rachel was never going to win. She simply did not connect with the viewing public. The official BBC boards during that year were full of posts wondering how on earth people could enjoy watching her dance. She was as polarising a contestant as Lisa Snowden was.

In SCD3 Zoe, Colin, and Darren Gough went into the single-session Final. The rules for that year go too far back for my memory, others might like to clarify. It seems likely that Strictly will soon become a specialist subject on Mastermind, whereon some of our posters can no doubt score 20 out of 20 with no passes..
Zoe, Colin and Darren went into a series finale, Zoe was eliminated after the first two dances. She was also allowed to dance her showdance. Colin and Darren then went on and danced their showdances, the viewing public then overwhelmingly voted for Darren as the winner.
Cadiva is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 19:53
frally
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 954
There has only ever been one 3 person final on Strictly with 2 men and one woman - the series 3 final. And in that final, the judges' leaderboard was combined with the public votes.
Zoe and Ian topped the judges' leaderboard but were the first couple out so it could only have been based on public votes alone.
frally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 20:13
soulmate61
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,073
Zoe and Ian topped the judges' leaderboard but were the first couple out so it could only have been based on public votes alone.
Those who wanted to vote male had their votes split between Colin and Darren. Even after that split both men out-polled Zoe the only woman and highest scorer of SCD3.
That was the mirror-image of SCD6, where Tom the lowest scorer outpolled two woman rivals.
soulmate61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 20:15
SCD-Observer
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,242
Zoe and Ian topped the judges' leaderboard but were the first couple out so it could only have been based on public votes alone.
Not if Darren scored the highest in the public vote, and Zoe the lowest. In this case of a tie, the public votes win out. That was the rule. Not sure if this still applies now.
SCD-Observer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 20:17
Cadiva
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 13,940
Those who wanted to vote male had their votes split between Colin and Darren. Even after that split both men out-polled Zoe the only woman.
You're really reaching to try and justify your argument here to be honest. Zoe lost because her combined vote was lower than either Colin or Darren.
Darren won because more people voted for him than Colin. Something in the region of around three million of the around five million phone calls made in the final vote were for Darren (according to Darren's autobiography). You're discounting very much the male vote for Darren because he was a very successful cricketer and a "lad's lad".

Zoe and Ian topped the judges' leaderboard but were the first couple out so it could only have been based on public votes alone.
Not if Darren scored the highest in the public vote, and Zoe the lowest. In this case of a tie, the public votes win out. That was the rule. Not sure if this still applies now.
The public vote still takes precedence over the judges vote yes. Series Three voting can be found here. Colin's Quickstep score should read 39 not 29 on the table.
Darren scored highest with the public, Zoe the least and it was a combination of both together which saw Zoe leave first.
Cadiva is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 22:51
Sherlock_Holmes
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,283
Rachel was never going to win. She simply did not connect with the viewing public. The official BBC boards during that year were full of posts wondering how on earth people could enjoy watching her dance. She was as polarising a contestant as Lisa Snowden was.
Nonsense, without votegate (remember this was caused by Len underscoring her AS if I recall correctly, scoring it lower then Craig did!) she would have walked the final against Lisa.

It is truly a shame that Tom fans use the showdance as excuse for his win (when he should just be lucky to be there in the final in the first place!).
Sherlock_Holmes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 23:59
soulmate61
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,073
It is truly a shame that Tom fans use the showdance as excuse for his win (when he should just be lucky to be there in the final in the first place!).
Tom's salvation came like a kind of poetic justice.

The year before Gethin was unceremoniously bundled out of the semifinal because in the quarterfinal Matt di Angelo was voted safe by brute force after two meltdowns.

Time passed and a year later Tom was saved by, yes ruthless, oppportunistic brute force exploiting a legal loophole which put BBC over a barrel. My dear friend Footygirl had been painfully disappointed along with Gethin, then the wheel turned and joy came to her and Tom in recompense.

The technicolour 3-3-1-gate climax revived a season then dying on its legs from public apathy. The ways of the Lord are past human understanding......
soulmate61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2011, 00:09
SCD-Observer
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,242
Tom's salvation came like a kind of poetic justice.

The year before Gethin was unceremoniously bundled out of the semifinal because in the quarterfinal Matt di Angelo was voted safe by brute force after two meltdowns.

Time passed and a year later Tom was saved by, yes ruthless, oppportunistic brute force exploiting a legal loophole which put BBC over a barrel. My dear friend Footygirl had been painfully disappointed along with Gethin, then the wheel turned and joy came to her and Tom in recompense.

The technicolour 3-3-1-gate climax revived a season then dying on its legs from public apathy. The ways of the Lord are past human understanding......
Whoa! Dramatic much, no?
SCD-Observer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2011, 00:42
Cadiva
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 13,940
Nonsense, without votegate (remember this was caused by Len underscoring her AS if I recall correctly, scoring it lower then Craig did!) she would have walked the final against Lisa.

It is truly a shame that Tom fans use the showdance as excuse for his win (when he should just be lucky to be there in the final in the first place!).
I disagree. She'd struggled at times throughout the competition with the viewers' vote, as had Lisa in her turn, and Tom had consistently had more public support, as had Austin, it so votegate just muddied the waters. I also disagree that Len deliberately underscored her, but then I wasn't a Rachel supporter.

It's a real shame as it has overshadowed that whole series really. As an aside, I wasn't then, and aren't now, a Tom fan. I didn't have a favourite that year. I didn't really care which one of the final four won.
Cadiva is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2011, 01:10
Fudd
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 117,021
Chelsee will win. For Strictly, this forum is much more in tune with the voting public than with other reality shows; I've never known a forum favourite going into a final and losing TBH.

Harry has his fans but many people blast him as dull; same with Jason. Chelsee's criticisms have never matched the same lethal (in Strictly terms 'dull' is only second in lethalness to 'judges favourite') level as Harry and Jason's criticisms have.
Fudd is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:23.