Those were just examples of the point I was making about the often kiddy feel to the RTD era. The aforementioned episodes Partners in Crime and The End of Time are further examples of how childish and cringeworthy that era could be (IMO), and they came much later than series 1.

For the record I think the SM era is childish and cringeworthy in places too (though arguably to a lesser degree). The fishfingers and custard scene springs to mind.

Both eras have their pros and cons, but I must admit it did take me a while to warm to SM's Who.

The Peter Kay episode was series 2 BTW.

This is one argument I'll never get. How the hell is SM's Who "childish"? I mean, let's weigh up the facts here. That fish fingers and custard scene was in his FIRST EPISODE. It was just a bit of harmless fun, whilst also showing the effects of post-regenerative-trauma, and nowhere near as childish and cringeworthy as the farting slitheen.*

Under Moffat, DW's tackled a lot more darker tones and themes to a greater extent than it did in RTD's time. For example, depression. (A condition of which I suffer from). Vincent van Gogh. Superbly done, painting a good picture of the effects of the condition, while actually getting to know the person, the artist behind it. It touched my heart.*

We also have isolation, in the Girl Who Waited, which I think was done a lot stronger here than it was done in Midnight. We also have seperation being a running theme through Series 6.*

So far the only major glitch in SM's Who for me is the Rainbow Daleks. (However, they look a lot more intimidating in person has to be said).*

I'm sorry, but I can't see away that SM's Who is any less dark or any less childish than the RTD era. In fact, it's more comparable with the Hinchcliffe era in these terms.

Sheesh, even the Sonic fandom has nothing on us Whovians when it comes to raging a Civil War. :S

What so many posters fail to realise is that there is no counter argument. One merely prefers one showrunner to another.

I'm not loving the SM years, but I don't feel the need to "win" online arguments about it as it's merely my opinion and as I know people dont all like the same things, it would be foolish of me to expect everyone to feel the same.

I never quite know why Doctor Who fans have to be so argumentative in their opinions. If we don't like a showrunner, another will come along to change everything...

what stands out a mile his tweets about sherlock you can see he really enjoys tweeting about the show and whats been going on putting it together.

He comes across as a sensible bloke I think he knows when the time is right he wont have a problem walking away from DW because the key difference between the two shows.With Sherlock he set the his own bar.As the Ratings thread shows yet again its going back to previous DW Christmas specials etc.

His Tweets about DW are a lot more Guarded.My sister Drives me nuts because she was a DT Fan who just happened to then watch DW,and sadly thats been a new Factor in the Drwho Viewership.no matter if everything was as perfect as possible it still wouldnt be right because DT is no longer there.

I guess only he knows how much the negative feedback does affect him.But we all know he will never please everyone and thats something he either accepts or it starts affecting his outlook on the series.

In the RTD era I did feel pretty much the same through the entire run.Under SM theres been some Episodes ive totally loved then others struggled watching till the end.This years Series I think provided some of the best Sci-fi for a long long time.Good man goes to war being the stand out for me.

Maybe a mistake on SM's part making people aware he was getting a bit fedup of Negative feedback.RTD I think took it more in his Stride.

I completely understand why people are so pissed off with Doctor Who because when it returned in 2005 it was revamped a cool, edgy and even at times sexy and very with it in terms of current trends as well as high budget and reasonably good looking cast then when RTD left it has become so much sci-fi and has lost that.

And in the process, the people that started to get into in those 4 series are likely to be let down as the show has changed direction quite a lot. Rather like Torchwood, when it started it was sexy, edgy, classy then it kind of steered from that and just lost so much emotion wit random killings.

I mean it's great that both shows expanded but I can see why the people who came in at that time liked it.

This was the first year since the comeback I didnt watch the special as I just have no interest, for me my fav coupling was Tennant and Tate, I found them personally very mutli demension as actors and recently going through the series I still get touched by Catherine's acting...now I find the show full of too many children and younger actors and aimed too much at children to enjoy it. The xmas special was the final straw for me so I gave it a miss and didnt miss it at all.

I woudlnt say bring back RTD at all I dont care, theres still the dvds and there'll be other cool shows on tv in future!

I couldn't agree more (aside from the fact that I like Moffat's Who ).

I've no problem with people disagreeing with me or disliking something I like. That's part of life. I hate Eastenders, but I accept there are loads of people who love it. There's no need to look down on those who do like it with some superiority complex.

One thing I would say is that most Doctor Who fans aren't argumentative in their opinions. It's only a small minority, but they just happen to be very vocal. They also attract a lot of attention, as such views can be quite insulting to anyone who disagrees.

Plus, the internet is a place where views can be hard to interpret - so what comes across as a needlessly excessive viewpoint might actually be little more than a simple opinion worded badly.

Ultimately, Doctor Who is a show that embraces change in a way almost no other show does. It would be impossible to be a long-term fan if you couldn't also embrace change. I honestly believe that most fans are open to the change and are accepting of it. It's only a few who feel the need to insult everyone else for not agreeing with their minority viewpoint.

Most fans can find good in every era.

For me the problem is more that Matt Smith's Doctor is incessantly childish rather than the storylines themselves. If the lead character is childish then clearly that impacts on how the entire programme is perceived.

I can assure you it wasn't.

That's honesty.

Oh Lord --- firstly I think reputation should count for nowt and its down to whether somebody can act. IMHO CE was very good but when I compare MS and DT I find Matts take , believe it or not, a lot subtler than Davids incessant gurning.

But thats personal choice.

On a more crucial matter I note that we have somebody who has joined a couple of months ago , already in the 1000+ range on posts and is generally insulting and condescending to others.

Its a cert that you regularly get banned for your approach or , having been found out and dis-regarded for your generally impolite manner by others, you change your name frequently.

I recognise your style as a serial antagoniser ( without even looking I bet that you have posted tons on X-Factor and I'm a Celeb because thats where you caused most problems under your previous incarnations) and suggest that you really need to act as mature as you supposedly say you are.

I'd respectfully disagree --it was RTD who took to calling his critics ming-mongs and generally showed a complete disregard even for well founded criticism. He truly seemed to loathe a lot of the fan base.

I think you need a thick skin to be a show runner but unfortunately there also appears to be a certain arrogance from both Moff and RTD where they just don't get that some of the things they do are going to turn a lot of fans off.

My problem with Moffat's era is that every episode seems to be the same recycled childish nonsense. Quite glad Amy and Rory are leaving too because they've become boring and their storyline has come to a close. That's why in my opinion series 6 was a failure, because it lacked any difference that made it stand out from series 5. I respect that some fans like Moff, but he's not my cup of tea. Hopefully he will move on soon.

Personally, I don't think anyone on here has ever heard of the saying 'to each their own'.

I love Who in all forms (except poor old Sylvester) but have to admit that I am really missing Dt & RtD

My uncle has watched DW all of his life and hates both the RTD and SM eras and his exact words about Moffat where he his trying to be clever and re create Who from the 60's to 80's and it is not going to work.

Now that came from a Doctor Who expert.

Define 'Doctor Who expert' please - what makes their opinion any better than anyone else's, even one who has only started watching the show? I don't think anyone's opinion should be respected more because they've watched the show for years or been a huge fan, any more than someone who is only just discovering the show and has a differing viewpoint on it.

I know I loved the RTD era and he hated it.

I've watched Who since episode 1 in 1963 and I'm just grateful we have it at all again now. I enjoy the echoes of the previous Doctors Matt brings which to be honest I didn't get with Tennant, he seemed almost like a new character rather than a continuation of the others. Matt's portrayal is on another level entirely. I loved series 1 and thought there were some superb episodes and some not very good ones in 2-4 though I much prefer 5 & 6. It just goes to show we're all different

Firstly this is all my opinion but I have found the Moffat era slightly cold, and I have not liked the way the season arcs have been handled especially season 6. Do I find it childish, no and there have been episodes (in S6) I really liked,

Let's Kill Hitler
The Girl Who Waited
Day of the Moon

but disliked
Curse of the Black Spot
Night Terrors
Closing Time

and I loved The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe

A below par Christmas Special doesn't mean writing off Moffat. Most of RTD's were duds. Interestingly, the best two are Matt's and DT's first Christmas episodes.

Well, that would make me a Doctor Who expert too ...but I don't think so. We all have our individual preferences and I loved RTD until the Specials and Moffat apart from this year's Christmas Special.

How do you define "expert" I too have watched Doctor Who since the very first episode but if you were to aske me in which episode a specific character said a specific thing i almost certainly wouldn't know. But what i can say is that having lived through all eleven incarnations of The Doctor, not to mention untold numbers of producers, writers and directors, I can give MY opinion on them. I think anyone who just says RTD was crap and SM is a genius is being narrow minded. They both have their faults as well as having had their Great moments. Likewise the people who now slag of DT but think MS is the greatest thing since sliced bread are also missing the point. Each Doctor/actor is different. Personally I prefered DT but still enjoy MS's performance. I prefered RTD's vision but can apreciate some of SM's ideas. At the end of the day slagging off other peoples opinions gets you no where. As another poster has already put it "To each their own"
Merry Christmas.

VERY well said, agree 100%

Totally agree.

for me RTD's weakest moments.

Having Martha take up the lovesick mantle left by rose.
it ruined her character by Episode2.

Rose coming back again and again when she finally did leave it lost any meaning.

I hope It wont be the case but with Amy and Rory coming back only to leave again it just seemed like a perfect time to have a fresh start with no 'event' parting of the ways of the companion.

DT's Dr went to such a dark place in those final specials before he did leave, the doctor had to be pulled back.He really was in a dark dark place.The Emotion MS can injected into the doctor is just utterly amazing.

Character issue wise I started off loving Amy not very keen on Rory.But now its vice versa Cant wait for Amy to leave but will be gutted seeing Rory go.Thats the Brilliant thing about Dr who Very few shows have the power to make you change how you feel about Certain characters.Its a trait that Merlin now follows and IMHO shows are better for having that element within them.

The thing to remember is that by its very nature Doctor Who will always be changing, because the Doctor changes.

But throughout all the incarnations, whilst there are disappointments there are also high points that add to the legend##And one thing that neither Moffatt or RTD have done is mess with the canon --its still the Doctor --and he'sstill magnificent:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCCMg-rcCQk

With all due respect, I find this post slightly offensive, being an 18 year old boy now I actually found RTD's era to be very emotionally straining and actually very brilliant. That said, I also highly enjoy the slightly darker edge that Moffat's taking the show in and for me, Matt is a fantastic Doctor. Whilst David Tennant was for me was absolutely incredible, I find that Matt is to borrow a phrase I've seen "My Doctor", the Doctor I find the most enduring. Yes Moffat had an off day when he wrote this special however it was very different from the last series and if every time RTD wrote a sub-standard Christmas episode we called for his head then I'm surprised he didn't resign sooner...