Sorry, Muttley, I didn't mean to disagree with you. Clearly you are right and I am wrong.

(Although, possibly, your rather rude response is reflective of the issue I'm talking about).

*sigh* was that really necessary? I just think your making sweeping statements about the views of people on this forum that aren't really fair. To say that most or even many people on here that were fans of the Moffat era were making negative comments about the RTD era is a huge generalisation and does not tally with the way this board had ever been, and to I'm just suggesting that to some extent that is a result of your own preference for the RTD era over the Moffay era. I don't feel that is an unfair observation to make, tbh.

If your able to make a counter argument that demonstrates there was indeed some wide spread hatred for the RTD era on here at some point after he left the show, then by all means make your case rather than making a sarcastic comment in relation to a perfecly reasonable post which wasn't rude in the slightest.

Muttley, seriously? You show complete disprespect for someone else's opinion - and then behave as thought you are bored when they criticise your conduct on this forum.

Like I said, its almost like you're trying to prove my point. I respect your opinion, its just a shame you had to try to undermine my opinion by making a personal criticism.

I've challenged your viewpoint of an issue because I think you have made unfair generalisations about people that post on this forum in general, there is no disrespect of your right to hold an opinion, just me stating why I don't agree with it. and I don't understand how I am acting like I am bored.


Prove your point? About what exactly? I'm not trying to stop you making constructive critisms of the Moffat era at all and I am certainly not making negative comments about the RTD era at all! The only thing I have done in my recent posts in is thread is say I think you are wrong about the tone of this forum in recent years and why that might be!

Awe, you've made Ste Moffat sound all flowery

Lol! That's the trouble with my iPad and predictive text...

Muttley, I posted a comment that I felt the majority of forum members were Moff supporters and had said an awful lot to diss the RTD/Tennant years.

You responded with a post that you disagreed.

I responded with a broader explanation about my post and my opinion - no personal comments about you whatsoever. Just a response to your post.

You responded with the following: "I have to say it seems to me you are trying to convince yourself of something you want to be true because it jives with you own personal opinion."

Believe it or not, Muttley, that was rude and personal. Disagreeing with my opinion is cool. That's the point of these forums - to discuss and, sometimes, disagree. But it was rude and disrespectful to try and undermine my opinion with that comment.

And what was the "*sigh* was that really necessary?" comment about, if not to indicate you found my response tiresome?

I was not trying to undermine you opinion just suggesting that the fact that you by your own admission have not been a fan of the current era may skewer your perception of what you are seeing on these boards somewhat. I am sorry if you felt otherwise.



I included the sigh because in my opinion you were misreprenting what I had said in my prior post which is frustrating.

Apology accepted.

Sorry Mutley I have to disagree with you there. Since SM & MS took over there has def been an increase in posters rubbishing the RTD DT era. When you look back over his time on Dr Who (RTD) there were not many posters rubbishing him. Compare that with when SM took over and there was a definate increase in negative posting. I can even remember some people saying that MS was the greatest Doctor ever and that was after about 3 episodes had been shown !

I'd suggest we avoid such loaded phrases as "rubbishing the RTD/DT era", as even those who have criticised wouldn't agree to be represented that way.

Secondly, while RTD was producing Who, any criticisms would have been about individual episodes, and any comparison would be between individual RTD stories and series, which would be unlikely to stir up such strong reactions. I certainly clearly remember many people making criticism of writing, plotting and acting while RTD episodes were being created, just as many as we now get while SM episodes are being shown.

it's only now that we have two eras to compare and contrast that the opinions will tend to get polarised - those who miss what RTD brought to the table will dislike Moffat's stories more because of it, and those who prefer the Moff's writing style will appreciate that he has different strengths than Russell.

Thirdly, these sort of broad comparisons and criticisms are always going to be more in evidence between series, when there's no specifics to discuss, and the majority of posters aren't present. Perhaps the strongly polarised fans are a large proportion now (although I'm not personally convinced that's true), but that doesn't mean that they represent forum denizens or viewers generally.

Hmmm! Well without getting into too much controversy.....
I shall state my opinion (as nicely as possible)

I much preferred the RTD era - I have all the box-sets (well, series 1-4 anyway.....didn't much care about the 'Specials').
I have seen series 5 & 6 - but never re-watched them, nor have I bought any DVD's. I prefer to buy 'Classic' DVD's instead.
Nuff Said!
I shall look forward to series 7....and give it a chance!

Well said

BIB - for me, it's more complex than that. I would say that SM's writing was pretty much flawless in Series 1-4, at least up there with (if not even better than) the best of RTD's work. That's the SM writing style I prefer - and, considering that he supposedly wasn't overwritten in the way some other writers were, I don't for the life of me understand why his plotting, once so good, has deteriorated into a string of questions which are only half-answered, and why we have one of the most unsympathetic companions ever. My problem is that SM appears to have forgotten what his strengths actually are - and I can only conclude that Julie Gardner is required back in Cardiff ASAP to get the best out of SM, as she did previously in Series 1-4 ...

I think Moffs main problem possibly lies in the dogma that nowadays every programme has to have some kind of arc.

I personally don't believe that, I think that in the main a lot of programmes that I have seriously enjoyed have let themselves down in the finale (IMHO) :-

Buffy (Later Seasons)
Lost
Heroes (Season1)
last Seasons Who

Sometimes the journey is a lot more enjoyable than the destination and tying yourself down with a story arc doesn't always help.

If, as suspected, a lot of next season will be stand alone episodes , we may well see a lot better stuff from Moff.

Guys, you are both knowledgable an I enjoy reading both you opinions and ironically, you are both arguing about something you have similar opinions about, but just said in different ways. neither of you is disprespectful, and neither of you have conduct issues that I have noticed. You both love Who and both have strong opinions on the same subjects, and thank god for that, otherwise wouldn't life be boring

Now pack it in before I bang your heads together

That's probably because Matt was immediately stunning!
Maybe the growing 'unrest' -if you like - with RTD's era was because it was dragged out so much, the Specials were pretty dire, and we got the farewell tour that became less and less appealing for some of us as it went on and on. There were some superb episodes in RTD's era and some real dross (which were criticised at the time; let's face it, there's never been an episode everyone loves, there's always someone who doesn't) and it seemed like his time was up. It happens to everyone on the show and has for nearly 50 years now, sooner or later it's time to go. Whether people can ever agree on when is something else

See I find this quite interesting as its history repeating. I endured pretty much the same as you during the RTD era. Anything I posted that was remotely negative was attacked by fans of the RTD era. In fact, this was the case for many other posters too as I recall. Most of these posters simply stopped posting or post infrequently now.

So it's interesting that this is now happening one generation added and it's RTD era fans now feeling oppressed by the next generation of the show. No doubt this will happen again in a few years when the next era of the show begins.

Hopefully its just your opinion being attacked. It's when it becomes more personal that it becomes a problem. That's the point when I largely gave up posting. But hang around, fandom is like the weather and opinions change very frequently

Both eras have had strengths and weaknesses for me. I'd say, just from my personal viewpoint, Moffat's ear has been far more consistent in giving me episodes to enjoy but RTD's era was more up a down - a few painful lows but a few excellent highs that excel the majority of the Moffat era (I don't think anything since has beaten Waters of Mars, for example, and Midnight/Turn Left/Silence In the Library/Forest of The Dead/Girl In The Fireplace/Blink were stunning pieces of work).

I really struggled with Who through new series 2 and 3. Series 1 was a good base to work from and I loved series 4. Series 5 was good but series 6 lost it's way at times though individual episodes (The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon/The Doctor's Wife/A Good Man Goes To War/The Girl Who Waited) were very good.

This is a great point. I loved T. Baker, but he was held on too long, I disliked Davis and couldn't wait for him to leave. This didn't stop me from watching and overall enjoying the program. This is of course just my opinion. I almost forgot to add that.

I have to agree with the OP.

It is purely MY personal opinion, but feel that to date, Moffat writes best when dealing with the sole individual episodes, rather than overseeing a season long storyline.

RTD was better at seeing the overall picture and making circles complete.

Nothing wrong with Matt Smith as the Doctor. I thought he didn't hit his stride until the first christmas special but now equals Tennant as playing the part with the potential to be even better (and yes, this is in part due to Moffat).

I thought the recent series was a touch ambitious by Moffat and failed to tie up all the pieces, and the explanation of how the doctor survived was always going to be a let down after there was so much 'hype' about the death.

Still, I do like the way in which moffat writes for the interaction between the Doctor and River, in fact for most of the main characters.

BUT, lets see where moffat takes the programme next year although I do fear for the inclusion of the 'question', "Who is Doctor Who" and I hope this is not addressed or answered (or attempted to be solved) otherwise this may do a 'Twin Peaks' for the show (you know, once we knew who killed Laura Palmer, the show nosedived).

Still, I will continue watching