Very well put, I watched the special tonight despite holding out little hope for it and was very disappointed. Even with rock bottom expectations I found it poor.

I thought there were too many special effects and not enough character interaction, too many visuals and not enough meat really.

I'm really struggling with justifying watching any more of the show.

Now the fanbois out there are ready to roast me but before you do that - I've watched the show for years, Tom Baker on wards and read so many Terence Dicks books its untrue. I just don't like where Moffat is taking the show at the moment.

And I love Sherlock btw, the Moff is a man with supreme talent, it's just that he has decided to take DW in a direction that doesn't include me. My 4 year old nephew is fanatical and demands all the merchandise so perhaps Moffat is catering for that age group a little more than RTD did.

Bang goes the thread.

I really don't know what could be a more arrogant statement than that!


Only one fact has been stated on this thread - the fact that everything that has been said is nothing more than opinion. And last I checked, it was perfectly legal to have different opinions. And it was also generally good manners to respect that others have different opinions, and to disagree politely if you wish to disagree at all. Politeness seems in short supply on this thread tonight! And this issue has been debated so many times anyway that there really doesn't seem to me to be much point in rehashing it...

I think you'll actually find that most people here don't have a problem with people expressing a personal opinion, even if it's a negative opinion of the show.

It's only when people try to claim that their personal opinion is somehow a factually accurate objective truth and anyone who disagrees is immature/stupid/inexperienced/etc that people have a tendancy to disagree.

If you don't like it, fine. It's not to your tastes and there's nothing saying it has to be. Just so long as you understand that it is to other peoples' tastes and that's not because they're all too stupid to appreciate what good storytelling really is!

100% agree with you

Thank god your user name is garbage

I'm not really sure how people can think the SM era is "kiddier" than the RTD one.

I'd say the tone of the last series was the most adult of any since the shows return. It's far less cringeworthy now..mainly due to the humour being far better written and less "Bobby Davro". RTD's comedy writing was dire IMO.

I'll admit there were a couple of cringeworthy lines/acting moments in tonights show...but not as much as your average RTD episode.

I thought SM's 1st series was patchy..but loved his second (minus the pirate episode).

...having said that...SM still deserves a good kicking for the fat arsed dalek design. I really don't want to see that design return unless it's to kill them off/be upgraded.

It's been on a downward trajectory since it came back in 2005, which is pretty common in British TV, series rarely get better as they go along.

You live up to your namesake.

I havent seen the Christmas Beeb specials yet (all taped, had a lovely lovely day) But ready for my Who fix and DOwnton and Ab Fab and grufalo.

But seeing this is awfuly...RTD era...more childish??? puhlease....Sure there were some solid storylines but damn...tell me the difference between SJA and DW back then!

The Moff has brought back what i loved rewatching the classics....it is tense, scary and Matt Smith is MY doctor

IMO (of course) Series 5 >>>>>>>>>RTD

And Series 6 was my all time fave series

Cannot wait to see this special...avoiding spoilers

You know what really annoys me (hi to all btw first post and all big dr who fan) all this annoying moaning about steven moffit and matt smith ... You know what seriously grow up!! With each doctor comes big changes sometimes not so big and sometimes huge changes but you know what every doctor to date has been fantastic none quite as much as matt smith and you know what also my dad who has watched this series since it first started watched every episode has even said the matt smtih era is the best he has ever seen, because not only is matt smith an incredibly gifted actor, (the whole old man in a young mans body ) steven moffit is a great writer who manages to challenge the viewer into trying to figure stuff out for yourself! Unlike rtd who handed it out on plate in the first few minutes yes RTD. Was good yes so was tennet but times change the doctor changes its time to move on and I bet the same people who are moaning here will do the same thing when smith leaves see I liked tennent bt it took me untill series 3/4 to even get used to him matt smith on the other hand his intro at the end of the end of time was it for me he was the doctor no question about it! The point im trying to make is appriciate what you've got cause one day after all your moaning it could be someone really terrible then what will you say oh I wish we had matt back!! So just enjoy it for what it is great tv! On a side not I actually missed the xmas special as I was with family and back at work tnite won't be ablw to watch it till next week now pfft! Have a good day now peace out

As much as I love Moffat, I would love to see more Smith outside of Moff's reign. Death of the Doctor was a fine example of what can happen outside of Moffat's admittedly fairytale themes. I"'m not saying he sticks to that for every episode ( I LOVE series 5 and 6 ), but I would just like to see Smith jmp in to another style set of storywriting.

Exactly how I feel too.

I said in another topic that I love Matt Smiths Doctor and much prefer him to Tennant but to me there's just something missing from a lot of Moffats episodes that just leave me a bit underwhelmed at the end of each episode.

RTD did some dodgy eps but overall it was great family fun that anyone could dip in and enjoy. I'm not against long story arcs, as somebody who watches every episode you kind of feel rewarded but I know family members who would sit and watch Dr Who every Saturday under RTD/Tennant/Ecclestone but have barely watched any of Smiths episodes and there must be a reason for that?

You will notice that they're all low post count users who haven't yet worked out how to post nicely on the Internet, are children, or, far more commonly, have issues (in general or) with a post and simply have no points of substance to make in response, so resort to the "your post has no merit" tactic!

IMO, the best two series since the revival have been four and six...this is because both had an amazing story arc. Series four had the planets being stolen, the doctor/donna and the "she is returning" and series six obviously had the doctor's death, the mystery around river/melody and Kovarian.

Having said that, I can understand why people would prefer either era. I just happen to love both and feel that maybe the RTD era had more magic and heart.

I think it's pointless attacking each other over this, we're all different and look for different things in what we watch.

To be honest I am happy the show is on the box - I do not want to go through those horrible years again when it was off the air.

I appreciate the show, any one can nick pick and complain and blah blah - but what would you rather?

One of the most important comments here. We would all still miss the show if it was pulled.

Right, this is getting beyond a joke!
2 years on and people are still moaning and complaining that the show as gone downhill.
For the love of God will you all shut up and realise that the problem isn't that the show has dropped in quality, it's that it has changed. Many people seem incapable of coping with this change in style and as a result they now dislike the show. Okay, that in itself is fine; either stop watching or put up with it, but PLEASE! Stop moaning about it. They style is never going to change back to what it was when RTD wrote the episodes, so there is no point moaning.
Equally, the show is not going to be cancelled. It's the most bought iTunes show in the world for goodness sake!

Look at the episode threads - loads of pages of build up and speculation with folks building themselves up into an orgy of expectation. - then there is hardly any posts when the show is actually being broadcasting and then the usual trend now days of criticising after the show is over.

I lesson with Dr Who - never build your hopes too high - just wait for the episode and enjoy it when it on.

People on here over hype episodes way too much with way too much expectation. They need to learn to back off.

Oh, that's not fair. How am I meant to pick your excuse for an argument apart when it's just an insubstantial froth of embarrassing language and pomposity about the kids' show we all like to watch?

It's going to be like walking into cobwebs. Ah well:

a kiddy who has an orgasm - that's your metaphor of choice?

silly little Matt the prat - that would get you into trouble in nursery school. And your parents would be embarrassed about how weak it was.

And being an adult - you shouldn't feel the need to state 'I am an adult'?

I am able to appreciate full emotional drama on many levels - just not this drama on any level.

flat, one dimentional teenage gung-ho for little boys and sweet stuff for little girls. - nice gender stereotyping, by the way.

Today's Dr Who is great for vacuous teens with no understanding of life. - not like the gritty realism of {Insert any Classic-era Who story here}

Enjoy it until you grow out of it. - Oh, I will. And based on current projections, that will be never. Also, if your argument involves a sarcastic smiley, that's generally a sign that you're the baddie.

(Sorry but you seem to not understand the subtlety of my even my post and seem to need it spelt out in baby language.) - Top tip - when patronising others, try to make sure that the sentence makes sense.

I liked seeing the tortured CE strutting his stuff.
Full on acting with attitude.

What I find fascinating as to the cause of this latest bout of the RTD v SM debate is that the Xmas Day episode was so atypical of a Moffat episode. It was different and in some respects, how the Moffat fans who feel let down by the episode can now appreciate how an RTD Era fan like myself have been feeling over the last two years. Maybe those fans should get used to that feeling for when Moffat does eventually leave and the show for them will never seem the same way again. This is not a criticism of Moffat fans or thier opinions, jus pointing out that if this criticism of the Xmas Episode is this bad now, what's it gonna be like when a new showrunner takes over?!

Depending on how well RTD's career takes off in the US, he could well be coaxed back to this side of the pond.
Maybe.

Moff era superior. End of.

I think things rather depend on how his partner responds to treatment at the moment as to what happens in the future.


In your opinion not in mine, both RTD and Moff have their faults, both have good points. It's just which you prefer personally - when RTD was show runner DW was must see live TV, the last series it's been a couple of days before we've seen it and haven't watched any back a second time.

MS is a brilliant Dr (as were CE and DT) - but I'm finding SMs storylines repeative now and they don't have the WOW factor for me. Also I liked all of RTDs assistants but can't warm to Amy at all - though I like Amelia and Rory.